My Swing (sean_miller)

[sean_miller]

No, thank you, that makes tons of sense. In the 2-iron/driver video posted, I had on the wrong shoes (left allo my proper golf shoes in the garage) and was trying really hard not to slip. I have about 5 minutes of swings where I almost fell down. Anyway, I think my on-course swing driver probably mirrors my 2-iron swing because during rounds it feels much more natural and free. At the range with a camera I always feel awkward and stilted, being self-conscious of any apparent swaying off the ball. I'll try to just let it fly next time. Thanks again!!

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

I hope you don't mind but i was looking at a couple of your other videos and it looks like your fighting against a lateral shift away from the target with your driver but you ride with it with your long iron. Some of the greatest players to play the game had a move away from the target, Hogan, Snead and a younger Tiger moved off the ball with their longer clubs but stayed centered with their shorter irons

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by dhanson

are you setup closed or is this just the camera angle?

A little bit of both, I think (was hitting a pull that day). That's the risk of using a single point (range ball) to gauge my position rather than an actual alignment aid. During a round I approach each shot from behind and don't tend to set up that closed.

[sean_miller]

I was able to leave work an hour early on Tuesday and played 5 holes of twilight golf.  Well, 6 holes actually since I played the 13th twice. It finishes at the clubhouse. The flag on #10 had alreay been pulled (to help prevent the local moose from F'ing around with the flagstick and marring the greens) so I just played for the middle of the green. Good strategy - easy 2-putt par (shoulda been a birdie - more of that to come).

On the #11 tee I pulled out the video camera. Anyone with a Sun Mountain four5 and a flexible tripod knows how to set this up. Those 4 holes I went bogey (3-putt), par, bogey (couldn't get up and down), par. Some missed opportunities, as usual, but my putting stroke was just shite that day.

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[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

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After downswing initiated, ~ 1/2 way down, pre-impact, and post impact (not concerned with the proper P terms - it's just for posterity)

[mdl]

I'd say you need to slide your hips more.  You've got a nice power move with your hips from the coil, but your left hip almost doesn't move forward at all.  It makes sense you were fighting the pulls that day.  That power rotation with the hips without any slide forward doesn't let the club come down from inside and leads to long pulls (for me at least).

[iacas]

Originally Posted by mdl

I'd say you need to slide your hips more.  You've got a nice power move with your hips from the coil, but your left hip almost doesn't move forward at all.  It makes sense you were fighting the pulls that day.  That power rotation with the hips without any slide forward doesn't let the club come down from inside and leads to long pulls (for me at least).

I think his normal shot shape is a fade of some variety, likely a baby pull-fade. If so, his swing is pretty well suited to that. I too wouldn't mind seeing a little more secondary axis tilt at impact but he can play pretty good golf with that FO swing sequence, in my opinion.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by iacas

I think his normal shot shape is a fade of some variety, likely a baby pull-fade. If so, his swing is pretty well suited to that. I too wouldn't mind seeing a little more secondary axis tilt at impact but he can play pretty good golf with that FO swing sequence, in my opinion.

With a driver my standard shot is a draw and my misses are push fades. With long irons it's a pretty straight shot with a slight fade at the end off the turf and a sweeping draw off a tee. Mid irons are straight, short irons are straight and my miss with short irons is a straight pull or a straight push. Basically when I'm keeping my club going through the ball on target with 7-SW, I score well. Is this a flying wedge thing?

Yeah, I'd like to have everything aligned parallel at the target. I used to set up more square (and swing a bit more upright), a few years ago but it just never suited my eye during setup and I'd fight straight pulls. Ultimately my irons were too short and too upright for me, but in the years before I figured that out, setting up closed helped me hit the ball straight and work it either way, but like I said, there's always a pull hook or a push fade (or more likely just a straight push with short irons) around the corner.

I would also like to have a bit more of a slide pre-impact, but I need to work on my flexibility first. It's a winter project. I'll be signing up for a lesson package with a local pro again, and now this time around I have some conrete things to work on.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by mdl

I'd say you need to slide your hips more.  You've got a nice power move with your hips from the coil, but your left hip almost doesn't move forward at all.  It makes sense you were fighting the pulls that day.  That power rotation with the hips without any slide forward doesn't let the club come down from inside and leads to long pulls (for me at least).

Look at the tree in the back ground - there's "some" movement forward, but I know what you mean. When I get lazy (don't finish my shoulder turn and don't commit to an agressive move through the ball) there can be pulls. That could be one reason I don't like to hit my driver on the first couple holes (well they're not necessary at my home course, but I'm just sayin'). I'm 44 and never feel warmed up until about the 5th hole.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

With a driver my standard shot is a draw and my misses are push fades. With long irons it's a pretty straight shot with a slight fade at the end off the turf and a sweeping draw off a tee. Mid irons are straight, short irons are straight and my miss with short irons is a straight pull or a straight push. Basically when I'm keeping my club going through the ball on target with 7-SW, I score well. Is this a flying wedge thing?

Yeah, if you posted a DL video I didn't see or don't remember it.

From this face-on-view if you deliver the clubhead with any outward path it's likely that you release #2 (cocking/uncocking the left wrist) a little too soon to keep the clubhead coming down from the inside or on the plane rather than being ever so slightly high. Time the uncocking differently and you'll get the various little shots that you see, from pulls to pushes.

So it is kind of a flying wedge thing. Realistically though you probably are slightly above plane and trying to play a draw from there when the alternative might simply be to let yourself swing slightly over the top and play a straight- or pull-fade.

There's a cut-off line that's right around a nine handicap or so. Most people higher than that, if they're coming slightly over the top, will just continue to do so. The better players, though, will tend to uncock the club to keep the clubhead coming down from the inside.

Bear in mind I'm saying that you're really not far off. Slight, subtle changes are what you're after.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by iacas

Yeah, if you posted a DL video I didn't see or don't remember it.

From this face-on-view if you deliver the clubhead with any outward path it's likely that you release #2 (cocking/uncocking the left wrist) a little too soon to keep the clubhead coming down from the inside or on the plane rather than being ever so slightly high. Time the uncocking differently and you'll get the various little shots that you see, from pulls to pushes.

So it is kind of a flying wedge thing. Realistically though you probably are slightly above plane and trying to play a draw from there when the alternative might simply be to let yourself swing slightly over the top and play a straight- or pull-fade.

There's a cut-off line that's right around a nine handicap or so. Most people higher than that, if they're coming slightly over the top, will just continue to do so. The better players, though, will tend to uncock the club to keep the clubhead coming down from the inside.

Bear in mind I'm saying that you're really not far off. Slight, subtle changes are what you're after.

It's difficult to think about making changes while striking the ball well (relatively speaking - I'm no Luke Donald). Since starting this game with a very upright swing (and reverse C finish no less - maybe somewhat hockey or baseball related but probably overdoing/misinterpreting what I saw Seve and Watson doing?) those high (raising of the . . ) hands at the top have lead to compensations from there on down. I'd love to embrace the pull fade, but always visualize a R to L ball flight. Maybe aiming for the middle (middle of fairways and greens) this Saturday and allowing the ball to curve naturally will be an eye opener.  I'll continue to try and create that R to L shot shape as long I see it in my mind then pull it off (well, more often than not) on the course.

Regarding the index, I'll sit comfortably in the 78-83 range where ever I play. Last season my index ranged from 5-8 (finished the season at 6.9) because I was playing tougher courses.

PS.  There are some almost DTL vids in this thread, including the on-course ones at the youtube link. The camera is never in the right spot, but they are what they are - no practice in between, just a casual few holes on the way home from work. Looking forward to next year!

[Deryck Griffith]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Thanks for not giving us the super slow motion version that to me is becoming the bane of these threads.

S_M - is your bad miss with the driver a nasty cut off the toe?

Super slow motion isn't TOO bad when you want to freeze a frame and not have the frozen image blurred to the point where you can't see the where exactly the shaft/clubhead is...

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

Super slow motion isn't TOO bad when you want to freeze a frame and not have the frozen image blurred to the point where you can't see the where exactly the shaft/clubhead is...

In my case that's certainly true enough. But since I'm not actively looking for "more power" or trying to "stop flipping" the resident armchair QBs can spend their valuable swing app time where it's needed most.

[mdl]

This has been an interesting thread.  Erik's comment about how many athletic and improving but not quite to mid-single digits or better HC players use timing of wrist cocking/uncocking to compensate for slight out-to-in swing plane, resulting in a variety of misses with different clubs, was particularly informative.

And don't dis the slo mo vids!  I personally find the videos with the full speed swing followed by the slo-mo version of the same swing to be the most useful.  If you take a few minutes to edit the video you can still make it 10-15 seconds long.

[sean_miller]

Looked at my swing videos near the start of this thread,  and thought I'd best put up some older recent videos to see where I was after my last set of lessons. I took a couple lessons before the 2010 season, then video of my first couple range sessions before the courses opened up. Once the courses opened in 2010, I never took another swing video, until the ones at the start of this thread.

First lesson at Golf Town - FO and DTL videos the instructor sent me. I think it's a 4-iron.

Next lesson videos my instructor sent me.  3-wood I believe.

Then I took some video outside. One especially miserable day I filmed G10 driver and Mizuno 6-iron, but the 6-iron is too short for me which I can see only after the video. Another day (slightly warmer) I hit some drivers, but took my Clevelands, which even though since lengthened, were a better fit.

[poser]

Looks good man.  Kind of steve strickerish in the backswing and you make a good powerful move through the ball.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by poser

Looks good man.  Kind of steve strickerish in the backswing and you make a good powerful move through the ball.

Thank you. I stopped trying to pick the ball like Stricker or Watson do though. Making sure my divot bottoms out beyond the ball is pretty much all I focused for about a month mid-way through the 2010 season (based on threads on this site actually). Now unfortunately my swing has gotten much shorter with every club (okay with that swing for mid to short irons), which isn't ideal for a driver. I almost need an X shaft because of the abrupt change of direction. Working on that over the winter.

[johnthejoiner]

If your looking to make small changes you could look for some  Dan Pohl swing videos, you've already got a couple of his moves

[Deryck Griffith]

You lag the club nicely and have a nice impact position...the lagging is actually very evident in the 3 wood picture; your arms, hands, wrists are really relaxed.

Have you ever tried to have more of a centered turn vs. shifting to the right on the backswing?  On a couple of the caddie view driver swings, you moved your weight to the right and were slow to get it moving left prior to impact