Post-mortem: 130 to 88 in 6 months... what worked, what did not.

[johnclayton1982]

On Stack and Tilt:  The more I read about this, the more I think I may have not understood and just had a bad experience.  After reading a few forum threads on it, my instructor wasn't listed anywhere, and some of the stuff he was teaching wasn't the same.  I don't understand it, so I'm not going to post his name and hurt his rep.  He is one of a few pros that teach at City Park driving range in New Orleans.

Quote:

where are you playing out of? also how are you putting? -to break 80 have to be expecting to make almost everything inside of 8 feet

I play a few courses in New Orleans.  Chateau, Audobon Park, English Turn and the TPC mainly, City Park and Lakewood occasionally.  Putting is widely variable, but I average around 37 putts per round.  Making anything inside 8 feet sounds impossible - hopefully I can shave the strokes off other places, because its going to really be hard for me to get to that skill level on the green...

Quote:

You may have explained this and I just missed it.  What did you consider to be regulation for getting within 100 yards?

Par-1.  Or, another words, putting yourself in position to get up and down in 3 for a bogey.  Hitting the green in "bogey regulation" was just a mental aid to help me stay around 90 instead of ballooning into the 100s hitting for greens I can't reach.  As i score better, I'll revise "green in regulation" down - short par 4s might go to 2, for example, long par 4s stay at bogey.  I found its a good way to improve to a set a "par" for yourself (now, for me, 90) and lower that "par" as you get better.  It keeps you positive, for example, after I shot an 88 last week, i shot "-2", etc...

Quote:

Two items that help me from fairway bunkers if I may:  1.)  find one to three clubs you are comfy with out of fairway bunkers depending on lips-distances  personally, I'm very comfy with a 140yd. 8 iron; comfy with a 160 yd. 6iron  and reasonaly comfy with 170yd 5 iron---all are 10 yds. shorter then normal distances  2.) quiet your lower half - 3/4 quarter swing

I'm really glad you posted this.  Yesterday, during the Saturday round, I had an 83 going onto 18.  Hit a long drive into a fairway bunker on the right.  Grabbed a 3 hybrid, thought "quiet, smooth, 3/4 swing, hit ball first", swung, and *smack* hit it on the nails about 190 down the fairway (thats a good 3 hybrid for me), and parred the hole.  Unfortunately, I ruined the round in a horrid way - on a par 5, i reached the fringe in 2 shots (this is really good for me), then *Bladed a chip into the water from about 6 feet off the green*.  If I just two put that I woulda been at 85.

Quote:

The best putting tip was from this forum: the balls breaks on the way to the apex so add a little more break.

Could you (or someone) explain this a little?

Quote:

I decided to take golf more seriously this year and have been working very hard to improve.  We have had some similar experiences (lessons, Phil dvd, studying course management etc...)

Anything specific you might have done that really worked for you?  What is your practice regiment like?

Quote:

Anyway, to the OP this was a great read. I was thinking about detailing my 2 year journey from 100+ to 79 (which just happened last week...woo). But yours seems more impressive having done what you did in 6 months.

I would love to read what you did, as it seems the lower you go the harder it is to go yet lower.  Getting into the 70s is an amazing accomplishment.

Quote:

I think the comments are primarily motivated by the fact that he only tried it for one lesson. Sometimes a simple grip change takes more than that to get comfortable with. Given the S&T; enthusiasm on the board, that's low hanging fruit.

Yeah, in retrospect, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it as not working.  I didn't mean it as a condemnation of the method, especially since i don't understand it.

Quote:

Just out of curiousty, what tees do you typically play from? I'm a big fan of the new Tee It Forward approach, and feel much less guilty playing from the tees closest to 6,000 yards instead of trying to macho up and play back around 6,400-6,500. How about you?

The courses here have four sets of tees - red, white, blue, gold - red women, white/blue - men, gold - tournament.  It depends on the course - on most, the blue tees, regular men.  On a particular course that is really long (TPC Louisiana), the whites.  That said, the two courses i play on almost all the time arn't all that long so I can get away with it (6350 and 6500 yards, which is in my comfort zone I think).

Thanks to all for the support.  Any other suggestions to go from 90 to 80 I'd love to hear them, but it seems mostly to be about short game and up and downs, especially if you arn't the longest hitter.

[djackson89]

I believe what he means about the putt breaking before the Apex, is that most amateur players will look at a putt and say, "oh it looks like it might break about 18 inches at this hill/apex here" but what that does is it doesn't account for the slight sloping of the green before the apex that they read. So essentially once you make your read, you should give it a little extra to account for the slight movement before the Apex.

Phil goes over this in his DVD and it really helped me. I was definately under estimating the movement of 90% of my putts, now I've at least got a better chance at hitting the line.

[darkhunter139]

Originally Posted by cody west

where are you playing out of? also how are you putting? -to break 80 have to be expecting to make almost everything inside of 8 feet

Everything inside of 8 feet? Not even the pro's make almost everything inside of 8 feet do they?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by darkhunter139

Everything inside of 8 feet? Not even the pro's make almost everything inside of 8 feet do they?

"Expect to make everything inside of eight feet" is not the same as "actually make everything inside of eight feet."

[johnclayton1982]

I went to my instructor for a putting lesson, and that helped.  He suggested that with my stroke I use a heel-shafted putter with the weight to the toe (I'm not sure how much value this has, but he has really been good up to now so no reason to doubt him - and he told me to get the driver fitting).  I'm still using a face-balanced center-shafted mallet.  I hit a few heel shafted in Dicks after the round and it felt better, but still not great.  My instructor told me that if I want a perfect putter to get an Edel fitting and referred to someone in my area he says is great.  I am on the fence on this though.  have any of y'all had any experience with this?  Its expensive, but my pro said the putter would last for a long time and the price (~$600 according to my pro) is not unreasonable considering what I spend per month on rounds.  Anyone use an Edel or like the process?

[darkhunter139]

Congrats on the 85! I am in the same position as you with my putting, averaging about 37 per round.  I have really enjoyed reading your thread.

[kilbyman]

I can't wait to try your tracking system for par = 90!  My practice needs some direction.

[Chief Broom]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

I went to my instructor for a putting lesson, and that helped.  He suggested that with my stroke I use a heel-shafted putter with the weight to the toe (I'm not sure how much value this has, but he has really been good up to now so no reason to doubt him - and he told me to get the driver fitting).  I'm still using a face-balanced center-shafted mallet.  I hit a few heel shafted in Dicks after the round and it felt better, but still not great.  My instructor told me that if I want a perfect putter to get an Edel fitting and referred to someone in my area he says is great.  I am on the fence on this though.  have any of y'all had any experience with this?  Its expensive, but my pro said the putter would last for a long time and the price (~$600 according to my pro) is not unreasonable considering what I spend per month on rounds.

My advice would be to go to a local flea market or spend a saturday morning scouting out yardsales looking for a used heel shafted putter like your pro described.  I bet you could find one pretty easily (local golf shops also might have some used putters cheap) for a couple of bucks.  This way you can try out a different style putter with more toe hang to see how you like it (even an old Ping Anser has a lot more toe hang than a center shafted mallet and those can be had cheap).  If this style putter fits your stroke better, then you might want to spring for a more expensive model.

[johnclayton1982]

Update: Shot an 82 today with 34 putts.  The 70s are getting close.  I can feel it.  For me, i usually hit 6-10 greens a round.  its all about the putter.  One of these days I'm going to get a 31 or 32 putt day and hit the 70s.  I just know it.  Also, as I will explain in my article, I average about 225 off the tee.  Just because you arn't long doesn't mean you can't play in the 70s.  You just have to be smart about it and be good with 5-7 irons.

I also got fitted and am awaiting my new Edel putter.  I realized I've spent $310 on putters and the fitted Edel was $300 (waived fitting fee if you buy from them).  So, I can get a putter made just for me or keep buying and trying putters.  Seemed an obvious choice for $300.  When i can get into the 70s three times in a row I plan to do a how I got there thread.  However, I would recommend an Edel fitting to anyone who struggles with the flatstick.  My fitter was great and just holding the stock model it felt perfect.  Using just the flat grey fitting tool putter once he got the lines drawn and the weight right felt amazing.

[ironsmiketyson]

Thanks for the post.  Love reading posts of this type.  Super informative and helpful.

[Jeremy Hammer]

Excellent thread, thanks for taking the time to summarize everything for us. Many helpful tips in there for me.

[inthehole]

this was my favorite thread ... bookmarked it.    Was just curious how the OP ended the season ... was there a 70's ?

[JetFan1983]

Yea, I just added thumbs-up #17 to it. Hilarious amount of thumbs.

[Lofty Lefty]

This great post reads like a cut-down version of John Richardson's book "Dream On" - One hackers challenge to break par in one year.

And you know what? I'm sick of reading about it. I'm gonna do it my-bloody-self! (Engages game face).

It all begins tomorrow....

Thanks for the inspiration.

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

Was just curious how the OP ended the season ... was there a 70's ?

In Louisiana, we get to play year round (which is great).  I've shot 78 twice, but both times on a really easy, low-rated course (though par 72).  I had a really nice run before the thanksgiving holiday and got my handicap into single digits.  Unfortunately, when the last four rounds (84, 85, 91 (ugh), 79) hit the computer I'm going to probably be back in double digits (and one of the 78s falls off).  My best round this season was an 80 on TPC Louisiana from the Champions Tees (middle tees).  Long, tough course.

I'm going to write a similar post about high 80s to high 70s when the high seventies get more regular for me, but a few initial thoughts:

1. It took me about 7 months to go from 130 to 88.  Its taken me about 6 months to go from 88 to 82.  It gets alot harder to save strokes as you go down.

2.  Getting to 90 was all about consistent contact and not making mistakes.  Getting to 79 is all about the short game, at least it has been for me.

3.  The Pelz putting bible and the Pelz short game bible are great, and have accounted for alot of improvement.

Thanks for the kind words on the original post.  Golf is a maddening game but its really fun.

[inthehole]

nice job & quite an accomplishment !    I've made it from a rank beginner (120+) to my best score of 90 in just over a year (tallied up my log book - played 71 times to date since late April of this year).     I feel like I've left so many shots out there - I know I have the ability to shoot consistently in the 80's when I can quit hitting my wedges fat & tighten up my short game (trying to hit proper divots is maddening, but sooooooo rewarding when done right).       It's the most addicting game I've ever played - gonna be such a brutal golf-less winter I'm afraid ...

[johnclayton1982]

Check out Pelz's short game bible.  His 3x4 wedge system has really been good for me.  My 11:30 SW layup yardage is right about 68 yards.  Its pretty comforting to know that if you hit an errant tee shot, you can play back to the fairway and probably take double out of the equation because you know from X yards you'll be close.  If I'm in trouble (or could be in trouble) and don't have a 5 iron or better into the green, I shoot the flag, shoot the ground until I get 70 yards out, and lay up.  It gives me a chance at par, but usually assures bogey.  I've found two things pretty important to shoot consistently good golf (this is just me, not anyone else mind you):

1.  A consistent miss off the tee.  My miss is a weak slice that misses right and short.  So, I aim across the fairway using Tom Watson's goalpost method - imagine a goalpost across the fairway - I hit at the left edge.  Since I consistently miss right and short, my bad tee shots are not nearly as bad as when I lined up straight.  Develop a swing with a consistent miss and minimize it via course management.

2.  A rock-solid layup yardage with a wedge.  Mine is about 68-70 yards.  If I get in trouble, I play to 70 yards out and cap my exposure at bogey.

Basically, what has worked for me is minimizing mistakes, consistent contact, dont be afraid to layup and take bogey, and a good short game.  My scorecard is usually all pars and bogey with a birdie here or there at a par 5.

[inthehole]

Thx for the tip - that'll give me some winter reading