Do you ride or walk the course?

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

While I agree you are either a slow player or fast player, I disagree with the first quote. What happens that makes carts slow is when Player A sits and waits while Player B hits their shot, then they drive over to Player A's ball and Player B sits and waits. If they were both walking directly to their balls, at least they wouldn't be wasting time like that. Or, Player A is done with the hole and in the cart ready to go to the next tee, but has to wait for Player B to get in the cart too (after probably collecting his wedge from the other side of the green). If they were both walking, at least Player A could be at the next tee and ready to go while Player B is catching up.

I understand that when used properly carts are faster than walking. I just rarely see them used properly.

Trouble is, I've watched far too many walkers do the same exact thing, only they don't move as fast as a cart.  As was astutely pointed out above, slow players will be slow no matter how they get around.  You can't make any sort of judgement on this unless you've done as I have and worked as a starter at a busy facility for several years and seen more than just the group in front of you.  Part of my job is to track pace of play at the turn and the finish, and I can guarantee that the generalizations I see on both sides of the fence every time this topic comes up are mostly due to insufficient observation or to personal bias.

Slow players play slowly.  It's as simple as that.  They don't use carts properly if they ride, and they if they walk, they stroll down the middle of the fairway in a group as if they were window shopping at the mall.  I've had equal numbers of pace of play issues on the job with both riders and walkers.  When I was a walker (and I was for 25 years), I was a fast player.  Now that I'm a rider, I'm even faster when the course is open in front of me because I can simply travel faster in a cart than I can walking, and the rest of my game routine hasn't changed.

I have a couple of friends who I play with often on weekday mornings.  Two of us ride and the third one walks.  The walker is not a slow player, but he has to work to keep up with the 2 of us in the cart.  It isn't unusual for both of us to play our 2nd shots and still have to wait for him to get to his ball.  It's a simple fact that when we are traveling at 10-15 mph, we are going to be more efficient when on the move than he is walking at 3-4 mph.

And by the way, none of us has any issues with the way the others choose to get around the course.  We are friends enjoying the game together and that's all that matters to us.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You can't make any sort of judgement on this unless you've done as I have and worked as a starter at a busy facility for several years and seen more than just the group in front of you.  Part of my job is to track pace of play at the turn and the finish, and I can guarantee that the generalizations I see on both sides of the fence every time this topic comes up are mostly due to insufficient observation or to personal bias.

Rick, your status as a starter doesn't make your experiences any more valid than mine. First, it's quite easy to observe more than "just the group in front of me" - something that's probably easier to do as someone moving around the course as a player than someone sitting at the first tee. Second, I've played 100s of rounds, which means I have a data set of hundreds of groups, even if it *was* true that I only see the group in front of me. Third, I understand you track pace of play but that doesn't tell you anything about why the slow groups were slow, since you weren't personally observing them. And finally, *I* can guarantee *you* that my opinion was not formed on insufficient observation nor personal bias. It seems our guarantees are at odds with each other. :-)

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I have a couple of friends who I play with often on weekday mornings.  Two of us ride and the third one walks.  The walker is not a slow player, but he has to work to keep up with the 2 of us in the cart.  It isn't unusual for both of us to play our 2nd shots and still have to wait for him to get to his ball.  It's a simple fact that when we are traveling at 10-15 mph, we are going to be more efficient when on the move than he is walking at 3-4 mph.

Of that I have no doubt. But you're one of the few that uses carts properly. That doesn't change the fact that, in my experience , the average pair of cart users is slower than the average pair of walkers.

[Chilli Dipper]

I prefer to walk, but I ride much of the time when I am playing. There are a couple of reasons for that.

• I live in a suburban area in the foothills of the Appalachians. The majority of courses nearest to me are part of residential developments, meaning frequent long walks between holes and severe elevation changes. At many of the courses I play, walking is impractical.
• In addition, most courses in my area include a cart with the greens fee. Few offer discounted rates for walkers, and online booking sites like Golfnow.com do not advertise walking rates, either. Most of the time, I am paying for a cart, so it's simply a matter of getting what you pay for.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Rick, your status as a starter doesn't make your experiences any more valid than mine. First, it's quite easy to observe more than "just the group in front of me" - something that's probably easier to do as someone moving around the course as a player than someone sitting at the first tee. Second, I've played 100s of rounds, which means I have a data set of hundreds of groups, even if it *was* true that I only see the group in front of me. Third, I understand you track pace of play but that doesn't tell you anything about why the slow groups were slow, since you weren't personally observing them. And finally, *I* can guarantee *you* that my opinion was not formed on insufficient observation nor personal bias. It seems our guarantees are at odds with each other. :-)

I can still correct your misconception.  I work some 100 days per year, I work 6-7 hours each day, and I see an average of 6-7 groups per hour start out.   I do see how each of the up to 4200 groups I see per year play, because I watch them as they head up #1 and # 10, and as they then come in on #9 and # 18.  4 holes of play for 4200 groups, and that doesn't count the 60+ rounds per year that I play.

I will never dispute that there are slow riders, but all else being equal, slow riders still tend to be faster than slow walkers.  In my experience, most walkers don't walk out of some sense of purity of the game.  They walk because they save $7 per 9 holes by walking.  Riders don't ride because they are hacks.  They ride either out of health issues (this is me - I walked until I simply couldn't do it any more) or because they simply prefer not to walk for any of a myriad of reasons.  I was a purist walker, but I never particularly cared if others weren't.

Some of the best players I've ever known ride whenever possible.  Virtually every pro I've ever played a round with has ridden.  Pros walk when the competition requires it, but otherwise they almost always ride.  The PGA of America's Player's Aptitude Test requires that the contestants clubs be transported on a cart (no caddies).  The players may ride or walk at their option, but most of those I've watched choose to ride.  A local PAT is being held here at my home course tomorrow.  I've watched them for several years and 95% of them ride for the 36 hole test.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I can still correct your misconception.  I work some 100 days per year, I work 6-7 hours each day, and I see an average of 6-7 groups per hour start out.   I do see how each of the up to 4200 groups I see per year play, because I watch them as they head up #1 and # 10, and as they then come in on #9 and # 18.  4 holes of play for 4200 groups, and that doesn't count the 60+ rounds per year that I play.

I will never dispute that there are slow riders, but all else being equal, slow riders still tend to be faster than slow walkers.  In my experience, most walkers don't walk out of some sense of purity of the game.  They walk because they save $7 per 9 holes by walking.  Riders don't ride because they are hacks.  They ride either out of health issues (this is me - I walked until I simply couldn't do it any more) or because they simply prefer not to walk for any of a myriad of reasons.  I was a purist walker, but I never particularly cared if others weren't.

Some of the best players I've ever known ride whenever possible.  Virtually every pro I've ever played a round with has ridden.  Pros walk when the competition requires it, but otherwise they almost always ride.  The PGA of America's Player's Aptitude Test requires that the contestants clubs be transported on a cart (no caddies).  The players may ride or walk at their option, but most of those I've watched choose to ride.  A local PAT is being held here at my home course tomorrow.  I've watched them for several years and 95% of them ride for the 36 hole test.

You're still describing *your* experience, as I've described mine. Please stop telling me that I have a misconception, or a bias, or have insufficient observed.

Yes, all else being equal, a slow rider is faster than a slow walker. But in my experience there are *more* slow riders than slow walkers. And in my experience, there are more riders who are hacks than there are walkers who are hacks.

Some of the best players I know ride whenever possible too. ALL of the worst players I know also ride.

[JoelCochran]

I used to be an avid walker, I even joined the USGA's "Walking member" program back in the 90s.  I just started playing regularly again this year after 14 years: in that time I played infrequently and typically in "goofy golf" tournaments (like charity scrambles, conference captain's choices, etc.) and almost always rode.

Unfortunately, 5 years of (forced) daily running on concrete and working in the asphalt jungles of a Field Artillery motor pool ruined my knees.  That plus gaining about 60 lbs since I quit playing made it almost impossible for me to walk.  I tried walking, at first a few holes, then a 9 or two, but it always took 3-4 days before I could play again.  I started riding regularly so I could play regularly.  I've lost about 30 lbs, and I hope I can get back to walking more often, but I can't carry my clubs and I don't find a pull cart any better.

The simple truth is that a cart makes it possible for me to play more and ultimately enjoy the game.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

You're still describing *your* experience, as I've described mine. Please stop telling me that I have a misconception, or a bias, or have insufficient observed.

Yes, all else being equal, a slow rider is faster than a slow walker. But in my experience there are *more* slow riders than slow walkers. And in my experience, there are more riders who are hacks than there are walkers who are hacks.

Some of the best players I know ride whenever possible too. ALL of the worst players I know also ride.

You clearly live in a very different demographic than I do then, because there is no way that ALL bad players I know ride.  Not even close.  We have one group of regular players
on my home course who always walk and invariably take at least 2½ hours for 9 holes, no matter how hard the ranger tries to get them to play faster.  The only way they can even get around that fast is that they usually are forced to skip ½ to one hole, and they still can't get around any faster.  The only saving grace for them is that they usually play early and only play the back 9.... they are off the course before most 18 hole players can catch up to them.  And that group is not the only walking one with such issues, just the one group that I see most often.

There is also a notable pair of riders who nobody ever wants to be paired with for the same reason.  They are deathly slow and on top of that, their personalities leave something to be desired too.

My point is and will always be that the more you see, the less likely you will be to put the blame on a single group of players.  One guy says it's always old men, the next says it's always women, another says the problem is young kids (meaning high school to mid 20's), yet another blames it on high handicappers, while the next says it's low handicappers, some try to blame certain ethnic groups.  When you sit in a position to do nothing but watch and deal with all types, you find that they all have some of the blame.  At the same time all of those groups contain players who are a credit to the game.  Many times each foursome may be made up of both types.  Trying to pidgeonhole or stereotype is a losing proposition.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

My point is and will always be that the more you see, the less likely you will be to put the blame on a single group of players.  One guy says it's always old men, the next says it's always women, another says the problem is young kids (meaning high school to mid 20's), yet another blames it on high handicappers, while the next says it's low handicappers, some try to blame certain ethnic groups.  When you sit in a position to do nothing but watch and deal with all types, you find that they all have some of the blame.  At the same time all of those groups contain players who are a credit to the game.  Many times each foursome may be made up of both types.  Trying to pidgeonhole or stereotype is a losing proposition.

I completely agree with all that. And my point has always been that the majority of cart riders I see don't use them properly, and that therefore they might be faster walking. Hope that doesn't come off as stereotyping. Cheers Rick.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Yes, all else being equal, a slow rider is faster than a slow walker.

It may take more time for a slow walkers to reach the next tee box,  but following a slow rider is more painful to watch, especially when they double back and retrace their steps on almost every hole (dropped clubs, forgotten riders, balls, sunglasses, etc). Also a slow rider is more likely to have teed off before you can ask to play through. Just my experiences - but rider will not generally allow walkers to play through, regardless of how much they're making the walkers wait. Slower walkers will often allow a riders to play through. Sometimes they regret it, but c'est la vie.

[hackerandloveit]

I live in Surprise Arizona.  I rarely ever see walkers.  Summer, no way would I want to walk.  To hot to enjoy the game.  Yeah, I can walk miles a day at work outside with gear on, but I don't enjoy it.  I have a mister bottle I use inside the cart and ride during the summers here.  Would love to walk, did it in Jamaica and loved it.  Difference between us and the pro's.  They have somebody carry their bags for them.  Back just doesn't hold up to walking and carry/push my clubs.  Thinking about getting one of those self propelled bag carts.  That might work.  Expensive though.

[Topper]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Of that I have no doubt. But you're one of the few that uses carts properly. That doesn't change the fact that, in my experience, the average pair of cart users is slower than the average pair of walkers.

In my limited experience over the past 2 years, I would tend to agree with this statement.  I think a lot of people take carts because the don't want to walk. Period.  If that means watching their partner hit a shot and then driving the cart 20' to their ball, then so be it.

I also find it interesting that my observations on the 10 or 11 different courses I've played this year do not agree with this poll in terms of the ratio of people walking to riding.  Not even close.  I wonder if that suggests that Sandtrap golfers are a different "breed" relative to the typical golfer (probably) or could some of us be sandbagging with respect to our professed preference for walking.

[ohiolefty]

This is so silly.

I walk. I love walking.

I can play a faster round of golf, playing by myself, on a cart. It's simply a matter of miles per hour.

I do tend to think that 2 men to a cart can actually slow down a group. I KNOW it slows down groups playing badly for about 15 different reasons. Good players in carts will play similar to or faster than good players walking. Good players, however, will play pretty acceptably most of the time. A slow good player will most often still move more briskly than someone shooting 120.

I don't get the whole "self-righteous walker" phenomenon. I think guys should walk, particularly when they're young and learning the game. If you're 45 with bad knees and 50 pounds overweight, or if you're 35 and in great shape, but you prefer to walk - great. As long as cart riders don't play 'expedition' golf and don't turf the course...fine. Anything that keeps fellow players happy, courteous and moving briskly through the course makes me happy.

I am 30. I have a disc in my back that's shot. Sometime in the next decade or two I may be forced to become a golfer who primarily rides. I'll still fix my ball marks. I'll still play as quickly as I can and still shoot my best score. And, I'll still say "Sh*t" rather loudly when I block a draw into the next fairway. What I won't do is think every walker is a 'true' golfer, or that every rider is a douche.

[JCoop]

In my brief golfing career, I've done both. However, last week I played a round at a local course and it was like hiking in the Himalayas. Some courses are fun to walk. And your group probably plays faster than if you were chasing carts. But some courses are way too damned mountainous and are no fun to walk.

[pbyrne02]

I try to walk as much as possible in the cooler months and then grab a cart in the summer months.  I play the same either way but enjoy walking and getting exercise but also like riding in a cart with a friend and having a beer or two as well.

Golf is my time to myself.  Walking or riding, its all about me and the game.

[B-Con]

I do both. My local course is in a housing development and the holes aren't always laid out right next to each other. Carts are mandatory. I could probably just skip the cart when I go play in the evenings, but when I go out late I try to play as quickly as possible given the relatively empty course, and a cart definitely helps me play faster. With the cart I typically get 15 holes in before dark (at the longest point of summer), but I always want to hit that critical 13 hole mark so that the game can stand alone. I don't think I'd risk walking because I'm pretty sure I'd lose two or three holes of playing time. Given the chance of walking, I often take it unless I've scheduled to play with people who want to ride. I enjoy walking and I like it better. Also, when I have the choice, it's usually cheaper, and I'm a sucker for playing golf cheaply. :-P A couple times I've opted to ride when I could've walked, but it was in the afternoon of a 103* summer and walking in the sun just didn't sound like fun. At least with a cart you move less and have some bits of shade, which can really take the edge of the heat off for me.

[BuckeyeNut]

I was a die hard walker for many years..................until I started buying golf memberships that included a cart. LOL....

I've been riding since 2006.....

[MrElculver2424]

Depends on who I go with. Whenever I go, it's usually with a few other relatives who don't want to walk, so I ride in the cart with them. Sometimes, after I hit my fairway shot, I'll just take my pitching wedge and putter from the bag and just walk to the green and let them drive to their balls. But if I would go by myself, I would walk all the time because I'm only 15 and can't legally drive a golf cart yet.

[markpf189]

Walk almost always, but it's been so hot lately I've been taking a cart just for the breeze.