Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame

[Hatchman]

Remember Pete isn't banned from the HOF, he accepted permanent inilegbility status as part of his deal with MLB.  The HOF can't vote on members on the PI list.  If he would have made the deal earlier, or more realistically accounted for his actions, he would have probably just received a one year suspension from MLB.  

[jamo]

7 minutes ago, Hatchman said:

Remember Pete isn't banned from the HOF, he accepted permanent inilegbility status as part of his deal with MLB.  The HOF can't vote on members on the PI list.  If he would have made the deal earlier, or more realistically accounted for his actions, he would have probably just received a one year suspension from MLB.  

That's all strictly true, but the HOF's formal rule banning players on MLB's ineligible list was not in place until several years after Rose accepted the deal. 

I want to say I think eventually he'll be inducted, but it's been nearly a century since the Black Sox scandal and Shoeless Joe is no closer to induction.

That said, neither of their cases are ones I'm particularly married to. It's just a museum, after all.

[CarlSpackler]

4 minutes ago, jamo said:

That's all strictly true, but the HOF's formal rule banning players on MLB's ineligible list was not in place until several years after Rose accepted the deal. 

I want to say I think eventually he'll be inducted, but it's been nearly a century since the Black Sox scandal and Shoeless Joe is no closer to induction.

That said, neither of their cases are ones I'm particularly married to. It's just a museum, after all.

I agree. I think he will be inducted, but not until after he passes away.

Side note - Pete was my childhood hero. I wanted to be Pete.

[Hatchman]

2 minutes ago, jamo said:

I want to say I think eventually he'll be inducted, but it's been nearly a century since the Black Sox scandal and Shoeless Joe is no closer to induction.

That said, neither of their cases are ones I'm particularly married to. It's just a museum, after all.

Absolutely true.  Some players have done really bad things and are in but weren't on any lists.  

The HOF, in my opinion, like you perhaps, isn't like it used to be in my earlier days of visiting.  Having an induction plaque is key.   However, his memrobelia has been displayed in other areas at other times since he wasn't banned.  Just like they do with home run leaders, etc, that may not be in the HOF, yet.  

[Papa Steve 55]

26 minutes ago, Hatchman said:

Remember Pete isn't banned from the HOF, he accepted permanent inilegbility status as part of his deal with MLB.  The HOF can't vote on members on the PI list.  If he would have made the deal earlier, or more realistically accounted for his actions, he would have probably just received a one year suspension from MLB.  

He is, the HOF took themselves out of the discussion by changing the rules.

Following the banning of Pete Rose from MLB, the selection rules for the Baseball Hall of Fame were modified to prevent the induction of anyone on Baseball's permanent suspension list, such as Rose or Shoeless Joe Jackson

A pretty effective ban, and the HOF cant afford to get on MLB's bad side.

 

I'm working in upstate NY, got 30" of snow, so any baseball talk is good......

Edited March 16, 2017 by Papa Steve 55
finish a sentance...lol

[Hatchman]

1 minute ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

He is, the HOF took themselves out of the discussion by changing the rules.

Following the banning of Pete Rose from MLB, the selection rules for the Baseball Hall of Fame were modified to prevent the induction of anyone on Baseball's permanent suspension list, such as Rose or Shoeless Joe Jackson

A pretty effective ban

 

I'm working in upstate NY, got 30" of snow, so any baseball talk is good......

I stand corrected.  The HOF at its best, again.  A permanent suspension is a ban.  Thanks Steve.  There are a few players on the bubble.

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't know that the sign was there in 1990. Do you?

And… as I understand it (could easily be wrong, I haven't read about it in a looooong time), he didn't bet as a player.

Scratch that. Seems he did.

His issue is also that he lied to the commissioner about his betting habits and the facts came out later. He said he only bet as a manager on the Reds to win. But he bet on other games and on the Reds to lose. He said he didn't bet as a player, but it turns out he did.

He's got a serious addiction and continues to deny it. That is the saddest part. If he reached out to the league after he first got found out and asked for help, he'd be in the Hall now. But he can't for some reason.

[Buckeyebowman]

I think he should be in. The criteria should be what you did on the field as a player and nothing else! There are far worse individuals in the HOF.

And as far as McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens, et al, the studs of the steroid era. They did what they did while the commissioner and the owners were more than happy to look the other way! Why? Because they were making baseball more exciting, and popular again! Then, they were more than happy to turn around and point fingers. Hypocrisy anyone?

[Hatchman]

10 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I think he should be in. The criteria should be what you did on the field as a player and nothing else! There are far worse individuals in the HOF.

And as far as McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens, et al, the studs of the steroid era. They did what they did while the commissioner and the owners were more than happy to look the other way! Why? Because they were making baseball more exciting, and popular again! Then, they were more than happy to turn around and point fingers. Hypocrisy anyone?

Pretty good points.  However, if my memory serves me as a follower of baseball, a few decades ago baseball desperately needed to bring back fans after the long strike and attendance was down @10,000.   Coincidentally home run production went up significantly from the strike shortened season (1,500) to a high of 3,000 in about 5 years.  It's back down to 25% or so.  In Japan, to boost attendance, officials instructed Mizuno to juice baseballs earlier.  Run production increased about 40%.  So I don't put too much weight on some of the modern stats.   

I see discussion here on equipment and golf balls.  Restrictive flight balls for example.  Seem them and officiated games in other sports.  Not sure how many atheletes can actually hit them correctly so I'm not a big fan, except perhaps in coed upper league where men might hurt someone with a line drive.  FWIW.

[1badbadger]

Every sport needs heros.  Pete Rose was a hero to thousands of baseball fans.  I stopped following the game for many years, but in 1998 when McGwire and Sosa were pumping out home runs, I got excited about it again.  Everybody did.  If that's what it could be like, let them all juice up.  Love him or hate him, Pete Rose created excitement.  He was good for the game.

[Hatchman]

Yep.  I agree.  And that's when Bonds got envious, IMO, and went from high 40 homers to low 70's in one season.  What would the equavelent of that be in golf?

80 to a 67?  I still like Bonds.  Great athlete.

[dave s]

Yes.  Sadly, I don't have a vote, though.

Is he even on the HOF balloting each year?  I have a feeling if he was that sports writers who do get to vote would vote yes, and Pete Rose would be voted in.

[1badbadger]

Time has a way of providing a different perspective.  When the betting scandal was first learned about, just about everyone was shocked and outraged.  Now, a lot of us can look past it and see the bigger picture.

It's kind of like when Brett Favre decided not to retire and played for the Jets and Vikings.  Prior to that he was so revered in Wisconsin he could've run for governor and probably won.  Immediately after, he couldn't set foot in the state.  It was 9 years later before things had cooled down enough for them to have the ceremony to retire his number.  People were finally able to look past it and see the bigger picture. (and I'm not talking about the picture he sent to the FSU girl).

[Buckeyebowman]

10 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

Every sport needs heros.  Pete Rose was a hero to thousands of baseball fans.  I stopped following the game for many years, but in 1998 when McGwire and Sosa were pumping out home runs, I got excited about it again.  Everybody did.  If that's what it could be like, let them all juice up.  Love him or hate him, Pete Rose created excitement.  He was good for the game.

That's my point exactly. That's why the powers that be allowed it to go on, people were jazzed about baseball again! And as far as letting them all juice up, that's pretty much how it was! It wasn't just the big names that were juicing. You had to do it just to stay in the bigs!

9 hours ago, Hatchman said:

Yep.  I agree.  And that's when Bonds got envious, IMO, and went from high 40 homers to low 70's in one season.  What would the equavelent of that be in golf?

80 to a 67?  I still like Bonds.  Great athlete.

But it makes you wonder why Bonds would be envious of anybody. He was HOF material before he ever started juicing! A spectacular athlete! But, who knows how the human mind works?

[Hatchman]

8 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

But it makes you wonder why Bonds would be envious of anybody. He was HOF material before he ever started juicing! A spectacular athlete! But, who knows how the human mind works?

Yes he sure was, just like Rose. Great players.   I think Barry was influenced by some of the negative and relentless press put on his father, Bobby.  I was from that area and went to many games at Candlestick.  In spite of Bobby having a lifetime .800 OBP, over 30 homers his second year, 40+ stolen bases, he actually was the first 40/40 guy until they negated one homer to 39, but he led the league in strikeouts.   Lasted only about 6 years with the Giants.  They even had Mays, George Foster and Bonds in the outfield at one point.  Barry had to grow up listening to all the booing his dad took and it shaped him.  

I would have batted Barry and Bobby 4th & 5th, and let then hit the long drives.  350 baby!

[mistermuhl]

Barry Bonds is unquestionably one of the top 5 hitters to ever play. He is arguably the best. Steroids do absolutely nothing to your hand eye coordination. He was intentionally walked with the bases loaded. That's screams GOAT. 

Pete Rose deserves to be in the hall. He is one of the best ever. He broke a rule, sure. But he was the best. And honestly, I don't care if someone cheats, it's fun to watch guys like him play. 

[phan52]

It's absurd that the guy with the most hits in MLB history is not in the HOF. I have to admit some bias because I know the 1980 Phillies probably don't win their first WS without Pete Rose. More for his attitude than anything else, convincing an underperforming team that they WERE good enough.

[Groucho Valentine]

Rose should be in the HOF, but he is never going to allowed to be inducted while he's alive. No way in hell. Not unless he outlives most of the officers in the commissioners office.