lesser known custom club makers, opinions, info, comparison

[jmcmb]

Whats goin on everyone,

I just joined the forum yesterday, and started my first thread about a web site that sells MIura golf clubs, I would like to thank anyone who has taken a look or responded, if you havent, please do if you have the time and help me out if you can, I would really appeciate it.  I mentioned in that thread that I had just recently discovered alot of lesser known custom club makers who make absolutely stunning clubs, i am very interested in ALOT of them lol.  I wanted to start a thread to get some opinions and info about these club makers, does anyone own clubs from these makers? how do they perform? has anyone demoed any? which makers do you like? any makers that should be avoided? and just any other opinions, thoughts or information (maybe even a comparison) on this type of club maker, I kinda see this as an open thread for this type of club/club maker.  I'm really interested to hear what anyone has to say.  Here are some specific clubs and club makers that i'm very interested in (although i definitely do not want to limit this thread to just these specific clubs or manufacturers), in no particular order:

Miura Golf clubs (anything and everything from Miura, irons,  wedges, putters, woods, hybrids)

Gold's Factory wedges and putters

Bettinardi Tour SB 10 MR2 face sound slot no sight line long neck

Epon Golf 2009 AF-tour forged blades, Epon 2011 AF-152 driver, 2008 AF-101 driver, 2010 EM-S Driver

Fourteen 2010 TC-910 forged, 2011 TC-710 forged

iomic grip(really like the look of them, interested to know how they feel and perform)

Kyoei Golf Zestaim Fi-2 muscle forged blade, Vega V-muscle forged blade, Vega V-cavity RAF-501i, Zestaim forged wedge

Nippon shafts (shafts in my opinion are really personal preference and feel base, more so than just about anything else, but im interested to know what people think of them)

ONOFF 2011 forged iron, ONOFF Labo Spec RB247 irons

PRGR 2011 iD BL Forged iron, 2011 ID forged iron

Royal Collection 2011 Forged Blade

Ryoma Golf D-1 vspec driver, D-1 Driver, D-1 PREMIA driver

Three Luck Sky Dream Jump CF 1 forged iron, Pro WS forged wedge, Pro TB forged wedge

Tourstage 2011 X-Blade 905 limited, 2011 X-Blade 905CB limited, 2011 X-Blade 705 Type M, 2011 X-Drive 905 limited

Yonex 2011 Zero driving iron Ryo Ishikawa model, 2011 EZONE forged CB iron, 2011 EZONE forged PB iron, 2011 forged MB limited Ryo Ishikawa model, Tour Forged Iron

Yururi 2010 Raw Flat Back Blade (I really LLLOOOVVEE the look of this club), 2011 forged Chili wedge, Keigekiku tour wedge, Keigekiku Tour Seida Rpas wedge, Raw Gekku wedge, 2011 new KM-0107 CNC Gekku iron

Scratch golf clubs, I dont really know much about them, ive only seen there wedges, but they look great and im interested to learn about there other clubs

Hakusa golf X-Blade, Tour Issue wedge, X Wedge

Nakashima Golf, havent heard much about this maker

Akira Prototype KS201 irons, Prototype K101 irons, K109 prototype tour driver

PRGR 2011 ID435 driver

Yonex Nano v Nextage 430 driver

Wow!! that was a lot of typing lol, sorry about the enormous list, but thats just a bunch of things i really love, or I'm interested in, I would love to hear anyone's thoughts on any of these or any other clubs or products by these types of club makers/manufacturers, i would really really like to here from anyone who owns or has owned or played any of the above mentioned clubs and products or clubs/products of a simillar nature.  I ccant wait to hear what people think.  Thank you for taking the time to read my enormous post.

Jay

[LankyLefty]

Miura might make the highest quality Iron in golf, Ive never swung one so I cant tell you much about performance but the process and materials they use to manufacure their irons is second to none.

Yonex has not caught on big in the states for whatever reason but are really as good as any "major" clubmaker and are big in aisian markets.

Scratch is probably the most well regarded custom components manufacurer in golf. KZG might give them a run for their money also, but if your looking to spend big bucks and get exactly what you want how you want it Scratch and KZG make amazing stuff made to order just expect to pay for it. A full set of top of the line fully custom fit clubs from these guys can run as much as 3 grand or more.

If your into custom stuff at a lower pricepoint SnakeEyes, Maltby, Wishon, and a few other companies make really decent stuf that if you buy in pieces and assemble yourself is a real bargin.

[jmcmb]

Ive heard some about scratch, and i would like to learn more about there clubs, i would quite possibly order a custom set from them if they catch my eye, I've heard next to nothing about KZG, heard the name mentioned a few times, but nothing else until now, ill definitely give them a look.

I try to get my hands on just about everything that I like, I would say its about 60 percent that I love to play everything to see what performs the best, and 40 percent that I love having a collection of beautiful clubs that I wind up hanging on to for there aesthetic(sp.) value more so than performance, I play every single club I buy as soon as i get them, and i love to play all of them, but for the most part I have 3 sets of irons that I play most of the time because they just flat out perform best for me, while there are many many others that ive bought, played, and relized that they do not perform as well for me as other clubs might, but i still enjoy playing them every now and then, and i can enjoy them every single day in a different way, whenever i look at them, as a beautiful piece of craftsmanship. Thank you very much for responding, I appreciate it, I cant wait to hear from anyone else who would like to chime in.

Jay

[The Tin Man]

To really go obscure get into putters. The best are made by elves and blessed by the fairies, or so they claim.  (best means most expensive - nobody hits balls with these)

These web sites will get you started. While they mostly deal with major brands that anyone can buy, they do mention the boutique makers that ask the big bucks here and there.

Q: Do you make a $8,000 putter?   A: For you we do!  (Takes the money and goes surfing for three months.)

http://primetimegolf.com/category/articles/review

http://puttertalk.com/reviews/putters/byron-morgan-german-stainless-dh89/

When you get your custom putter from somebody most of us never heard of,  remember when describing your newest blade to use "wine tasting" adjectives mixed in with geek speak metallurgy.

PS: Nobody advertises $8000 putters. (They market their lower end $300-800.)   Scotty Cameron makes one, as do others,  but you have to convince them of your worthiness to buy one.

(Submit "patents of nobility"?)

[jmcmb]

Made by the elves you say, do they have "Sting" engraved on them, and does the "blade" glow blue when orcs are near?? lmao, LOTR reference, im a bit of a fantasy junky.... Those are definitely something I will look into, thank you for the suggestion.  Also, you may have been joking, but I would never have a problem with anyone trying out any of the clubs I own, if your thinking of buying something and would like to try it out, or if its just something you think you would like to try, shoot me a PM with what your interested in if you live in or around NY, or you are traveling here, I also travel alot, so ill post when I'm traveling and where, normally ill only bring one set of clubs, but if you see that ill be around where you live and there is something you would like to try out, let me know what it is and ill bring it with me, I have just about everything from the larger manufacturers, everything is built to my specs, but im pretty standard, I generally play stiff and stiff+ shafts in my woods and hybrids depending on the brand of shaft, generally standard length, lately I've liked the Aldila RIP in stiff+, Matrix Ozik Altus in stiff+, Fubuki alpha in stiff+, ProjectX in stiff or stiff+ depending on the club, in my irons i usually play a hard stepped stiff shaft. different heads have different shafts, but I've really liked KBS lately, lengths are generally standard, and lie angles are 1 degree flat, in wedges I play the same specs, but I've been messing around with alot of shaft combos lately, namely the various "spinner" wedge shafts and how they work for me with different lofts, heads, and grinds/bounce angels, all wedges shafts are stiff,  and with putters, i normally buy blade and small mallet putters.  Grips on all woods and irons are either standard tour velvets, standard lamkin crossline, or standard lamkin REL 3Gen, all built up slightly with tape, grips on all wedges (excluding PW) are standard Winn EXCEL AVS red/graphite with no tape build up.  Thank you everyone who has taken the time to read and respond to both of my threads.

[The Tin Man]

For $8000 a putter should include the "Precious".  Seriously, custom putters are the "rabbit hole" of golfing.  Since all you do with a putter is stroke a ball along a straight line there's lots of room for grandiose claims about feel.   I'll visit the rabbit hole but I don't drink the cool aid, it's not in my budget..........and everyone knows not to eat or drink anything in Faerie.

PS: I will say this. Mild steel has a soft feel I really like. A feel that can be found on a mega dollar custom milled, a used $150 Scotty Circa 62. or  a junk barrel  Wilson, McGregor, Spaulding etc.

[jmcmb]

I'm going to agree with you for the most part, will a super expensive putter put the ball in the hole better than a 25 dollar putter, or a 300-400 dollar putter? for the most part, no, but I feel the need to make a few points, a putter that is totally custom fit, and wieghted to your exact specs will generally do the job better than something off the rack, and the price generally rises as the level of customization rises, do you need to spend thousands to get properly fit and have a putter made up to your specs? of course not, but I dont think anyone would consider it cheap to go through that process.  Also, as far as the super expensive putters go, I dont think your  paying for increased performance, i highly doubt anyone pays many thousands of dollars for a putter thinking that its going to make them a better golfer, at that price level, your really paying for extreme aesthetic(sp.) customization, and yes, exclusivity, and most people who buy something like that can afford it, and if you can afford it, why not, its something thats made specially for you and there will never be another like it, its fun to own, and beautiful to look at, if it brings you joy, why not? Is it an intelligent idea for someone to purchase something like that who cannot really afford it thinking its going to solve all of there putting woes? Helll no, but if it doesnt affect you financially, and if it makes you happy, then I cant see an argument against it, hell, ive paid 400K for a sports car, a super expensive putter wouldnt be my most outrageous or outlandish purchase.  Theres a quote I heard on the radio a few years back, right around the time Michael Jorand retired from basket ball that i think kinda sums up what im saying.

"They say Michael Jordan has a gambling problem after he lost almost a million dollars in Vegas last weekend, OH PLEASSE, thats pocket change to him, the guy has hundreds of millions!! Me betting 700 dollars on the jets when I have 140 dollars to my name and bills coming out my ears, thats a gambling problem, but Michael Jordan losing a million? not even close, thats just a guy enjoying the money hes earned, he was probly smiling and laughing the whole time"

Thank you very much for responding.  Also wondering if anyone has any opinions or experiences with the clubs or products i mentioned in my original post for this thread.

Jay

[rebby]

I'm very happy with my Miura irons. I enjoyed my Scratch irons/wedges as well but Miura is just in another league altogether. I went through a dealer/builder in OH for my clubs. He does some fantastic work and even though I started working on my own clubs, I still send work his way from time to time when I don't have the tools (frequency matching, loft/lie bending, etc).

[The Tin Man]

This company intrigues me, I like the concept of blending the short irons into the wedges. They are an off shoot of Eidolon who has made wedges for years. Forged, lots of lofts to build a set, and out of my budget right now. How about trying them out and writing a review?  I'm sure I'm not the only one who's interested.

http://www.scorgolf.com/

PS: Your in the unique position of being able to try out equipment that most of us can't afford to take the risk on - like Consumer Reports does.

[jmcmb]

That sounds like a good idea, I'll definitely take a look at the company you mentioned above, if I like it and pick up some of there clubs, ill definitely write a full review, it will probly take some time to have them built to my specs if I buy them, Ill also do a review on the Miura clubs I have coming and anything else that I buy from now on, also if there is anything from the major manufacturers that you would like me to review, just let me know in one of my threads or shoot me a PM.  At the moment im seriously contemplating picking up a set of Yururi 2010 raw flat back blades in satin finish, Yururi 2011 KM-0107 CNC Gekku irons, Yonex 2011 forged MB limited Ryo Ishikawa model, Yonex Tour Forged Iron, Miura CB 202 and 301, Kyoei Zestaim Fi-2 Muscle forged blade, kyoei vega V-muscle forged blade, Miura Gikken 2008 MB-5003 and CB 3003, a few Yururi wedges, Scratch sb-1, Miura IC 6001 driving 2iron, Miura giken 2010 MG hybrid, Ryoma driver, Bettinardi putter, Gold's factory custom putter.  I probly wont get every single item on that list, but ill get quite a few of them, again, everything will be built to my specs so it will take a while to receive whatever I order, But like I mentioned above, if there is anything currently available from the major manufacturers or from the last 3 or 4 years that you would like me to review, let me know, ive also tried many different shafts in both my woods/hybrids, and my irons, as well as grips, so i can give you review of those as well if you are interested.  I ordered a few iomic grips a few days ago and im going to pick them up today, im going to put them on a few irons and woods and ill let everyone know what i think later on. Thank you very much for your ideas and input.

P.S I dont want to step on the toes of any of the Administrators of this site, so if there is ever anything you would prefer me not to post about, just let me know.

Jay

[LankyLefty]

Lets start a thread where we guess this dudes yearly income...

[The Tin Man]

There's no way of knowing and It doesn't matter............it's the web.

[RoyPinhey]

the only thing i can comment on is the iomic (sp) grips. i have them on my irons and my putter and they offer lovely feel and tackiness even when wet. i highly recomend them

[jmcmb]

I hit a few clubs with the iomic sticky 2.3 grips at the range today, I have to say, I really really love these grips, the way i went about testing these out is i took a few clubs with the iomic grips on them, and a few clubs with my standard tour velvet grips, and i hit them side by side, I had a 3, 7, and PW titleist ZM with the iomic sticky grips, along side of a 3,7, and PW MP67(my go to irons) with my normal tour velvets, i had a titleist 910 D2 with the iomic sticky grip, along side a 910 D3 with tour velvets, I had a nike VR pro 3 wood and 4 hybrid with the iomic sticky grips, along side a taylor made R11 3 wood and 910H 17 with tour velvets. The results really surprised me, I have tried sooo many grips, and always I come back to the standard tour velvets, but these iomic grips give me the feel im looking for along with the extra tackyness Ive wanted, they make me feel more comfortable with my hold on the club, and my swing feels slightly more natural, i cant say anything about durability yet or how they handle moisture, but im very optimistic at this point, the only club I would say that I still prefer the tour velvet on is my driver, the iomic grip seems to feel slightly strange on the driver, I gripped the rest of the MP67 set with the iomics, ill be off to play a quick 9 with them as soon as i post this, ill let eveyone know how it goes when i get home later on.

Jay

[inthecup]

I play Henry-griffitts OS-1 irons. And their new wedges. I am seriously considering getting a Henry-Griffitts Praxis driver. They invented modern dynamic club fitting. I was most interested in a professional fitting. I am on my phone so you will have to search to find them they pop right up.

[iacas]

We'll have a review up soon ourselves. Executive summary: nice clubs. Small heads. Me like.

[jmcmb]

This is gonna be a long multi part post, im going to apologize in advance.

Played 9 a little while ago with the MP67's with the iomic grips on them, I was happier with them than I thought I would be, the extra tackyness vs my normal tour velvets really gave me a new level of confidence in my hold. Many club and touring pros that I've spoken to or played with since I began playing have told me fairly often that most amateur grips tend to break down at the top of the backswing, and to this day its always in my mind during my swing to make sure my grip on the club is consistent throughout my swing, particularly at the very top of the backswing, from  what ive been told, and from my personal experience, that seems to be where your body wants to make adjustments that can ruin a golf swing, honestly, these grips seem to really make it more natural and less forced, as my round progressed, i found less and less concious thought was needed to keep my grip consistant, and i could focus more and more on impact, my mind didnt seem to wander to the various components of my swing, and I could just dial in on the ball and what i wanted to do with it, I found my grove, and darts were thrown lmao.  I was also more comfortable really going at my short/ scoring irons, increasing my control of the spin on each shot noticably, I'm not sure of the weight of the iomics vs my tour velvets, but i didnt notice any difference in swing weight like i have with some other grips like the winn lite, they give you a slightly softer feel than the tour velvets, but they also gave me surprising feedback and are more responsive than I thought without being harsh, just looking at the grip, you wouldnt think they give you very much feedback, I personally thought they would mute or deaden the feel of a shot when i first saw the grip up close, but thats just not the case. I personally couldnt be happier with these grips, I believe very strongly that golf is a huge test of mental toughness and focus, and that when you can eliminate or reduce the need for concious thought about a certain aspect of your game or swing, you can focus your thoughts more effectively, makeing you a stronger, more confident, more consistent, and all around better player, these grips certainly help me to achieve that, Ive tried so many grips, and i very rarely find one I like, ive always been back with my tour velvets after a round or two, and never so much because I felt the tour velvets helped my game, but because i felt they didnt hurt my game, Iv'e always found grips to be a bit of an under appreciated part of equipment, overlooked entirely by many weaker players and beginners, and I think my results with these iomic grips illustrate very well that everyone should give the grips they play some thought, weather you are a scratch golfer, or just developing a love for the game, a grip that helps give you confidence in your hold on the club WILL help you shoot lower scores and enjoy the game more, probly not dramatically, but certainly enough to notice, confidence breeds consistency, and consistency breeds confidence, ands its so much easier to have a great time on the course when you feel good about your game. In conclusion, so much about equipment selection is personal preference, and whats perfect for one person, might be terrible for another, but I'm quickly falling in love with these grips, and if your like me and have always struggled to find grips that suit you or have lacked confidence in your hold on the club, and desire a grip that gives you more tackyness without sacrificing feel and feedback, i think you should give the Iomic sticky 2.3 grips a try(or the 1.8 if you have smaller hands), iomic grips are not cheap, I paid 14.00 per grip, and the sticky lines are considered the base models, i believe some iomics get up to 20+ per grip, I'm sure that everyone who has been reading my posts realizes that I spend all sorts of money on golf equipment(and just about everything else for that matter, lol), but I highly recommend ordering 2-3 from a club fitter and trying them out before scooping up enough to re-grip a set, if your club fitter deals alot with japanese clubs, they just may have a few in stock, i havent seen them in any of the larger retail stores(golf galaxy, golfsmith) and I had to order them through the clubmaker who does most of my clubs, but I called around and found two places that deal in alot of japanese clubs that keep some in stock, they have a website you can order through, but im not sure if there are any qunatity restrictions.  I hope this helps anyone who is interested in or thinking about getting these particular grips.

Erik, thank you for your response, love this site, think its a fantastic resource for golfers of all skill levels, and is just about the only website i signed up for... ever.. lol, also, which clubs is it that you will have a review up for soon that you mentioned in you post?

I have an update on my club hunt, I will be ordering a new set or irons within the next day or two, ive narrowed it down to 3 choices, the Yururi 2010 raw flat back blades in satin finish, Miura 2008 MB-5003 blades, or a set of Scratch golf SB-1 Digger/driver, that my club maker actually purchased, played once, and didnt like, from what I have heard, the Miura 5003 MB is one of the best forged blades ever to come out of japan, soft feel, great workability, the Yururi raw flat back blades have a very soft feel, and are surprisingly playable, and the scratch SB-1 is somewhere in between the two others, quite forgiving for a blade, but not as soft as the Miura or Yururi, but im quite interested in the digger/driver grind,  I love the look of all of them, the edge goes slightly to the Yururi, he would sell me the SB-1 for 970.00, but they have dynamic gold s300 shafts in them, so i would have to have them re shafted and the lie angle would need to be adjusted, that would make them all just about the same price, give or take 200.00, i cant really get my hands on any of them to hit, I could demo the SB-1, but with th s300 shaft on them, that wouldnt help me very much, if you would like to take a look at the Yururi or Miura, you can find them at Tour Spec Golf, please give me any info, opinions or thoughts that you can on these 3 clubs, if anyone owns any, I would really appreciate to know what you think, its probly to much to ask for to find someone who has hit all 3, also, im really inteested in shafting them with nippon shafts, i have been playing KBS lately, and would really love to hear what people think of the various nippon shafts, and just this manufacturer on the whole, and how they feel and perform vs. KBS, I havent really found anywhere I could demo the Nippons, but if i get really positive feedback on them, I would find a way to hit the various Nippon shafts before shafting whichever set I go with, with them.  Any feedback anyone can give me would be very appreciated.

P.S I still plan on scooping up alot of the clubs and equipment I've mentioned in my earlier posts in the near future, as well as all 3 that I mentioned in this post, but I will definitely be ordering 1 of the 3 sets I mentioned above in the next few days, ill make sure I write reviews whenever I recieve new stuff, and if you would like to request for me to review anything from the larger manufacturers, either currently available, or from the last 3 or 4 years, shoot me a PM, or post it in one of my threads. Thank you very much to everyone that took the time to read this extremely long post.

Jay

[inthecup]

Originally Posted by iacas

We'll have a review up soon ourselves. Executive summary: nice clubs. Small heads. Me like.

Erik, any eta on the review?  Just curious.