When "Breaking 80" is not always "Breaking 80"

[x129]

That is true. The problem that people are having is that out of context it doesn't mean anything. Your 80 (senior tees on easy course) might be my 120 (Some PGA event that is a 7000 yards with tricky greens and tough bunkers). Your 80 has value only in comparision with other scores on that course in the same conditions. You can try to modify the score using the slope/rating but that isn't an exact science.

Originally Posted by TN94z

Breaking 80 is still breaking 80

[Gresh24]

Quote:

That is true. The problem that people are having is that out of context it doesn't mean anything. Your 80 (senior tees on easy course) might be my 120 (Some PGA event that is a 7000 yards with tricky greens and tough bunkers). Your 80 has value only in comparision with other scores on that course in the same conditions. You can try to modify the score using the slope/rating but that isn't an exact science.

It most certainly does 'mean something' regardless of the context, especially to the golfer that got the score.  It may not 'mean anything' to you.

We all realize there are golf courses of extreme variations in difficulty.  I know my 79 was on a course that is not terribly difficult, but definitely not easy either.  It happens to be my lowest score, so it means something.  I played well (for me) that day.  I, like most others posting here, did it on a course I play frequently - we don't just go out and play an easy course to 'get a score'.

I don't get why people would suggest 'your 80 basically has no value' and 'doesn't mean anything' or point out 'the problem' with it.  Geez.  No one is claiming that breaking 80 really means anything in particular, it's just a nice feeling of personal achievement.

I don't play on many really difficult courses, so I suppose my entire game really doesn't mean anything or have value.

[inthecup]

I think you broke 80.  Golf is a fickle mistress, she gave you a little, take it and be happy.

My home club has 2 courses from the tees I play at they rate  the following.  Course 1  Rating 72.3 slope 131 and Course 2 rating 71.8 slope 133.

They are both difficult, they are both unforgiving.  narrow, heather lined, woods, water, forced carries, deep traps wildly sloping greens.

I recently played on some other courses that I was not very familiar with, more then once I hit a drive that on my home courses would have been real trouble, worst case gone best case punch out or lay up.  I got to the ball and had a play to the hole, made a huge difference.  You could be off and still score.  Sometimes I wonder if I am torturing myself with where I play.  I guess in the end I will improve faster?  Who knows as I said golf is a fickle mistress.

[Roblar]

Originally Posted by inthecup

...snip...Sometimes I wonder if I am torturing myself with where I play.  I guess in the end I will improve faster?...snip...

It's funny, but I've had a real jump in my scoring at Westwood (an easy and forgiving course) after playing a few rounds at much less forgiving courses.  I think I'd still be closer to 100 than 80 if I went to those courses (or to the one you describe).  Shoot - I might be over 100 at a really punishing course!

Originally Posted by SpannersReady

depends, On my course I usually shoot at least 5 stokes higher on the out 9 than the IN 9. whatever order I play them in. So if I played the back 9 twice I would score my lowest score easily.

So If the forum lets your score stand then I'm doing it as well!!!

I was playing the *more difficult* back nine this time.  I actually think they're about the same in terms of difficulty, but the back nine is about 300yds longer than the front nine. On the other hand, water and trees come into play a bit more on the front nine -- so it's a bit less forgiving.  ...just looked at some stats, and my average on the front nine is just over one shot lower than the back nine.

[mdl]

Just feel good about your improvement.  Is it the same as breaking 80 on a par 72, 6800 yard course that's super tight with tons of water and bunkers and a 73.2/140 rating and slope?  Obviously not.  But it's still an improvement for you and you should be happy with it.

Myself, I've broken 80 twice, one 74 and one 76.  The courses were both par 72 and in the 70/120 rating/slope range, but the difficulty in the rating and slope comes mostly from the fact that they're pretty long from the back tees I played, while still being quite open with most holes set up so you have to hit a truly awful or very unlucky drive not to have a good chance at having a reasonable shot at the green.  I'm long but a sprayer, so this course is set up perfectly for me to score low.  That day I hit the 74 I had two holes where at a tough course I probably would have been OB and taken the +2 and had to re-tee, but instead was able to hit punch-slice recoveries that could roll onto the pretty unprotected greens where I 2-putted for par.  I had a bunch of other drives just off the very wide fairways that gave me wedge into the par 4, but those drives on a tougher course would have likely left me in much much worse shape.

My point is, my sub-80 rounds have also been on courses that are easier and set up well for my game relative to other courses I play.  That doesn't mean I feel like I've never broken 80, it just means I know I have a lot of work to do still to start breaking 80 on tough, tight courses.

[ggolokin]

i can kinda relate to the OP

the first time i shot under par was at a municipal course which in comparison to my home course at the time, was really really easy. so it felt like i cheated

i shot a 69 from a par 71 and has an ACR of 69 the course is 5595m which translates to 6200 Yards, one of the par 5's i had a driver, 9 iron and i flew the green (thinned it)

so it kinda felt like i cheated to break 70 for the first time

[x129]

It isn't that "Your 80 has no value". All 80s have no value by themselves.  If I walk up to you  and say I shot 85,82,and 79 on 3 different courses last week, you have no way of knowing which one was the best round. Absolute golf scores only get value in context when you can say, "I normally shoot a 82 on this course from these tees and today I shot a 79 so it was good round".

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Quote:

It most certainly does 'mean something' regardless of the context, especially to the golfer that got the score.  It may not 'mean anything' to you.

We all realize there are golf courses of extreme variations in difficulty.  I know my 79 was on a course that is not terribly difficult, but definitely not easy either.  It happens to be my lowest score, so it means something.  I played well (for me) that day.  I, like most others posting here, did it on a course I play frequently - we don't just go out and play an easy course to 'get a score'.

I don't get why people would suggest 'your 80 basically has no value' and 'doesn't mean anything' or point out 'the problem' with it.  Geez.  No one is claiming that breaking 80 really means anything in particular, it's just a nice feeling of personal achievement.

I don't play on many really difficult courses, so I suppose my entire game really doesn't mean anything or have value.

[BuckeyeNut]

What if it was a 5200yd par 65 course?

IMO....yardage and CR says a lot.  Does this course have a CR?  Seriously folks. The reality is 5200yds is an executive course.  My 2 cents.....

If this course is rated, it must be 65'-66'ish.........like playing a par 65 course. (in reality)

IE...you almost might as well play a 9 hole par3 course twice and be happy you broke 80.  OK...I'm being a bit jaded here, but 5200 isn't real golf unless the year is 1875 and you are playing a feather filled golf ball.  LOL

[LankyLefty]

I used to play a very easy course every friday. On my normal course, 7000 yards from the tips but usually more like 6800, I almost never broke 90 in good conditions and if it was wet... forget it. On the easy friday course I played it about 10 shots better in dry conditions and 15 or 20 shots better in wet conditions. Now I hardly ever get to play because of cost and Job and Im not sure I could break 100 today without taking some time to get back into practice.

I think playing an easy course every once in a while is a good thing.

Also it isn't all about distance, if my easy course had been 6800 yards it still would have been easy.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by x129

It isn't that "Your 80 has no value". All 80s have no value by themselves.  If I walk up to you  and say I shot 85,82,and 79 on 3 different courses last week, you have no way of knowing which one was the best round. Absolute golf scores only get value in context when you can say, "I normally shoot a 82 on this course from these tees and today I shot a 79 so it was good round".

I think it's safe to assume in these cases that the <80 scores are among, or the, best recorded by the golfers reporting them, and that they are "good rounds".   That, in itself, has value.  That;s my point.

Technically, NO score has any value by itself.  We all get that.

[Roblar]

I know this thread should be allowed to die a proper death, but six weeks after I started it, I've got an update.

I shot 79 from the tips at Westwood today (69.5/116; 6162yds).  I finally feel like I pulled it off -- I broke 80 without an asterisk.  ...and despite the fact that Westwood is a short, easy course, I feel good about it.

I started poorly -- drove my first shot into the driving range. Penalty-->double bogey.  Man I wanted to call a Mulligan, but I don't do those, so I just figured I wasn't going to have the greatest round.  ...then I parred the next three holes (two up-and-downs) and grabbed a 40 for the front nine.  Not bad.

The back nine started out similarly. I hit into water on the 11th. Penalty-->double bogey.  Then I birdied the next hole (chipping in from just off the green).   Big smiles!  Finished the back nine with a 39 for a 79.

Now: I've broken 80 three times:

79 from the white/senior tees (65/103; 5265yds.  ...but yeah, that's short, and **EASY**.)

76 from the blue/men's tees (67.7/114 ---- but the front nine was getting aerated, so I played the back nine twice.)

79 from the tips (69.5/116; 6162yds ---- would have been much happier if I hadn't started with a penalty!)

My drives are still terrible.  So terrible, in fact, that they often leave me in decent shape on an adjacent fairway.  But I was making the second shots today (or getting close and then getting up-and-down).

[ND Fan]

meah?

play from the men's tees. Under 5500 yards is junior golf.  Keep playing.  You didn't cheat however. It's still 18 holes of golf and should encourage you although it's not mind blowing to shoot 79 on 5300 yards.

[Grumpter]

Congrats, you should feel good about it. Your game keeps getting better and before you know it you might be expecting to break 80 every few rounds. Keep at it.

[Deryck Griffith]

You did not cheat by any means.  You still had to hit shots and sink putts to score what you did so be proud of your accomplishment.

What I WILL say though is that you have to be prepared to not shoot that same score on a course that may have a higher course/slope rating and longer distance.  As long as you are prepared to shoot higher on a more difficult course and don't have un-realistic expectations, you should be fine!

Great topic BTW!

[Roblar]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

...snip...What I WILL say though is that you have to be prepared to not shoot that same score on a course that may have a higher course/slope rating and longer distance.  As long as you are prepared to shoot higher on a more difficult course and don't have un-realistic expectations, you should be fine!...snip...

Yeah. Part of what made me start this was that I played a few courses while visiting family in CA, and I never broke 90 (five rounds), and I was closer to 100 than 90 on three of the rounds.  It seemed so strange to break 80 soon after that experience.  The obvious difference was that missing a fairway got severely punished out there, but back here, Westwood doesn't punish missed fairways much at all (except on a few holes).

I'm planning to play a much more challenging (punishing?) course in about two weeks, and I think my main goal will to be keep it under 100 -- I'd be thrilled with playing bogey golf.  More importantly, it should humble me enough so that I'll find some extra motivation to keep working on improving my swing.

[VCS01]

I also broke 80 for the first time last week, with a 79 on my home course which is a very easy par 70, 5750yds. The course rating rating is 67, we don't have slope ratings here. So am I happy with breaking 80, yes very. Two months ago I was shooting high 80's low 90's on the same course. Conditions haven't changed, my game has improved. Will I break 80 next week when I play a par 71, 6800yds course with loads of water, probably not but I am hoping to be in the mid to low 80's.

So the moral of the story I guess is to just keep improving on your own game, keep improving on your scores which means you have to keep breaking 80...

[ET-Taylor]

i shot a 72 today on a par 69 5400 yards sss 66 i still count it as shooting better than 75 :) i wouldnt not count it just because it wasnt on a big course

[slabm7]

I've only broken 80 once, and I'm kind of in the same boat. It was a par 71, 6200 yards and a slope of 122. I shot a 78, I count is as breaking 80 just due to the fact that is was a decent length course and I broke it by 2 shots as opposed to 1. If I shot a 79 I would be a little more skeptical. But now I just have to go shoot a 75 on a 6500 yard par 72 and put my skepticism to rest. Thats my new goal.