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New Groove Rule


Jeepthrills
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I caught the end of the story on the Golf Channel and saw a brief mention on one of the posts. What is the rule and how will it affect me? I plan on trying to play in the Michigan Net Am. this year. I understand that it will be in a couple years. Should I be concerned about buying irons now that I don't plan on replacing in two years?
Driver: 9.5° 905R Stiff Aldila NV 65
3 Wood: 15.° Pro Trajectory 906F4 Stiff Aldila VS Proto Blue
Hybrid: 19.0° 503 H Stiff Dynamic Gold S400
Hybrid: 21.0° Edge C.F.T. Ti Stiff Aldila NVS
Irons: 775cb 4-GW w/S300 Sand Wedge: Vokey 58° Puttter: Laguna Mid-Slant Pro PlatinumBall: ProV1Bag: Li...
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The new rule is getting rid of the new grooves companies like titleist and taylormade are using in their recent products.

Basically, the USGA tested and found out u grooves provide a huge benefit from v grooves. When they first tested it, they didn't have the u grooves as superior as they found out they were. I think the annoncer on golf channel said we will see the change in 10 years,I could be wrong.

By the way, I live in Michigan and am coached by Scott Hebert, the winner of the Michigan Amatuer numerous times in recent years,(I think he won 3 out of the last 4.) Best golf coach you will find, a guy who not only tells you what to do, but will pick up your club and demonstrate, (he showed this to me when he hit a 300+ yard drive with my driver during a lesson.)

Best of luck in the tournament, Scott is one hell of a golfer. At the club he used to be a pro, (now pro at grand traverse resort) he did one of the most amazing things i've ever seen.

3 golfers. 2 play best ball, one is the club pro and the other is at least a scratch. Scott plays his own ball (currently assistant pro). The twosome ends up shooting 64 and Scott walks away with a 62.

Driver: Speed Pro D 9.5*

3 Wood: 904F4 15.5*

Hybrid: 585.H 19*Irons: MP-32 4-PWWedges: 52* CG12 DSG 58* CG12 DSG 64* CG12 DSGPutter: custom Studio Select Newport 2 Mid-SlantBall: Pro V1x

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The article that first told of the proposed change was in Golf Digest last fall. The USGA has been doing extensive research on how the grooves affect play, and found some interesting things. 1st, unless you are a Professional Golfer, it isn't likely to have much affect on you. The reason is that testing showed that 99% of amateurs don't hit the ball well enough to benefit from the U-grooves in the only area where they are more effective than V-grooves.... and that is on full shots from the rough. For Pros, the difference in performance was huge, but for amateurs it was insignificant. For less than full shots, the grooves made little difference. And for shots from the fairway, the test results showed that in some cases the V-groove actually spun the ball MORE than the U-groove.

The testing was done with 3 identical clubs, one with U-grooves, one with V-grooves, one with no grooves at all. In most cases, the smooth club and the V-groove club performed in a similar fashion.

Also, rumor has it that the Tour would require a changeover by 2009, but for amateurs it would be farther out than that (I'm thinking about 2012?), and that would only be required if you played in a USGA sponsored event. For USGA sanctioned clubs (local public or private clubs), no date was specified.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Thank you all very much. It will be interesting to see if the USGA will institute a rule that only affects a certain group (highly skilled golfers) and leaves it the same for others. There is precidence for this in other sports. Pass interference rules in the NFL are different in college and highschool. There are rules in basketball that differ at the other levels as well. It is very unlikely that this will apply to me in the next few years. I don't think I will be dropping from a 17 to a +1 by the time the rule kicks in.

Is there a reference out there that tells which clubs this would include? Even if my game doesn't fall into the highly skilled classification, why take a chance of buying something that could be deemed unusable?
Driver: 9.5° 905R Stiff Aldila NV 65
3 Wood: 15.° Pro Trajectory 906F4 Stiff Aldila VS Proto Blue
Hybrid: 19.0° 503 H Stiff Dynamic Gold S400
Hybrid: 21.0° Edge C.F.T. Ti Stiff Aldila NVS
Irons: 775cb 4-GW w/S300 Sand Wedge: Vokey 58° Puttter: Laguna Mid-Slant Pro PlatinumBall: ProV1Bag: Li...
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Thank you all very much. It will be interesting to see if the USGA will institute a rule that only affects a certain group (highly skilled golfers) and leaves it the same for others.

It has a precedent in golf, too. There are several existing "conditions of competition." Like being required to use the same brand and type of golf ball for the entire round. That's not something lesser skilled players often encounter.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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I have never played in a tournament. Do some of the local tournys, such as the Michigan Net Amateur, require the "same ball" rule? I really want to try it this year and this is the type of thing that can really cause problems for someone who doesn't know better.

When I play my regular rounds I tend to use the same ball. However, it's not uncommon for me to change mid round if I lose one or if I'm hitting it poorly. Are there rules regarding reporting scores for handicap purposes that prevent switching of ball types mid round, or is it just a tournament thing?
Driver: 9.5° 905R Stiff Aldila NV 65
3 Wood: 15.° Pro Trajectory 906F4 Stiff Aldila VS Proto Blue
Hybrid: 19.0° 503 H Stiff Dynamic Gold S400
Hybrid: 21.0° Edge C.F.T. Ti Stiff Aldila NVS
Irons: 775cb 4-GW w/S300 Sand Wedge: Vokey 58° Puttter: Laguna Mid-Slant Pro PlatinumBall: ProV1Bag: Li...
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I have never played in a tournament. Do some of the local tournys, such as the Michigan Net Amateur, require the "same ball" rule? I really want to try it this year and this is the type of thing that can really cause problems for someone who doesn't know better.

Unless there is a "one ball" rule, you are allowed to change the brand or type of ball during the round, but not during the play of a hole. There is a USGA rule that you have to finish a given hole with the same brand/type even if you lose a ball during the play of a hole or have a ball declared unfit for play during the play of a hole. For example, if you lose or damage a Titleist Pro V1x on hole #7, you have to replace it with a Titleist Pro V1x. See Rule 5 of the USGA rules for the official explanation.

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Do i understand correctly that this pretty much only affects clubs from 25* and up. So my cobra speed ld f driver that i just bought is confomring to new rules. Also will any hybrid and or wood i purchase this year conform to the new rules. I was going to get wedges but i thought i will just wait till next year when they new grooves are in the clubs and i will get them then.

Speed LD F Stiff Shaft 9.5*
3dx dc 2 ironwood 17*
3dx dc 4 ironwood 23*
710 AP1 5 - P
50.08 Spin Milled CC 56.11 Spin Milled CC 60.04 Spin Milled CCDual Force 2 Putter #1 Pro V1xForget your opponents; always play against par. ~Sam Snead

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the new rule doesnt even apply to us amateurs for several more years, so i wouldnt even worry about that right now. it changes around 2024. i read this on usga.org:
The clubs you own today will still be conforming for top-level amateur competition for another 5 1/2 years and, for other competitions, conforming until at least 2024, if not indefinitely.
in other words, unless you playing in top-level amateur tournaments (or higher), you probably don't have to worry about the new rules until, at the earliest, the year 2024. The restrictions do not apply to drivers or putters, but do apply to all irons for groove volume, and to any irons with lofts of 25 degrees or more for groove-edge sharpness
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So the answer is was looking for is woods and hybrids purchased now aren't going to be changed because the rule only deals with 25* or more.

Speed LD F Stiff Shaft 9.5*
3dx dc 2 ironwood 17*
3dx dc 4 ironwood 23*
710 AP1 5 - P
50.08 Spin Milled CC 56.11 Spin Milled CC 60.04 Spin Milled CCDual Force 2 Putter #1 Pro V1xForget your opponents; always play against par. ~Sam Snead

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If the rule does not matter for another 5.5 years, then why care? Chances are you'll wear a wedge down by then. Driver technology will have changed to the point where it would be beneficial to buy a newer one. Some people keep irons for 20 years, so that could be an issue. Since most of us don't play top level amatuer or pro tournaments (and won't for the next 6 years), don't worry about it.

In short, buy whatever you want.

In my Ogio Ozone Bag:
TM Superquad 9.5* UST Proforce 77g Stiff
15* Sonartec SS-2.5 (Pershing stiff)
19* TM Burner (stock stiff)
4-U - PING i10 White dot, +1.25 inches, ZZ65 stiff shafts55*/11* Snake Eyes Form Forged (DGS300)60*/12* Snake Eyes Form Forged (DGS300)Ping i10 1/2 MoonTitleist ProV1

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unless you are planning to go to college and playing golf there in the next 6 years like i am

In my vaporlite carry bag
DRIVER ft-5. 9* Mitsubishi Diamana BlueBoard 73 X-stiff
FWY WOOD: 980F 15 EI-70 X Stiff
Hybrid: Burner tour launch 4 hybrid
IRONS mp-57 4-pw with project x 6.5 shaftsPUTTER: Rossa Classic AGSI+ Monte Carlo WEDGES vokey spin milled oil can 52.08, 58.12Niblick 42*

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I currently play high school golf and there is a slim possibilty of collegiate golf so that is one reason i am asking.

Speed LD F Stiff Shaft 9.5*
3dx dc 2 ironwood 17*
3dx dc 4 ironwood 23*
710 AP1 5 - P
50.08 Spin Milled CC 56.11 Spin Milled CC 60.04 Spin Milled CCDual Force 2 Putter #1 Pro V1xForget your opponents; always play against par. ~Sam Snead

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What seriously irks me about the new groove rule is that while it will not apply to recreational players for some time, all clubs made after this year will be required to conform to the new rules or will be considered non-forming in and of themselves, no matter who's playing them.


Thus I can see the OEMs making all their clubs to meet the needs of those who get them for free as opposed to the needs of us who have to buy them.

My personal opinion is that the new rule is nonsense. If I were a manufacturer given these circumstances, I would craft clubs with scoring lines flagrantly non-conforming even to the previous rules as well as crafting conforming clubs for those who want them. Choppers like to spin the ball too.
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unless you are planning to go to college and playing golf there in the next 6 years like i am

I currently play high school golf and there is a slim possibilty of collegiate golf so that is one reason i am asking.

Touche (I couldn't find the cool French accent).

I guess we need to find out what the USGA means by "top-level amateur competition" and "other competitions" to determine what college golf is. "Other competitions" will not see the groove rule change until 2024 while "top level" amateurs will need to change in under 6 years.

In my Ogio Ozone Bag:
TM Superquad 9.5* UST Proforce 77g Stiff
15* Sonartec SS-2.5 (Pershing stiff)
19* TM Burner (stock stiff)
4-U - PING i10 White dot, +1.25 inches, ZZ65 stiff shafts55*/11* Snake Eyes Form Forged (DGS300)60*/12* Snake Eyes Form Forged (DGS300)Ping i10 1/2 MoonTitleist ProV1

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So the answer is was looking for is woods and hybrids purchased now aren't going to be changed because the rule only deals with 25* or more.

It probably doesn't matter. Some drivers don't even have grooves, and the grooves on fairway woods and hybrids get nothing from true box grooves. They almost all conform already.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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So the answer is was looking for is woods and hybrids purchased now aren't going to be changed because the rule only deals with 25* or more.

Drivers don't have square grooves anyway. The only time that the square grooves have a significant impact on spin is when you play short irons and wedges from the rough, and even then it's only the better players with high swing speeds and perfect ball striking who really benefit from the feature.

Like Nuggs says, for us ordinary people, the clubs we have now will be grandfathered in until 2025 or some such distant date, so it isn't anything to be concerned about unless you are turning pro or playing in a high level USGA championship in 2010. My Titleist AP2's that I just got already have grooves that conform to the new specs.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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