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Is golf obnoxious?


trackster
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Originally Posted by trackster

I'm going to try to answer all of the above in this one post.

Sure I don't have to golf a 500 dollar course.  But no course is worth 500 dollars to play it.  Cheaper courses earn money through trafficking (lots of players), and I'm guessing the 500 dollar course makes money on "prestigiousness" or "legacy" or what ever.  Golf is golf.  Sure the 500 dollar course is better then my 22 dollar home course.  But is it 20 times better...i think not.


You might not think so but people obviously pay it if they continue to charge that much.  No one is forcing you to pay $500 to play golf..it can be played for a reasonable amount of money.

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Where to start... turning it into farm land really isn't a valid idea since most golf courses aren't out in the middle no where and the ones that are maybe. Now my favorite housing... why? have you seen the housing market and also if you really want to look at a waste of land check out how many vacant homes there are in the U.S. I get what the article is trying to say but he also doesn't factor in what happens to homes around a golf course if it's turned into something else. It greatly devalues that land of those homes thus leading to even more foreclosures and housing problems. Basically the U.S. doesn't need more supply of houses or it would absolutely ruin the housing market forever and farms depends on the locations but also take a look at crop loss for a year. By this articles standard all the land that had crop loss would be a waste so is a farm really that viable of an option. The other thing that isn't brought up is if you start closing golf courses to have the land for "better" use you will be putting a lot of people out of work. A well run golf course is a perfectly good use of land grass and tree's never hurts anybody but a bad golfer.

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I could fit every church in my town on about the first 3 holes of a golf course.  And the University on the next 3.

I couldn't fit either the university OR every church in my town on the 27 holes, plus parking lot and clubhouse, that constitute my home course. [quote name="trackster" url="/forum/thread/51891/is-golf-obnoxious#post_632818"]

The fact that a golf course thinks that it is elite enough to charge 500 dollars is outrageous.  I could get 3 years of unlimited golf at my home course for 500 dollars.

[/quote] You're not the target market, clearly. [quote name="trackster" url="/forum/thread/51891/is-golf-obnoxious#post_632818"]

Maybe rooted is a bad word, what i meant was that country clubs (that can some times get elitist that join them) are centered around golf.

[/quote] Also not true. The nearest country club to me doesn't even have a golf course. Also, for every Riviera or Oakmont, there's plenty of blue collar country clubs. [quote name="trackster" url="/forum/thread/51891/is-golf-obnoxious#post_632818"]

As for trolling wtf?  Presenting an observation and asking what other people think, sounds like an ok way to start a discussion to me.

[/quote] Asking on a golf board "is golf obnoxious?" -- yes, it looks like you're saying things to get a reaction. [quote name="trackster" url="/forum/thread/51891/is-golf-obnoxious#post_632909"]

Sure I don't have to golf a 500 dollar course.  But no course is worth 500 dollars to play it.[/quote] No course is worth that much money to you. It's clearly worth it to someone, or the price would come down. Basic economics. [quote name="trackster" url="/forum/thread/51891/is-golf-obnoxious#post_632909"]  Cheaper courses earn money through trafficking (lots of players), and I'm guessing the 500 dollar course makes money on "prestigiousness" or "legacy" or what ever.  Golf is golf.  Sure the 500 dollar course is better then my 22 dollar home course.  But is it 20 times better...i think not.

[/quote] One, dollar values, and the preferences that go with them, don't necessarily scale linearly. Two... you're guessing? I figured you'd done a study by the way you're talking. [quote name="trackster" url="/forum/thread/51891/is-golf-obnoxious#post_632909"]

As for who ever was arguing (as sarcastic as it was) that we should get rid of universities as well because they take up a lot of land.  HELLO a university is 100 times more important than a golf course.  Check that it is even more than 100 times more important.

[/quote] Depends who is deciding, now, doesn't it? Certainly there are plenty of people in our society (thankfully, a very small minority of people) who think universities are a terrible thing. [quote name="trackster" url="/forum/thread/51891/is-golf-obnoxious#post_632909"]I never said 500 dollars was an average green fee.  I said that their are courses that charge 500 dollars.  I see what you are saying about saying cars are obnoxious because some are 200,000 + dollars.  But cars are built and sold with the parts and labor and a desired profit in mind.  If you buy a 200,000 dollar car you are getting a hell of a car.  Like i said before golf is golf, sure the 500 dollar course is nice but not 20 times nicer than another course.[/quote] There are universities that charge very small tuition (many small state schools), and some that charge very high tuition (ivy leagues, large private institutions). Neither is run for a profit. How does this fit in? [quote name="trackster" url="/forum/thread/51891/is-golf-obnoxious#post_632909"]Where when you bought the car you still have a super nice car, and you could even sell it later.  You can't sell golf memories.

[/quote] How about vacations? Are those a terrible idea too? I could spend a few thousand and enjoy a nice week in Cozumel. I can't sell those memories either. [quote name="trackster" url="/forum/thread/51891/is-golf-obnoxious#post_632909"]If some one told you that 10 people would lose their homes completely, but a new golf course would be opened in town that resembled pebble beach and rounds only cost 25 dollars.  And you had the choice would you really say let the 10 people lose their homes.  (I would hope not) [/quote] That's not even remotely how the world works. Even with the worst abuses of eminent domain that our (or any similar society) can produce, it isn't how anything works. But not in America. Not even in Russia. [quote name="trackster" url="/forum/thread/51891/is-golf-obnoxious#post_632909"]

As for a central park.  These are built by cities for the enjoyment of its citizens.  Golf courses are built to make profits.  Quite a difference.

[/quote] Lots of golf courses are built by cities for the enjoyment of their citizens; one of the more famous tracks in the country (Torrey Pines) was intended for such a purpose. These may or may not make a profit. Conan O'Brien's television show is produced in order to make a profit; is it bad too? Shakespeare's plays were written in order to turn a profit; are these terrible things? [quote name="trackster" url="/forum/thread/51891/is-golf-obnoxious#post_632909"]

I'll agree with that we are wasteful in an extreme amount of ways.

Finally I'm not saying I see a golf course as a waste, If you haven't noticed i signed up for an account on a golf forum.  I really like the game.  I just think that the guys comment i brought up about how a golf course takes up a ton of land has a point.

[/quote] Can you link us to this article you keep talking about?

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Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

There are some notable golfers who are obnoxious, like Jack Nicholson whaling away with his iron at  cars in a fit of road rage, and the former head of the defunct Bear Stearns on a golf extravaganza and refusing phone calls while his firm sat on a powder keg of bad home loans. And there are little people who are obnoxious on the course too, but golf itself is not obnoxious.

Farming is obnoxious when people are paid to grow corn to burn in gasoline, a venture that would not support itself without the federal handouts.

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Universities are more important that golf courses you can't debate that.  Doesn't matter the size of either.

So what if I am not the target of this 500 dollar golf course?

Well there is a country club near me and it has a golf course and the people that golf there think its better then the public course.  Sorry for going from an actual observation.

Lets see i Asked it on a golf forum because it was about golf.  I wanted to get both sides.

People make bad descisions with their money all the time

Colleges make money.. I don't know what else to say to that (because i wasn't arguing anything about that, i was talking about cars :S )

As your vacation thing i have no idea where you are going with this.  You are good at taking bits of what i said and posting the parts that you want to respond to.  I can go to walmart and call it a vacation if I want.  I brought up the debate of having a material object after you buy a car, because some one said it was similar to what was being said.  You should read above a bit.

My ten homes thing was a hypothetical situation saying that housing was more important than a golf course.  Which it is.

Golf courses make money or they wouldn't run. Are you serious?  If they didn't make money that means tax  payer dollars are funding them, and if that were the case and it got out we would have a civil war.

Again you cut out half of my post and then respond to one sentence bashing it.  If you would have taken it is as a complete thought.  You would have seen that some one compared the land a park takes up to that of a golf course.   And i said the park was built by the city for the enjoyment of the citizens free of charge.  the golf course was built (possibly by the city) to make money.

Your other profit things have no bearing if you take what I said as a complete thought.

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Golf courses and cemetaries.  The two biggest wastes of real estate in America.

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Just because YOU don't feel like a golf course is worth $500 to play doesn't mean it's not worth it to me!  You say cars are dfiferent and built for a profit?  So are golf courses...  And, while You might think a $200,000 car is worth it I don't think a $40,000 car is worth it.  Nothing you can put in a car could possibly make it worth tht much money to me.

This idea that we're running out of land is baffleing to me.  Anyone been up in an airplane recently???  There's alot more undeveloped land out there when you get off the roads and away from the cities...

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Originally Posted by trackster

ran by the city to make money.  I can go and sit in a park and it won't cost me a dime.



actually it costs you a dime every time you make a pay check.

My philosophy on golf "We're not doing rocket science, here."

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Alright i think i am done with this thread haha.

I never said cars are built for profit (well they obviously are) i said that a 200,000 dollar car is well built.  True golf courses are built for profit, but they don't provide a Necessary service.  Farming (like i said is getting bashed because it was brought up as the alternative but there is other things that the land could be used for) provides a necessary service.

I created this thread hoping there would be debate both ways.  Anyone that says golf doesn't take up a lot of land is kidding themselves.

The post some one put about "I love golf i don't care if I come across as obnoxious or not, I just like to play the game"  or something like that is really the only credible argument you need.

Instead people just pointed the finger to something else that was as bad.

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How much of modern life is necessary services? Pretty much zero. Not cable TV. Not restaurants. Not 30k+ cars. Not single family homes. And so on. This debate happens all the time on frugality sites.The most extreme I can remember was the debate about paying for toliet paper versus making sure to go at work and when your out. One persons neccessity is another person's luxury.

There is something like 4 million acres of golf courses in the US. Seems like a big number until you realize there are over 900 million acres of farmland in the US.  Again it isn't like farmland is the limiting factor in food production.

SUBMIT

Originally Posted by trackster View Post

Alright i think i am done with this thread haha.

I never said cars are built for profit (well they obviously are) i said that a 200,000 dollar car is well built.  True golf courses are built for profit, but they don't provide a Necessary service.  Farming (like i said is getting bashed because it was brought up as the alternative but there is other things that the land could be used for) provides a necessary service.

I created this thread hoping there would be debate both ways.  Anyone that says golf doesn't take up a lot of land is kidding themselves.

The post some one put about "I love golf i don't care if I come across as obnoxious or not, I just like to play the game"  or something like that is really the only credible argument you need.

Instead people just pointed the finger to something else that was as bad.



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My whole understanding of this guys comment was that Golf takes up a huge amount of space.  Sure cable TV isn't a necessity but it doesn't take up much space. (And no wires covering miles and miles does not mean it takes up a lot of space).

I read some where that all the golf courses in the US  would cover all of rhode island and like 3/4 of delaware.

Again Farmland is not the main topic here I just said that as an alternative , I could have said it could be made into an orphanage, a hospital, a homeless shelter.  Would you argue against those things?

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Originally Posted by trackster

While reading an article some where on the internet one time, I was going through the usual golf bashers and laughing at how "stupid" there reasoning was.  Then I saw someone who said something like "Golf is obnoxious just look at the tremendous amounts of land it takes up.  If that land was put towards farming or something it could really help out."

I didn't realize just how much land a golf course takes up until I realized how far along the high way i drove to get to the clubhouse once i visually saw the first hole.  And my golf course only plays 6600 yards.  A 7000 + course would be even bigger.

Golf is expensive too 500 dollars or so to play a single round?  That is ridiculous.

It is also rooted in country clubs, and i don't think i need to dive into that

Just what do you think on the subject?

Whatever......screw them...LOL

I pay only $2000 for unlimited playing priv's on a 280acre 7100+yd course.....screw the haters...they can pound sand........I don't care!


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Originally Posted by trackster

As for a central park.  These are built by cities for the enjoyment of its citizens.  Golf courses are built to make profits.  Quite a difference.

Many parks charge entrance fees, like Yosemite. You never answered my question about whether you objected to that or not.

Originally Posted by trackster

Again Farmland is not the main topic here I just said that as an alternative , I could have said it could be made into an orphanage, a hospital, a homeless shelter.  Would you argue against those things?

If someone wants to build any of those things, how is the existence of golf courses stopping them?

Do you really think the arguments you're making have any basis in logic, or are you just the world's most cleverly disguised troll?

Bill

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land usage really isn't as outrageous as you would think. only 2% of the developed acreage in the United States is devoted to golf facilities , which is around 2.3 million acres. the amount of acres used for farmland fluctuates that much on a yearly basis. in 2007 93 million acres of land was farmed for corn alone , and (as mentioned before) the amount of land damage/pollution that stems from farming is absurd. why re-purpose an industry when there's plenty of land in the US to develop? try over 90% of the continental united states , in fact. government money for subsidies is also extremely high. $180 billion handed out to farmers in 2009 ? acushnet was sold to fila for $1.23 billion for crying out loud!

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What is up with you guys and trolling.  I'd say you are all trolling for continually bring up farmland, when I said that it could be used for other things other than farm land.

As for parks, most of those are not man made.  Wilderness habitats and other stuff like that.

If you would read a post or two you would notice i said I don't object to anything.  I golf.  I am quite descent.  Thus why I am on a golf sight.  Im just presenting an observation.

Now that i think about it i haven't really argued anything, Ive just responded to people trying to point the finger at something worse.  The few people who say I don't care I love golf are the really credible answers here.

Can we get away from the farmers please I am sorry I brought them up.  If i said golf courses take up a lot of space no one could deny it.

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Originally Posted by trackster

As for parks, most of those are not man made.  Wilderness habitats and other stuff like that.

Why does it matter that national parks are not man-made?  Doesn't change the fact that they are huge areas of land that, according to your logic, could be better used for orphanages or hospitals, right?

Originally Posted by trackster

If i said golf courses take up a lot of space no one could deny it.

No one has denied it, because that wasn't your point. Your point was that you saw some validity in the argument that golf is obnoxious - because it takes up so much space that could be used for something better, because some courses are more expensive than you personally think they should be, and because some courses are country clubs.

Originally Posted by trackster

What is up with you guys and trolling.

Sorry, but you fit the profile: Attempting to get a rise out of people by making outrageous leaps of logic, forging ahead despite everyone else intelligently poking holes in your every argument, and all done with atrocious spelling and grammar (unless English is not your first language, in which case I apologize in advance).

But assuming you're not a troll and merely misguided, let me try to sum up what we're trying to tell you as succinctly as possible: Yes, golf uses a lot of real estate. But that does not preclude things that you think are better for society from occupying space on *other* real estate.

Bill

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Ok I don't even know what to say to you people anymore .

Those parks are not man made that was what was there on the land.  That is like saying the earth is 70% water that could be used for something more useful.  Thats how it was.  A golf course took land and made it into a golf course.  One is not disturbing the land and one is turning the land into something else.

Again I haven't argued anything so I don't see how you are poking holes in what I have said.  I presented what someone said, I saw it from their point of view and presented what I thought.  Then proceeded to tell people that they haven't provided a single thing that has been of relevance.  A finger has been pointed at cars, farmers, national parks.  Seriously people, national parks?

I don't think I made any leaps.  I said golf takes up alot of space for not providing a necessary service. You can say that farmland takes up way more, but alas food is a necessity.

I came into this siding on golf isn't obnoxious but after hearing the responses here and watching people point the finger at some thing else.   I think this responses answer this question pretty easily.

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Note: This thread is 4625 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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