My Swing (Hogan Project)

[Hogan Project]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I don't think anyone cares enough to be angry nor consider it "stealing" Hogans swing.  I've taken aspects of Hogans swing, his grip, his waggle, takeaway, etc and applied them to my body.  I didn't go to the lengths of dressing like him and attempting to make sure every movement I made was exactly the same as his.  I'd say it's weird but no one is angry.

Holey shmoley Batman!!! Say it isn't so.........newtogolf has actually "taken aspects of Hogans swing, his grip, his waggle, takeaway, etc and applied them to [his] body." Sounds like you're just as weird, looney, strange as I am. Guess we have something in common afterall lol. You know, it would be sooooooooooo cool if you would post a few videos of your "taken aspects of Hogans swing." May just help me get a passing grade on my project, and may even help some of the other loonies, I mean golfers here lol.

Lookin forward to your swing video.

[Hogan Project]

Originally Posted by mchepp

If you want to copy Hogan I will offer my suggestions.

1. Read Mike Hebron's book "See and Feel the Inside move the Outside". I think it will help your understanding of both learning and some of what Hogan was talking about in 5L. In fact if you are bold enough call Mike, he is a HUGE Hogan fan, he even went to Hogan's funeral. He loves to think about learning and how to improve it and would be interested in your project in my opinion. I think he would be able to help.

2. In addition to Mike go find some other instructors that love Hogan. I think Geoff Jones, Martin Ayers, and John Erickson come to mind first. I am not certain any of them have Hogan nailed but they can give you a perspective, some things to think about. Greg McHatton has a blob man which is a copy of Hogan's swing (I think it is on youtube) which is another further suggestion to help you on your path.

3. You need to match Hogan's equipment, you cannot expect to swing like him unless you have the equipment to do so, I see you already have the persimmon, certainly that is a good start. I think you will also need: Stiff shafts, I mean rebar-like stiff shafts, nobody debates this fact. Go get some X300 and tip them. Make them as stiff as you can. Make um heavy, probably in the E swingweight range. Flat, probably 4-5 degrees flat of standard and probably 2-3 degrees open. How flat his irons were has been debated. I have seen a 2-3 degrees flat to 6 degrees flat but they were still flat.

4. I think you should not try to match positions. People have done this, I haven't seen anyone succeed taking this route. I guess you could be the first but I think you would be better off first learning his pivot then learning the backswing.

As I think about this I may have more. I look forward to watching your progress.

Thanks for the suggestions and tips Mchepp! I do know of Geoff Jones, and I think Martin Ayers has come the closest to the Hogan mechanic. I'm still looking into the heavy, stiff equipment, as I think it does make a difference.

I did a DTL comparison of Martin vs Hogan about a month ago:

[Hogan Project]

I remember someone telling me that I should focus on Hogans concentraton drills in order to gain a better understanding of his mechanics. They were right. From the address, to takeaway, to "the top", regular swing vs concentration are spot on. This should be all I need to master this part of the swing.

Regular swing is on the left. Concentration drill is on the right.

[visiondr]

An outstanding project you have on your hands! I'm having fun following your progress. This is a journey of discovery that, to accomplish, will require single-minded determination. Ignore the nay-sayers. As my father told me many times as I was growing up: "you can do anything you put your mind to". Thank you for sharing.

[inthecup]

[quote name="inthecup" url="/t/53295/my-swing-hogan-project/36#post_649068"]There is a bit of insanity in this but I think golf has a bit of that. What other game is there where you are "great" one day and horrible the next?

Not to be a dick, but most sports are like that. :-)[/quote] Not for me.

[newtogolf]

You're still a bit loony as I said I read books from him and my instructor teaches Hogans swing, but thats very different than dressing up like him and trying to match his swing frame by frame in a video.  Most people have incorporated pieces of a golfer or golf instructors swing into their own.  The fact you don't see a difference between the two is why I'll not be following the thread any longer.  Still wish you luck though.

Originally Posted by Hogan Project

Holey shmoley Batman!!! Say it isn't so.........newtogolf has actually "taken aspects of Hogans swing, his grip, his waggle, takeaway, etc and applied them to [his] body." Sounds like you're just as weird, looney, strange as I am. Guess we have something in common afterall lol. You know, it would be sooooooooooo cool if you would post a few videos of your "taken aspects of Hogans swing." May just help me get a passing grade on my project, and may even help some of the other loonies, I mean golfers here lol.

Lookin forward to your swing video.

[mchepp]

Originally Posted by Hogan Project

Thanks for the suggestions and tips Mchepp! I do know of Geoff Jones, and I think Martin Ayers has come the closest to the Hogan mechanic. I'm still looking into the heavy, stiff equipment, as I think it does make a difference.

I did a DTL comparison of Martin vs Hogan about a month ago:

Yes, I think Martin is very close to having Hogan's backswing. The flex in the right leg is a bit different, I think Martin float loads more than Hogan did, but someone could debate that. The biggest difference I see is the right elbow position at P5.5, P6 and I think Hogan swung left more. This is where I think John Erickson has more of Hogan nailed than Martin does. John has more of the elbow position down as well as "swinging left" as Hogan did. John likes to call it post impact intentions. I think each guy has a little of Hogan that is why I suggested going to each of them. John on his site wrote about 2 pages of this thoughts on Hogan much of it seems logical.

[Stretch]

You're a nutter. But there's nothing wrong with that.

Good luck in your quest.

[uttexas]

Most golfers can empathize with irrational behavior to advance their golf swing. I applaud you on your eccentric efforts. Your goal of copying Hogan's golf swing and analyzing the benefits of mimicry is flawed. You will improve significantly, simply from the amount of practice you are doing. Looking forward to your posts.

[saevel25]

Its a noble effort, but i will say this, i think you will find that you will play better golf once you feel you reached the point in which your done and you start finding your own swing. Enjoy the journey.

[Hogan Project]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

You're still a bit loony as I said I read books from him and my instructor teaches Hogans swing, but thats very different than dressing up like him and trying to match his swing frame by frame in a video.  Most people have incorporated pieces of a golfer or golf instructors swing into their own.  The fact you don't see a difference between the two is why I'll not be following the thread any longer.  Still wish you luck though.

Although we disagree on this topic, I still have the highest regard and respect for your golfing opinions.

Lol, it's been fun debating with you........it is understood that you will no longer follow.......I wonder how long it will take for your curiousity to get the best of you; the history of the human psyche says you will want to see what comes of the project when I get to 'Take 100'

[mattttt25]

Originally Posted by Hogan Project

Although we disagree on this topic, I still have the highest regard and respect for your golfing opinions.

Lol, it's been fun debating with you........it is understood that you will no longer follow.......I wonder how long it will take for your curiousity to get the best of you; the history of the human psyche says you will want to see what comes of the project when I get to 'Take 100'

Great response, because you and I both know he'll be following.  Great experiment, very interesting.  Best of luck.

[Hogan Project]

For the past couple of weeks, I've been really frustrated with the takeaway, and my lack of focus was getting me nowhere. I would go to the basement with the mindset of "ok.....gotta focus on the takeaway until I get it. I will be doing nothing else with that stinkin 3wood until the takeaway is acceptable. NO full swings, no ball contact, NOTHING else. Get some Marine Corps focus about yourself!!"

And I would start my usual routine.

1. Set the computer up in DTL view.
2. Turn on the 100 degree spotlight that probably gives the neighbors the impression that I am lighting a nuclear reactor.
3. Press record on the computer.
4. Walk over and get into the address position. Hold it for a few seconds.
5. Go back to the computer. Stop recording. Draw a plane line from the hozel of the club, straight through my back.
6. Press record again.
7. Walk back over and get into address position, but this time, perform the full takeaway/upswing in concentration-drill tempo. Do this movement 5-6 times. Then do same movement in real body speed.
8. Go back to the computer. Stop recording. Run the video back of the concentration drill and watch as the club begins its climb.
9. Is club on the plane line? Yell "YES!!"
10. Is my right forearm in position? Yell "YES!!"
11. Is my right hand/wrist in position? Yell "YES!!"
12. Is my left shoulder nice and flat? Yell "YES!!"
13. Is my left shoulder still flat? Yell "YES!!"
14. When hands get to lower back, is club still on plane line? Yell "YES!!"
15. Is right leg starting to become a giant kickstand? Yell "YES!!"
16. Is left knee tired of playing hide-n-seek....now poking out pointing towards the target line? Yell "YES!!"
17. Watch my wife walk through the basement door, and over to the washer and dryer. As she walks back towards the door with a basket of clean clothes, she says "Ummmmmm, who are you yelling 'yes' to down here?" I say "the takaway concentration drill is getting close!! Couple more weeks!!" She gives me the blank stare again, and walks upstairs, cosing the door behind her. Then she opens the door, sticks her head through, and says "You know, there are medically supervised facilities for people like you," then closes the door again lol.
18. As video frames are forwarded, is club maintaing its glued-to-the-line relationship? Yell "YES!!"
19. Once club gets to the top, is left wrist in correct position, and right leg kickstand loaded? Am I in a position to spring the motherbluffing spit out of the shaft! Yell "YES!!"
20. Say to myself, "ok concentration drill mastered. All positions are acceptable. Looks close to Hogan!"
21. Now fast-forward to the part of the recording where I did the real speed movement.
22. Do same frame-by-frame analysis.
23. Watch as club remains glued to plane line, and wrists do exactly what they are supposed to, and legs/knees cooperate.
24. Then withing a half-a-second, watch as everything gets off plane and all positions get out of whack.
25. Cuss
26. Scratch my head and wonder "I can do it in concentration speed, but WHEN THE HECK WILL I BE ABLE TO DO IT AT REGULAR SPEED!?"
27. Go back to step #7 and repeat everything a few times, then get tired of cussing, and forget about the takeaway all together, and just start hitting balls, like I promised myself I would not do lol.


This is what I've done the past few weeks..........until today!!! I didn't cuss! Takeaway is close now. The lesson I've learned going through all this is "what I feel is not real." Video coming soon.

[Hogan Project]

Whew......it's been a while since my last video. Been busy with kids, wife, business, and life. I'm still working on the takeaway/upswing in the early morning and late evening.

In this vid, I'm still focusing on the takeaway. It's getting more comfortable, but there are still a few areas of it that need tweeking. I have been out on the course a few times, and I am absolutely amazed at how the ball is flying off the club, and how it is sounding. I can hear the ball as it bullets away from the ground. Has a whir sound.

I'm glad the weather is changing to cold, so I am forced to stay inside and avoid the course. One problem that the course is giving me is that I still get the urge to play in our foursome, which means, as much as I try not to, I end up wanting to compete and win the money/trophy. I've consistently won it every time now. Bruce says "Man, if I was hitting the ball like you are now, I would be happy.....you need to forget all the Hogan stuff!" Just as I have always said, the goal here is not to play better golf and make incredible contact, the goal is to see how close I can come to the Hogan swing.........but I won't complain one bit if my game keeps going in the exciting direction that it is!

Also, I've stumbled across a few things that Hogan was doing. None of them are secrets, because they are right there in his videos.....

[uttexas]

You are getting the shoulder turn and hand path (you could turn the shoulders steeper), but look at Hogan's hips and legs in the backswing--He significantly straightens his rear leg and turns his hips more.

[Hogan Project]

Quote:

You are getting the shoulder turn and hand path (you could turn the shoulders steeper), but look at Hogan's hips and legs in the backswing--He significantly straightens his rear leg and turns his hips more.

I agree with ya 100% on the action of his right leg, but I see this this only happening in his full swings. In my 'Take 9' video, I'm working towards what Hogan is doing with the short iron. He cuts the backswing off and doesn't get the right leg extended....it's still bent. You'll see what I'm talking about if you look closely at the video at the 3:20 mark.....his right leg is still bent.

Thanks for the info....I'll be sure to get the right leg extension right when I get to the longer swings.

[Hogan Project]

I'm getting a lot of emailed and PM questions. Here are a few of the answers:

"Thanks for coming up with this project! I'm learning a lot from watching you. When I first read about this thread, I said, oh boy, here we go again....another wanna be dreaming of copying one of the greatest golf swings of all time....take that back....THE greatest golf swing of all time. I'm loking forward to when you start working on the transition and impact. There's one problem though, adn I'm not being anal or anything, but Is it really necassery to pull your pants up over the navel?? I had to get that off my chest, but keep it up!!"

Lol...thanks! I should have shown the end of the video when Kim drove in the garage. She pulled in while I was in mid practice mode. I turned around and her eyes went direct to the belt above my navel. I hit one of those model poses out of a golf magazine, where you put the club on your shoulder and turn your head and look into the distance. She rolled the window down, and said, "Why..............................................................why me??????" LOLOL, it was perfect!! Then my 4th grade daughter burst out laughing, so I told her I am taking a vacation day tomorrow to come eat lunch with her, and I'm wearing exactly what I have on now, with the pants up a little higher lololol.

On a serious note, I have always pulled the pants up high around the navel not just to match what Hogan is wearing, but because it makes it easier to analyze and compare. A delicate detail I realized a few weeks ago is that when I pull the pants up like that, there are specific creases in my pants that I am able to use as data during the entire swing, mainly around the right hip/thigh/hamstring area. Same for the shirt.......the creases and tension tell a lot about what is going on. Danm, who would have thought I would have to analyze the dudes clothing lol.

[Hogan Project]

My response to the statement "no one could have figured out Hogan or else they would hit it as well as him." :

Any golf swing can be duplicated, including Hogan's, and even Charles Barkleys. And I know everyone will say "who would want to swing just like Barkley lol??" It's not a question as to who would want to swing like him, rather if you could train your body to do so.

Actually, any human mechanical movement, as well as language, speaking accent, etc. Anyone in this forum can duplicate Hogan. This is expecially true for those that happen to have the same anatomical build, including height, and flexibility. I think the problem is that they haven't broken the swing down enough and put enough repetitive experimentation into it to understand it. I think Martin Ayers has gotten the closest.

The key to this duplication is to break the swing down on paper as far as you can, do as much research/video analysis as you can, and armchair quarterbacking as you can to get the ideas flowing, then remove yourself from behind the computer screen and get many, many, many corns and calluses upon the hands until the mechanical movements match.

A question for everyone: If Hogan himself walked up to you on the driving range and said, "hey young buck, what the hell are you doing to the golf swing! I will show you exactly how I swing the club." Then he grabs your hand, puts it on the club, and walks you through the entire mechanical movement. The question: If you were able to do exactly as he instructs, and were able to mirror his swing, would you believe you were swinging like Hogan, or would you say "nahhhhhh, I'm not swinging like Hogan cause I'm just a plain ordinary guy, and it's HIS swing and he is the greatest golfer that has ever lived."

Now if the statement would have said, "no one could have figured out Hogan's mental game and thought patterns ........" then I would absolutely agree, because we can't measure them. But we can measure every single mechanical movement.

Now, let's say someone (wink-wink) does happen to duplicate the Hogan swing; does this mean they will go on tour and become #1 in the world? A loud resounding NO, unless they have the mental game to match, and can play every type of shot, from every type of lie, out of every type of condition/surface, in front of thousands of cameras/people, under the pressures of having to win to pay a mortgage, eat, etc. My Hogan swing project has nothing to do with matching his mental game, but merely the simple swing.

Conclusion.............allow your mind to train your body and never tell it what it can't do, because both will believe it. Hmmmm. I may have to patent that one lol!