Post-mortem: 130 to 88 in 6 months... what worked, what did not.

[johnclayton1982]

The book is too long.  The first chapter, about why short game really matters, is good.  The pitching chapter is good.  The sand chapter is great.  The 3x4 wedge system chapter is worth 5 strokes.  The equipment discussion at the end is good.  I dropped my 4 iron and 5 wood and never missed them.  The rest of the book (about 250 pages focused on incredibly specific shots) isn't that good.

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

The book is too long.  The first chapter, about why short game really matters, is good.  The pitching chapter is good.  The sand chapter is great.  The 3x4 wedge system chapter is worth 5 strokes.  The equipment discussion at the end is good.  I dropped my 4 iron and 5 wood and never missed them.  The rest of the book (about 250 pages focused on incredibly specific shots) isn't that good.

Thanks - dunno about dropping my 4i though ... definitely my favorite iron.   Assume you replaced yours with a 4h ?   Agree with the 5w - my 3h replaced that earlier this year & don't miss it.

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

Thanks - dunno about dropping my 4i though ... definitely my favorite iron.   Assume you replaced yours with a 4h ?   Agree with the 5w - my 3h replaced that earlier this year & don't miss it.

No, I replaced it with a wedge.  Same with 5w.  Pelz's basic argument is that for players at our level there is no functional difference between a 3 hybrid and a 4 hybrid.  He has some studies to back it up - that people are too inconsistent for their long irons for the difference to really matter all that much.  Whereas, with wedges, extra wedges can save you strokes.  Its very rare your 4h saves you strokes (even if you hit a great shot, you'll still probably 2 putt, which isn't that much of a reward for a great shot.  But a great shot with a wedge is a 1 putt always.  So with wedges great shots = saved strokes). The chapter on equipment discusses all of this, but I think it makes alot of sense.  I'd be willing to bet you that if you played a round where you had driver and then nothing below a 6 iron, you'd score the same or better than you score now.  Pelz has numerous studies to back this up - mid-cappers do not need alot of long clubs.  1 or 2 is fine.  They arn't accurate enough with them to save strokes.

[inthehole]

Hmmmm, that approach really does get one thinking outside the box.     I'm totally down with only carrying one hybrid - came to that realization this summer & sold off 3 Adams hybrids I had accumulated.      I would very much like to get my 58* wedge back in the bag ... based on this approach, I might drop the 5i & still keep the 4i (could choke up on it when I need to shave a few yards off it).

[johnclayton1982]

Basically, his system is pretty neat.  You have three backswing distances - 730, 9, and 1130.  You do not do a wind up or weight shift, just a dead hands shoulder swing.  Each of those backswing distances produce a different distance for your shot for each wedge.  So, 4 wedges times 3 distances = 12 easily repeatable distances.  The system holds up remarkably well under pressure.  I love the system.  Looking at your bag, I'd think about ditching the driving iron and either four iron or hybrid for two more wedges.

Think about your last round.  Where did you lose your strokes?  What if you didn't have to "trust" yourself to get the correct speed / hit for short game shots but instead had a pre-set distance?

Think about hitting your 9 iron.  You don't worry about distance control, because you know how far it goes.  The problem with wedges is, you don't know.  You try to "feel" it, which is horrible under pressure.  Pelz advocates "building" a 9 iron by backswing length - you don't ahve to worry about distance.

It only took me about two weeks of practice to see an incredible improvement - its so predictable!  My 9 oclock backswing 60* goes about 29 yards with very little run out.  My 11 oclock backswing 56* goes about 65 yards with about 3 yards of runout.  So when I shoot that laser on the pin and its 69.3 yards (happened last round), I'm licking my chops, because I know exactly what to hit.

EDIT: problem is, with only two wedges, you only get six distances (2 wedges times 3 backswing distances). Four seems to be optimal.  I played five (a 48*) for a while, but it was redundant and I missed my 3 wood (had just a 3 hybrid for long shots).

The system also makes laying up alot more palatable because you have a good shot to get up and down from the fairway if you know your distances.  I layup all the time - probably 3 or 4 times a round - even when I'm not in trouble because I can't reach the green in one.  The system gives you the confidence to leave yourself a short game shot.

The question is is it better to have more options from outside 180 yards or from inside 100 yards.  I say inside, because (1) you can save a stroke (up and down in one putt) and (2) from outside 180 yards you usually still need 2 to get down.

[johnclayton1982]

Also alot of these "daily deal" golf sites have insane deals on wedges that come in a set.  Pelz has a rant in his book about not using wedges from your iron set.  I got four cleveland cg15s, matching set, from one of those daily deal sites for $214.99.  You can find four wedge sets of vokeys on ebay for about $200.

[inthehole]

Thx - really sounds like an interesting system & a new approach to the game (for me).      I am going to find a way to get my 58* back in the bag & will read the book over the winter.    Believe it or not, my driving iron gets almost as much use as my driver - many of the courses I play are very tight & I have so much more control with the driving iron than the driver - it's about 30 yards shorter, but the feeling of confidence I have in making the fairway (much more than the 3w)  is worth keeping it in the bag - really love that club.      I hit the hybrid alot of par 5's for the 2nd shot to get me into wedge range, so thats gotta stay.    I think I could live without the 5i & keep the 4i ... would make room for a lob wedge.

One question about this system - I like to open the club face sometimes if I need height for tight lies - how does this fit into the system ... would seem that you couldn't open the club face as it would throw off your programmed yardages ?      Thx again for the info !

[boston blackie]

Very comprehensive post - bought the books, renting the strategies video.  Just wondering how to get the distance consistent on my wedges.

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

One question about this system - I like to open the club face sometimes if I need height for tight lies - how does this fit into the system ... would seem that you couldn't open the club face as it would throw off your programmed yardages ?

There will occasionally be shots where you cant use the system and have to rely on feel (although the swing doesn't change).  Ive found, playing with a 64* wedge, that having to open it more than that is pretty rare.

Quote:

Just wondering how to get the distance consistent on my wedges.

My short game is a wierd hybrid between Mickelson and Pelz.  I use Pelz's 3x4 system for calculating distance, but I do not use his grip or "finesse hands" swing.  I use Mickelson's hinge and hold swing with Pelz's 3x4 strategy.  I very rarely hit a short game shot when I'm not swinging *hard* - I just take a very short backswing sometimes.  It works well, or at least *alot* better than the "practice a bunch and pray you hit it the right distance on the course" approach.  To get the distances, I just hit wedges with real balls (range balls can decieve you) late at a course and shot them with a rangefinder.  Its not that hard to do, and it gives you a good probability you wont hit horrible wedge shots.

I've found one of the most important skills to develop is the trust to take a very short backswing, hit the ball hard with an accelerating blow, and go to a full follow-through.  I'm not a pro, but I've found deceleration and trying to match distance to swing speed / tempo is a disaster usually. Even on 10 yard pitches, I'm swinging hard - I just barely take the club back.

[Golf Addict]

Good Post thanks for sharing!

[inthehole]

I've managed to mirror the OP's goal ... took me 14 months instead of 6 to get down to consistently shooting around 88 though.      Funny, the more I play this game, the more I love it ... never had that feeling with any other endeavor I've been involved with.     I think it's because improvement is so quantifiable & measurable ...

[Th3R00st3r]

Sorry to bring this one back up, but I just found this old thread that was linked in another thread I was reading goo.gl/cpKmA

This is a great post as I was playing into the 110's a year ago and am currently in the mid 90's, and struggling to stay there. Thanks for the write up. It was excellent read and gives a good idea what to do if you want to get better.

Determination and Focus!

[Chipless]

This is such a great thread!  I am how the original poster has progressed over the last ten or eleven months, since this thread was originally started.  Judging by his handicap, it looks like he has continued to improve...

[Timothy Voyles]

Love this thread, sticky?

I have been doing some of the improvement stuff here without the reading and dvd help, mostly just hitting a ton of shots and trying to find what works. I really hope more people find this thread and get direction before just heading out and trying to do it alone. Last year I beat a lot of balls down the range and got a ton of consistency with clubs; went from 95-105 down to 90-100. This year I have been doing a lot more focused practice, attending a weekly clinic and a ton more putting/chipping practice. I'm now down 85-95 consistently. It's early June and this thread along with a lot of good info on these forums has me inspired to keep working. End of year goal is to play 80-90 consistently.

Thanks for all this wonderful insight and info guys/gals!

[Sandy Trap]

Sub for later.  Great thread.

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

This is such a great thread!  I am how the original poster has progressed over the last ten or eleven months, since this thread was originally started.  Judging by his handicap, it looks like he has continued to improve...

Rediscovered this thread after posting up about my wedge problems.  Looks like I should re-read this every so often.

As an update, I had hoped to post up a thread going from 90s to 70s by now (year and a half) but I haven't made it there.  I am consistently shooting low 80s, and have been in the 70s 5 or 6 times since this post, but not for a while.  I am stuck on 80, 81, 82 and have been for a while (about five months).  I thought I had turned a corner about a month and a half ago when I shot a 76 on a pretty hard course.  Of course, the very next morning, thinking I had golf all figured out, I shot a 97.  Yes, a 97.  You can't take anything for granted in this game.

I also played in my first tournament and it did not go great.  I hit a tree off one tee and actually ended up behind the tee box!  So, some work to be done there.

I have decided I'll be "in the seventies" when I can shoot four consecutive 70s rounds.  I have alot to say about my improvement process to this point, but I'm not there yet.

Getting from 89 to 79 is one of the hardest things I've ever tried to do, probably as hard as starting my business.  I will get there, though, I have faith.  I thought going from 89 to 79 would be six months or so... turns out those 10 strokes are way harder than the 40 from 130 to 90.  It'll come eventually.  If I can fix my latest wedge problems I think I can do it pretty soon, but I thought that a year ago about my driver problems...

A physical training regimine I'm going to post up added, literally, 55-75 yards to my driver.  Some might say that is exaggerated, but it isn't.  Sneak preview, this book is awesome:

http://www.amazon.com/Fix-Your-Body-Swing-Revolutionary/dp/B0058M5K0A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid;=1349719242&sr;=8-1&keywords;=fix+your+body+fix+your+swing

Getting really long isn't all that hard, its all about strength, the correct shaft and center-of-clubface contact.  If you do the 12 daily exercises from that book every day for six months you will be able to hit it 260.  I am not exaggerating.  When I started the workout regimin (its about 35 mins. a day with medicine balls and flex bands) a "bomb" from me was about 225.  Now I can routinely hit it 275.  I know some won't believe this, but it is true.

The crazy part?  Going from 220 to 270, same tees, cut about, oh, 3 strokes off my score.  Its not really all that important (although it is fun to smash a 290 yard line drive off the first tee when you are randomly paired with a group :)   ).

So, hopefully I will have a new big post soon when I can shoot in the 70s, but who knows.  Its really, really hard to play consistent golf well.

[Desert Driver]

JC1982

I found this thread really interesting and I thank you for taking the time to share your experience. It has been a number of months since this first went up and I read through your comments and updates as you went along and found many common factors that I found along my own trek to improve at golf. One of the major differences though, is that my journey took much longer as I started off at a much slower pace.

I had golfed off and on since high school, mostly with friends, generally not more than four or five times a year. Enough to know that I liked it, but never with enough frequency to improve. Then by accident, literally, I ended up in a golf class at the University I was attending when I severely spained an ankle in a basketball class and was forced to transfer out to a PE class I could participate in; GOLF. So I golfed with a cast on my lower right leg for a semester. It was great fun and made me a lifetime golfer.

I would say that you have listed several basic premises that a golfer needs to incorporate in order to maximize one's ability to score well in golf.

1. Stop cheating

2. Learn how far you hit a ball with each club.

3. Make sure your equipment fits you.

4. Learn how to play the game, to score well. This is different than learning how to hit the ball.

5. Track your progress.

6. Learn how to improve in the areas that cause you trouble. Practice.

7. Set Goals.

8. Obtain a Pro to instruct.

9. Watch and learn from professionals on TV, instructional videos, etc.

Our University instructor helped us learn the basic swing and also emphasized that we needed to play by the rules and score by the rules, otherwise we would never really know if we were getting better. (Stop Cheating)

My journey to improve my scores took off about 10 years ago when my newly appointed boss at the corporation I work for took me aside and said he wanted to start golfing each Wednesday morning and wanted me to join him before work right at sunrise. We would be playing at a 9 hole municiple course. And off we went. It was rough for both of us, but other managers soon joined in and we had a nice group going out once a week. My scores for 9 holes were typically in the mid to high 50's and a par was a great treat. Getting out on a consistent basis soon had me playing a little better and before long I finally started breaking 50.

I was using some off the shelf irons at the time which I had purchased several years earlier and had trouble hitting them well consistently, it always felt like they were too short. And they were. I stumbled on this while wandering around one of the local golf stores and started chatting with one of the staff. He thought I should get fitted for clubs if I really wanted to take the next step to improve.

What a difference correctly fitting clubs made. I am a little taller than most at 6' 3" and need a little longer club shaft, 1/2" and a little more upright lie angle, about 2.5* and my swing speed fell into the stiff shaft category. Almost immediately, I was hitting the ball more accurately and further and my scores came down consistently between 45 and 50. (key - Make sure your clubs fit)

But I still couldn't break 90 when I had time to play 18 holes until I found a few videotapes that my dad had purchased years ago and left sitting around. (key - You can learn by watching good instructional videos and by watching others play)

1. Golf My Way - Jack Nicklaus

2. Sybervision Golf - Al Geiberger

These two videotapes helped immensely. Finally I started making some golf shots and getting my own swing.

But I still didn't have a clue about course management and playing to score. And then a year or so later I found a book by Raymond Floyd called "The Elements of Scoring, A Masters Guide to the Art of Scoring Your Best When You're Not Playing Your Best". For me, this book opened up the world of Golf, how to play golf, not just how to swing a golf club and hit a ball. Mr Floyd talks about a number of the items that you detailed and really walks along with you as you play your round of golf, along the lines of what you gained from the DVD by Robert Karlsson. This book started me really thinking on the golf course, understanding what type of shots I was confident in, those I was not. When to go for it, when to play safe. (Key - Learn how to play the game)

I stopped taking a lot of silly shots that were wasting strokes and making my scores go up and tried to become a tactician working my way around the course, hitting smart shots, playing my odds, and my scores came down. I knew just how far I hit each of my clubs. (Key item) Soon, I was golfing in the mid to high-80's consistently and would occasionally flirt with 80. When I was playing 9 holes, I was breaking 40 every once in a while and birdies were becoming more common. But I couldn't seem to break that 80 barrier. I always seemed to stumble when I was getting close.

So I set some goals to improve. (Another one of the keys you listed) And I started tracking my game as I went along, (another key) not as detailed as you did, but the basics like Fairways Hit, Greens In Regulation, Putts, Up and Downs, bunker saves. I needed to find out where I was wasting shots. I kind of had an idea already, but the tracking verified it.

For me, THE BIG PROBLEM was a poor start off the tee, missing the fairway and ending up in the rough, trees, sage brush, etc. I always seemed to be scrambling from the start. My iron play was ok, but it was really hard to know if my iron play was any good because I was hitting so many second shots from out of the garbage.

About that same time, I had the opportunity to join the corporate golf association at work, and I did. And my scores went up which concerned me greatly. When I golfed in a tournament, I found that I would typically shoot several strokes worse than what I was used to. Things were somehow different playing in the TOURNAMENT than when I was just out with the guys. This went on for several years, I rarely played well in the tournaments. And my regular scores settled in the mid-80's, with my tournament scores in the low-90's.

During this time, I started swapping out my golf equipment. I figured I had improved to the point of a 16 handicap  and that I should have better irons. After all, the faces on my short irons were well worn and I justified the change.

So I was fitted for some higher end blade style clubs. Wow, they were gorgeous in my golf bag. You should have seen them there, all beautiful and everything. But almost immediately, I noticed that my distance control wasn't very good. I wasn't hitting the irons well enough to get a consistent distance like I experienced in my 'game improvement' clubs. My game improvement clubs were pretty rock steady on distance, I only needed to worry about line of flight. With these blade style clubs, my scores started creeping up and up and before I knew it, I was struggling to play bogey golf.

That was the beginning of an equipment merry-go-round for me that didn't end until a little over a year ago when I decided I needed to make a change, a big change. I was getting upset when I wasn't scoring well and I was a bad shot away from buying another club. About that time, while discussing golf woes with a friend, I had a little epipheny, I was trying too hard and my skill level wasn't as good as I thought or wanted it to be. And I had become so careful out on the course, that I wasn't stepping up and being brave (not foolish) when I needed to. I was always laying up rather than risking a bad shot.

I sat down and evaluated again where I was having my troubles and came up with 4 changes I needed to make; 3 equipment and 1 mental. I was having trouble on the par-5's, so I replaced my very old Taylormade System 2 3-wood with a new 3-wood. (I know they are metals now, but I still call them woods). Second, I sold the two sets of used irons I had picked up and was using and bought a new set of game improvement irons, 4-GW, similar to my first fitted set that I liked so well. Lastly, I changed my putter and putting grip (way I hold the club).

And my mental change was the biggest change of all for me, I quit keeping score during the round, fretting over what my final score might be, and started playing shot by shot without a real regard for the final tally. I felt like I needed to just hit a great shot, and whatever the outcome, I was going to walk up to the ball and then hit another great shot and so forth. Seems simple, but it is more difficult when you walk up to a ball you just hit to 6' from the flag and you feel that pressure to make the birdie putt because you are so close. I just have to think to myself, let's make a great putt. I don't think about missing, but it is a possibility. If I do, I make the next putt a great one. You get the idea here.

Within a month, I was playing better, much better. The new 3-wood gave me great confidence on par-5's that could be reached in 2 and on short par-4's that needed an accurate shot. The new irons are easy to hit, accurate and the distance control is spot on. (They aren't as pretty as the blades though and I had to get over that) And my putting improved when inside 12', which gave me more confidence.

In the final corporate tournament of last year, a two day event, I took first place in my flight. I was hitting better shots, I was keeping my emotions in better check and wouldn't you know it, the number of birdies I've made has dramatically increased. I am having more fun.

And earlier this year, a friend and a brother took me golfing for my 50th birthday at one of the more challenging courses in our area and before I knew it I had par'd the front 9 holes. And I was playing relaxed and hitting the ball pretty well. The back 9 started with some very challenging holes and I made a few bogeys and started worrying about being able to break 80. But I was able to re-anchor my emotions and get back to playing shot by shot and finished with a 5 over 77. Course is sloped 126 from our tees. I felt really great about that.

Once I broke that 80's barrier, it seemed that a lot of confidence settled in and I've broke 80 three more times with a pair of 76's and a 79 and since I usually play 9 holes at a time, due to time constraints, I am seeing a lot more scores between par (36) and 40.

About the tournaments, I decided that slowly, I was learning how to manage my emotions and stress during play. I found that if I focus on TARGET with each shot, I hit better shots, rather than just hitting the ball down the fairway. Also, if there is a big scary out in front of me on a shot, like a lake, ravine to carry, a tree to go over or a chute to play through, I do better by standing behind the ball, envisioning my shot and picking a spot several feet out in front of my ball to use for alignment. Once I have selected that spot, I trust it and don't look back up at whatever scary thing is out there to distract me from my envisioned target. This has helped me a lot.

Like my friend told me when I decided I needed to make some changes, Golf is supposed to be fun.

Again, JC1982, thanks for posting. Great thread and excellent evaluation to share with us. I think you've got it right.

DD

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

Rediscovered this thread after posting up about my wedge problems.  Looks like I should re-read this every so often.

As an update, I had hoped to post up a thread going from 90s to 70s by now (year and a half) but I haven't made it there.  I am consistently shooting low 80s, and have been in the 70s 5 or 6 times since this post, but not for a while.  I am stuck on 80, 81, 82 and have been for a while (about five months).  I thought I had turned a corner about a month and a half ago when I shot a 76 on a pretty hard course.  Of course, the very next morning, thinking I had golf all figured out, I shot a 97.  Yes, a 97.  You can't take anything for granted in this game.

I also played in my first tournament and it did not go great.  I hit a tree off one tee and actually ended up behind the tee box!  So, some work to be done there.

I have decided I'll be "in the seventies" when I can shoot four consecutive 70s rounds.  I have alot to say about my improvement process to this point, but I'm not there yet.

Getting from 89 to 79 is one of the hardest things I've ever tried to do, probably as hard as starting my business.  I will get there, though, I have faith.  I thought going from 89 to 79 would be six months or so... turns out those 10 strokes are way harder than the 40 from 130 to 90.  It'll come eventually.  If I can fix my latest wedge problems I think I can do it pretty soon, but I thought that a year ago about my driver problems...

A physical training regimine I'm going to post up added, literally, 55-75 yards to my driver.  Some might say that is exaggerated, but it isn't.  Sneak preview, this book is awesome:

http://www.amazon.com/Fix-Your-Body-Swing-Revolutionary/dp/B0058M5K0A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid;=1349719242&sr;=8-1&keywords;=fix+your+body+fix+your+swing

Getting really long isn't all that hard, its all about strength, the correct shaft and center-of-clubface contact.  If you do the 12 daily exercises from that book every day for six months you will be able to hit it 260.  I am not exaggerating.  When I started the workout regimin (its about 35 mins. a day with medicine balls and flex bands) a "bomb" from me was about 225.  Now I can routinely hit it 275.  I know some won't believe this, but it is true.

The crazy part?  Going from 220 to 270, same tees, cut about, oh, 3 strokes off my score.  Its not really all that important (although it is fun to smash a 290 yard line drive off the first tee when you are randomly paired with a group :)   ).

So, hopefully I will have a new big post soon when I can shoot in the 70s, but who knows.  Its really, really hard to play consistent golf well.

I'm currently shooting in the 70's regularly now... Breaking through the barrier of low 80's.  It isn't easy.  The main thing for me was weaving golf into a daily routine - making it part of my life.  That may sound a little insane... But it was true.  Once I made golf an important facet of my life... And allocate about 60 to 120 minutes a day for practice... Did I finally start to improve my ball striking where I gained the confidence that I needed to even make par consistently.  Do I still hit bad shots?  Absolutely.  But my misses aren't nearly what they were when I was shooting in the 80's.  Now my misses are hitting into a sand trap left.  And then failing to get up and down.  Not hitting it OB - or into the trees.  Basically I'm in play on every hole.  And have a chance.

Now, I will add... If I had formal instruction - like every 2wks - or once a month... I probably wouldn't have to practice every single day for 60 to 120 minutes.  But given I don't have hands on instruction, and only use Evovlr (and seek out tips on this site and Youtube)... It takes me a little longer to learn concepts than it would if I was getting hands on instruction.  So my swing pattern isn't as good as it probably could be...

But you will never be above average at anything unless you really make it a part of your life... At least this is what I believe.  I see a lot of guys - and have a lot of friends who play golf and shoot in the 80's and 90's.  And want to shoot in the 70's... But bottom line they aren't willing to put the time in.

It is like guys at the gym.  There are guys that are benching 350+lbs - and shredded with less than 10% body fat.  I'm not one of those gym rats.  I'd rather be out on the range hitting balls than spending that time in the gym.  Am I in decent shape?  Yeah... But I will never get to the shredded look because I don't have the dedication in the gym... And aren't as strict on my intake within the kitchen.

PS. Thanks for sharing the book from Amazon.  I just ordered it.  I have bands and do a lot of push-ups at home (in the early morning and late at night).  But mainly just doing a routine I made up after looking through a lot of different Men's health mags and online videos.  Hopefully getting something a little more formalized around the golf swing will help me physically take it to the next level on the course?