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Solheim Cup


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Originally Posted by nike_golf

How about we start playing these events on neutral ground?  Australia anyone?  Middle East?

Worst idea ever. You want to give neither team a "home crowd" and play the event in time zones that prevent anyone from (easily) watching live?

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I always enjoy the team match play events. Obviously the Ryder Cup is far superior but this was nice. I hate the fact that is was cold - Ladies golf needs to realize sex appeal sells and they have some very pretty girls on both sides...huge marketing bogie on whoever decided to host this in Ireland...any place you need a damn jacket and hat in July (British open) should not be hosting a ladies event!!

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I watched several hour of the event and thought in general the level of play was great by both teams.  Too good to spot the European team a point on the last day, although I'm not sure it made a difference.  I too congratulate the European team and thought they played outstanding and you're not giving them enough credit.  They played very well and I think won the event as opposed to any meltdown of the US team.  Tough to beat a player that birdies the last three holes.  O'toole was undefeated in all her matches and she is a rookie so that is pretty much an unheard of performance.  Angela Stanford made some outstanding putts coming in, they just didn't go in the hole and that happens to all of us.  So I don't think you're giving enough credit to the European team as the last three European player played the last three holes with some outstanding shots given the situation/conditions.

Originally Posted by makaveli

Europe won because of the meltdown of the last 3 US girls (Wie, O'Toole, Stanford), US was winning 3 holes to the end...

Congrats Euro team!



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Originally Posted by ghalfaire

O'toole was undefeated in all her matches and she is a rookie so that is pretty much an unheard of performance.


Not really. As SC rookies, Stacy Pramanusdh and Brittany Lang went undefeated in 2007 and 2009, respectively. Plus, O'toole earned 2.5 points. In 2005, two Solheim rookies (Paula Creamer - 4 and Natalie Gulbis - 3) each tallied more than that. And in 2009, SC rookie Michelle Wie went undefeated and earned 3.5 points. It's just that everyone concerned wanted to make more of O'toole's performance because she was a controversial pick.

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Maybe "unheard of" might have been a little over the top, however it is a pretty small percentage of rookies that go undefeated in the SC and I don't think O'toole needs be apologetic for her performance in any way.  But the point was that I don't think the American Team had a meltdown in the last three matches and more credit should be given to the Euros for their performance.  What I saw was in general some great shots by the Euros that really applied the pressure to the American team over the last three holes.  But I'll admit I was disappointed in our loss but believe the European team played well enough to deserve the win and don't think the Americans had a meltdown but rather played pretty well overall, they just got beat and that happens.

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

Not really. As SC rookies, Stacy Pramanusdh and Brittany Lang went undefeated in 2007 and 2009, respectively. Plus, O'toole earned 2.5 points. In 2005, two Solheim rookies (Paula Creamer - 4 and Natalie Gulbis - 3) each tallied more than that. And in 2009, SC rookie Michelle Wie went undefeated and earned 3.5 points. It's just that everyone concerned wanted to make more of O'toole's performance because she was a controversial pick.



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Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

Plus, O'toole earned 2.5 points. In 2005, two Solheim rookies (Paula Creamer - 4 and Natalie Gulbis - 3) each tallied more than that. And in 2009, SC rookie Michelle Wie went undefeated and earned 3.5 points. It's just that everyone concerned wanted to make more of O'toole's performance because she was a controversial pick.


That was classic. You try to make a point to downplay O'Toole's contribution, yet you botch the bottom line. O'Toole indeed earned 3 points -- halve with Christina Kim in Friday four ball, full point with Morgan Pressel in Saturday foursomes, full point with Stacy Lewis in Saturday four ball, and halve against Caroline Hedwall in Sunday singles. Pressel was mostly responsible for the foursome victory but O'Toole carried the pairings with Kim and Lewis. And Pressel emphasized that she was able to hit comfortable irons into the greens based on O'Toole's drives, and not the typical hybrid or fairway wood.

The USA got more singles points (1.5) out of the two captain's picks -- Hurst and O'Toole -- than the combined number (1) among the seven Americans who are ranked in the Top 15 in the world in the Rolex Rankings -- Kerr, Creamer, Lincicome, Lewis, Wie, Stanford, and Pressel (the only victor).

That's what lost the Solheim Cup. Elsewhere I keep reading bizarre rationalizations that focus on preconceived ideas (inexperience, lack of stroke play wins) and ignore what actually happened. If someone handed out a sheet with Solheim results and the event hadn't been televised or covered in the media, the overwhelming focus and shock would be the near-total lack of singles points by the American stars. The next highest rated American player was Brittany Lang at 29. She won, and overall the 5 American players not ranked in the Rolex Top 15 went a combined 3-0-2.

O'Toole is erratic with approach irons. The commentators in every event emphasize that she doesn't take enough advantage of her length. I was astonished the problem didn't surface for nearly 4 full rounds at Solheim but when it did it was devastating to the outcome, similar to Inskter's inevitable yipped short putts, identical to several from Solheim 2009. Everyone is saying the pressure got to Ryann but the loose wedge on 17 and 9 iron to 18 looked very familiar. Her game is not LPGA caliber in those areas. She gets away with it because of two tremendous strengths -- long confident driving and aggressive effective putting, particularly for birdie. The shot that cost Ryann was the drive into the left rough on 17, forcing her to chop out of the fescue. One of her strengths let her down. Otherwise I think she would have made routine par to seal the match.

Regardless, it was tremendous theater. I'm a bit perplexed that the related thread on this site is so brief, compared to literally hundreds of posts on other forums.

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Hello ghalfaire,

yup I said meltdown cause Europeans were able to turn the last 3 games upside down in the last 3 holes, maybe that was not the most appropriated term but I think you get my point! ;)

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

I watched several hour of the event and thought in general the level of play was great by both teams.  Too good to spot the European team a point on the last day, although I'm not sure it made a difference.  I too congratulate the European team and thought they played outstanding and you're not giving them enough credit.  They played very well and I think won the event as opposed to any meltdown of the US team.  Tough to beat a player that birdies the last three holes.  O'toole was undefeated in all her matches and she is a rookie so that is pretty much an unheard of performance.  Angela Stanford made some outstanding putts coming in, they just didn't go in the hole and that happens to all of us.  So I don't think you're giving enough credit to the European team as the last three European player played the last three holes with some outstanding shots given the situation/conditions.



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Originally Posted by Tiger Spuds

Watched a few hours of it today. Didn't think the standard of play was that great.. but perhaps they just weren't performing their best when I was watching. It may seem obvious, but some of those girls are really short. I think I saw a drive or two land around 205/210 yards out. I assumed they'd all be knocking it out there around 240 at least. Maybe conditions had a lot to do with it, I don't know. Short game and putting were amazing though.

Oh yeah, Christina Kim is really annoying.

Yeah but what a hottie!!! haha!

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Originally Posted by colin007

the muñoz girl from the international team was quite cute.



She is, but want to know something? She was one of 3 Spanish women to join the LPGA in 2010/11 and is arguably the least attractive of them. Look up Beatriz Recari and Belen Mozo. Oh, and Muzoz was ROY in 2010 and Recari  won a LPGA event during her rookie season, so these girls are for real.

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Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger

That was classic. You try to make a point to downplay O'Toole's contribution, yet you botch the bottom line.



Actually, the point is still valid., you just missed it. I did not "try to downplay O'toole's contribution. That's was your emotional read on my post, but  I was responding to a post that said what O'toole accomplished  almost never happens. Yet, in just the 2009 SC, as I stated in my previous post, SC rookie Michelle Wie went undefeated and had 3.5 points. Two other rookies went undefeated ion 2007 and 2009. And Gulbis and Creamer as rookies earned 7 points between them. All of this was stated in my original So, whether O'toole got 3 points or 2.5 points, it's not something that "almost never happens" and that's the point.

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Just a small point, I didn't comment on the number of points O'toole made, I said she was undefeated and that was unusual for a rookie (not my exact words).  I think I later admitted my words, "almost unheard of" were probably over the top.  But I suspect that most rookies who get to play in 4 or more matches in the SC don't go undefeated, but admit I have not researched that.  However I'll stick by the conclusion that there was no meltdown by the US team in the last three matches which was your comment.  In my opinion the European team raised their game over the last 3 holes and the US didn't/couldn't keep pace in those last matches.  That isn't my understanding of a "meltdown".  To me a "meltdown" is a complete collapse and that isn't what happened.  Just an aside, and as stated earlier, if the top ranked US players had performed as expected it would have been pretty much over by the last three matches.  So if there was a meltdown by the US team (and I don't think there was)  it was much earlier than the last three matches.

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

Actually, the point is still valid., you just missed it. I did not "try to downplay O'toole's contribution. That's was your emotional read on my post, but  I was responding to a post that said what O'toole accomplished  almost never happens. Yet, in just the 2009 SC, as I stated in my previous post, SC rookie Michelle Wie went undefeated and had 3.5 points. Two other rookies went undefeated ion 2007 and 2009. And Gulbis and Creamer as rookies earned 7 points between them. All of this was stated in my original So, whether O'toole got 3 points or 2.5 points, it's not something that "almost never happens" and that's the point.



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Originally Posted by ghalfaire

Just a small point, I didn't comment on the number of points O'toole made, I said she was undefeated and that was unusual for a rookie (not my exact words).  I think I later admitted my words, "almost unheard of" were probably over the top.  But I suspect that most rookies who get to play in 4 or more matches in the SC don't go undefeated, but admit I have not researched that.  However I'll stick by the conclusion that there was no meltdown by the US team in the last three matches which was your comment.  In my opinion the European team raised their game over the last 3 holes and the US didn't/couldn't keep pace in those last matches.  That isn't my understanding of a "meltdown".  To me a "meltdown" is a complete collapse and that isn't what happened.  Just an aside, and as stated earlier, if the top ranked US players had performed as expected it would have been pretty much over by the last three matches.  So if there was a meltdown by the US team (and I don't think there was)  it was much earlier than the last three matches.



I know. In essence, we were basically talking about whether her performance was exceptional or not and I realized you backed off. In my last post, I was responding to that other poster who tried to say my point was invalid simply because I gave O'toole credit for 1/2 point less than she earned, which was pretty silly.

But, going back to our original discussion, you didn't use that qualifier, "4 or more matches" in your OP. You said undefeated as a rookie, which has happened 4 times in the previous 3 Solheim Cups. But, even if you want to now use the qualifier, as I said before, in just the previous SC in 2009 Michelle Wie played in 4 matches, went undefeated and earned 3.5 points to lead her team, which also won the Cup.

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