Looking for someone that has suffered from taking the club too far inside and is now cured

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by iacas

I used to:

roll #3 quite a bit on the backswing

from there I'd be so intent on gaining depth that I'd take my hands IN to an extreme - they'd be lower than Matt Kuchar

because the shaft was flat it'd steepen in transition and I'd fight coming very slightly over it - just a few degrees

So now I:

TURN only in the early part of the backswing. Try it in a mirror - do nothing with your arms and just turn. Your hands go in plenty.

Softly fold the right elbow. It feels like it bends about 45 degrees only.

I cock the club up a little bit while turning. I say "turn only" but when I've really got that down I'll add a little "steep to shallow" feeling. I want the shaft to go steep to shallow - what feels like steep to shallow, anyway, since it's really just kind of on plane most of the time.

So that's it. It works for me, no guarantees for you.

Cupped, I think he's well aware that feel isn't real, and that video has next to nothing to do with the topic.

Thank you! I think I know what you mean. I'm off for a short break until Sunday, so I'll give this a try at the range next week.

[mdl]

I'm not cured, but this is something I've always fought and only recently have I really figured out the feeling to go for to fix it.  The feeling for the fix for me is as was mentioned earlier.  I feel like I'm doing an extreme Ricky Fowler, though the video shows that's not the case.  But the feeling for me is hands deep but NOT flat, so sort of deep and up, with extreme Ricky Fowler relationship between hands and club head.

Basically the feeling I have to go for at this point at least is to maintain the DTL angle between my left arm and the shaft almost all the way to the top of the back swing.  What I mean by that, is that if you look DTL, your arms are hanging more or less straight down and then the shaft is sitting at your lie angle, so from the DTL view there's an angle between you arms and the shaft.  The feeling I go for now is to try to maintain that angle up through the back swing.  Obviously you cock the club back and all, so your arm triangle isn't pointing directly down the shaft line pretty early in the swing, but hopefully what I mean is clear.

The struggle for me now is that I was so used to taking my hands back pretty close to the right plane but pushing the club head way too deep, and on my down swing I never was able to replace my hands inside the club head.  With the new back swing now I fight the urge to use the same down swing as before, which leads to an over the top move.  But when I'm able to keep my down swing on plane and my hands inside the ball through impact, things are SO much better.

Obviously you're a much better golfer than I am, but that might make things easier for you.  It might be worth your while to just try what feels like an extreme Ricky Fowler back swing and try to feel out what you need to do on the downswing to hit it where you want that way.  After 6-9 months where I felt like I was on a plateau with my irons this has finally led me to a place where I feel like I'm on the verge of taking the next step.

[carpediem4300]

well i played 18 at the belfry yesterday for a friends birthday outing, driving was good but quite erractic

im still fighting the severe inside takeaway, managed it a few times,......

also fighting the urge to "kill it" i think looking down long par 5's or long par 4's with wind against i get it into my head i need to swing harder to make it work, when i actually dont.

the good drives i hit are where i focused on the extended target line through the back of the ball, and traced that line with the club head, and as MDL above mentioned it feels like you are maintaining the angle between your arms and the shaft.

feels weird to begin with, and almost as if your just bringing the club "Straight up", but as ive found when using mirrors i can hardly ever swing to steep because if my natural tendency to come inside

let us know how your getting on and what begins to work for you

[Stretch]

My brain can only think about one thing at a time on the golf course, so I've been focusing on Erik's bit about folding the right elbow earlier in the backswing. Shot a 76 today playing in a 45 km/h wind and hit the ball solid all the way round -- which was nice.

Need to dig out the camera next and see if there's anything to see.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by mdl

so from the DTL view there's an angle between you arms and the shaft.  The feeling I go for now is to try to maintain that angle up through the back swing.  Obviously you cock the club back and all, so your arm triangle isn't pointing directly down the shaft line pretty early in the swing, but hopefully what I mean is clear.

That's a good visual, thanks!

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by iacas

I used to:

roll #3 quite a bit on the backswing

from there I'd be so intent on gaining depth that I'd take my hands IN to an extreme - they'd be lower than Matt Kuchar

because the shaft was flat it'd steepen in transition and I'd fight coming very slightly over it - just a few degrees

So now I:

TURN only in the early part of the backswing. Try it in a mirror - do nothing with your arms and just turn. Your hands go in plenty.

Softly fold the right elbow. It feels like it bends about 45 degrees only.

I cock the club up a little bit while turning. I say "turn only" but when I've really got that down I'll add a little "steep to shallow" feeling. I want the shaft to go steep to shallow - what feels like steep to shallow, anyway, since it's really just kind of on plane most of the time.

So that's it. It works for me, no guarantees for you.

Just as I was about to set off for a few days break, I decided at the very last minute to throw the Stack & Tilt book into the back seat of the car. I've tried the conventional swing for 23 years now and it just doesn't work for me. I have never had a very consistent swing, even though I got down to scratch. I could have simply tried Erik's advice above, but it makes more sense to fully adopt S&T.;

During my 3-day break, I read the book from cover to cover three times and am fully convinced it is the way to go. I hadn't read the book in two years and had forgotten just how good it is. I had no clubs with me, but practiced the positions in the mirror with an old walking stick I found.

So...upon my return today, I decided to go to the driving range and give S&T; a go using my 7 iron. I followed the advice of hitting 10 balls at a time adding pieces of the method every 10 balls. I threw out of my head everything I knew about the conventional swing and replaced it with S&T.;

Well...the results were astonishing. Just by keeping my weight on my left foot during the backswing for the first 10 balls did wonders for my ball striking. I was hitting them flush, although pulling them quite a few yards to the left. I felt centered and solid contact came easy.

The next 10 balls were weight forward and left shoulder down and the results were the same. The feeling was left shoulder down, right shoulder straight back - no moving off the ball. This feeling was very new, something I wasn't doing in my previous swing. I could already feel my hands had to swing inside. I also started to open the face a few degrees and move the handle forward more to promote a draw. Ball position was slightly forward of centre.

The next 10 balls were the previous two pieces plus hands in. This was the move I feared the most as I am petrified of any movement to the inside. I visualized the picture in the book where there are two lines painted on the ground, one for the club head and one for the hands. This allowed me to overcome my fear and move the hands in. There were also two quotes from the book I recalled from two different players. One said the backswing felt like swinging around his beltline and the other was trying to get the hands BEHIND the right shoulder not on top of it. These two quotes really helped me shallow out my backswing. I was still pulling the ball by this stage and I suddenly realised why. I was still lifting my arms to complete the backswing! I remembered from the book that the left arm must not come off the torso during the backswing. Once I stopped lifting my arms, I started hitting the ball from the inside and hitting a little draw. The feeling at the top was I that of a 3/4 swing.

The next 10 balls was adding tucking one's butt under their torso. I'm not sure what to say about this move. Perhaps I was doing it fine already. If anything, it took compression away from the strike as I tended to hit the ball a little thin. I gained height and started pushing the ball. I decided not to worry too much about this piece. Although it did come in handy for hitting woods later in the session!

Finally, I hit 10 balls adding extended arms to the mix. Once again, it didn't really help my cause. Was I already doing it adequately? It made me feel as if I couldn't finish the swing, so I quickly stopped worrying about it.

Overall, the new swing felt great and the results were much better than what I was doing before (not hard!). Yes, I know it is early days but at least the early signs are promising. Generally, I would hit a gentle draw to my target, block it 10 yards to the right or pull it 10-20 yards left. One other thing I tried from the book was swinging harder from the top but finishing quicker like cracking a whip. I actually gained a good 10 yards with my 7 iron with a 3/4 backswing and 3/4 follow through! One other thing I needed to be careful with was thrusting my hips AND head forward to start the downswing. This move would immediately send my ball 20 yards left of my target.

I am going to put this new swing into play tomorrow and then I need to find a way to film my swing as I really need to see this! If I can hit the ball on the course like I hit it on the range today, I don't care if I'm swinging too far inside!!

[Stretch]

Another one bites the dust! :) Welcome to the dark side.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Another one bites the dust! :)

Welcome to the dark side.

This time I promise to give it more than 5 minutes!

[CuppedTin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Another one bites the dust! :)

Welcome to the dark side.

This time I promise to give it more than 5 minutes!

Please post your results tomorrow as well as a video as soon as you get it. You gave an awesome post about your 10 ball transformation. I utilize every component of S&T; except for the hands inside only because I prefer a fade (Pull-Fade) over a push-draw. But when I do need that shot now (Push-Draw) I simply bring my hands way inside on the backswing... I don't believe there really is such a thing as a conventional swing. If they were to never give S&T; a name I think you would see everyone doing it... When you are comfortable with your driver consistency, start adding the "jump" piece on the downswing... Get ready for a lot of fun.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

Please post your results tomorrow as well as a video as soon as you get it.

You gave an awesome post about your 10 ball transformation. I utilize every component of S&T; except for the hands inside only because I prefer a fade (Pull-Fade) over a push-draw. But when I do need that shot now (Push-Draw) I simply bring my hands way inside on the backswing...

I don't believe there really is such a thing as a conventional swing. If they were to never give S&T; a name I think you would see everyone doing it...

When you are comfortable with your driver consistency, start adding the "jump" piece on the downswing... Get ready for a lot of fun.

I think the reason I've always been attracted to S&T; is because it promotes hands in and a straight right leg. Two things I do naturally! ;-)

I only hit 60 balls today, 50 7 irons and 10 hybrids, so I'm not expecting too much tomorrow.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

Please post your results tomorrow

When you are comfortable with your driver consistency, start adding the "jump" piece on the downswing... Get ready for a lot of fun.

71 (-1)

10 FIR, 11 GIR and 27 putts.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the way things went today as it's never easy taking swing changes to the course. I didn't hit the ball as well on the range yesterday, but that was to be expected. Ironically, I hit the driver well but not the irons. The good news is I was able to hit quite a number of solid draws with the driver but always with a tendency to over-draw. Very difficult to judge the irons on today's performance as I wasn't catching them well. They more or less went straight (slight draw) but I tended to thin them and therefore under-clubbed nearly every time.

[carpediem4300]

are you using the S&T; method with the driver? how did you find it?

I spent hours at the range yesterday and im getting there, but struggling to be consistent

[Stretch]

Some resources re S&T; driver:

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/thread/44307/hitting-up-or-down-with-the-driver-in-an-inline-pattern

Note, obviously some bits of latter not fully in line (haha!) with former, since thinking has evolved (haha!) in interim.

[carpediem4300]

cheers stretch

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

are you using the S&T; method with the driver? how did you find it?

I spent hours at the range yesterday and im getting there, but struggling to be consistent

Yes, I only missed 4 fairways which is really good for me and by adopting S&T; I all but eliminated the right hand side of the course. Until I tried S&T; I was missing left and right. I was also unlucky to over draw two drives that ended up being right behind trees requiring a chip out sideways. It didn't feel as powerful as the conventional swing, simply because I was keeping my arms down, but it is much more accurate. Also, I was catching them a little thin so losing distance.

I also need another good range session in order to feel more comfortable on the course.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Some resources re S&T; driver

Thanks, I watched this video prior to playing and it certainly helped. By the way, I am still trying to hit up on the ball rather than down with the driver.

[carpediem4300]

yeah i think i started with the average S&T; swing, hitting down, which didnt help me much

as soon as I set up behind the ball and dropped my right shoulder so i was hitting up i was either getting straight push or push draw, but not much distance :S

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Thanks, I watched this video prior to playing and it certainly helped. By the way, I am still trying to hit up on the ball rather than down with the driver.

[Stretch]

For me, the quick way to get a slightly higher trajectory is to play a push fade off the tee. Still hitting out at it, but the open stance seems to make it easier to drop the right shoulder and get up on the left leg.