Single Length Irons

[rdubya59]

I have  a set of integra forged blades that I  cut down the shafts and swingweighted the heads with lead tape.  I hit them nearly the exact distance I hit them before I cut them down.  I do feel taht I hit them more accurately, although I have only played 2 rounds with single length.    If you research it, you will find that loft is the primary determinant of distance.    Irons were made the same length when they were equipped with hickory shafts,  the 1/2" difference in clubs was introduced after steel shafts became widely used.

[vangator]

Did you adjust the lie angle of the heads? Having the heel or toe drag will affect the accuracy.

[rdubya59]

Yes.  they all have to be adjusted to the same lie angle.

[vangator]

You probably trimmed them to length from the butt end. The original club is tip trimmed in 1/2 inch increments. That would mean a different flex point for each club. Not sure it that would be a real problem or not. My irons are all tip trimmed the same (as a 7 iron). My next set I am going to trim the tip a little softer. Also going to go to a mid flex point shaft rather than a high flex point shaft.

[rdubya59]

I did butt trim them, just wanted to see if SL was a viable option for me.   I'm going to reshaft with frequency matched shafts.   8-SW at 36.5" (lofts of 56/51/45/39/33);  hybrids @ 38" with lofts of 27 and 21 degrees, a 15 deg 30 wood @ 40" and an 8 d egree driver at 42".     I was play same lofts with conventional length clubs  at same lofts and feel that I have appropriate yardage  gaps.   Driver carry is 270-280 on course.

[vangator]

You an go to the 1 iron site to see what your length should be based on your WTF measurement just to verify your 36.5 " shafts. Be advised that it takes a little to unlearn your conventional swing and adjust to playing the ball with the same setup. When you do, you will like the results.

[kenstl]

I have been watching the single length iron market ever since DeChambeau's NCAA win.  I am sure there are some of you that played the EQL irons years ago but since that time, there has not been a lot main stream advertising or interest in the single length iron sets until now.  DeChambeau is playing a custom set from Edel.  I have interest in giving it a try as I have always hit my short irons pretty good, but my swing would break down on the the long irons from the fairway.  At this point, it looks like there are a few players in the market place:

1. 1 Iron Golf.  They sell a couple of different sets

2 . Pinhawk SL irons through Value Golf

3. Wishon Sterling SL Irons - These are new an are supposed to hit the market in March of this year.

I saw there are a few of your playing single length irons, I would like to hear what you are playing, the set make up with regards to lofts in the set, length you went with (as well as whether you normally played std or +/_ on your "normal" set of irons), and what has been your experience whether positive or negative.  

 

[jd1623]

Just now, kenstl said:

I have been watching the single length iron market ever since DeChambeau's NCAA win.  I am sure there are some of you that played the EQL irons years ago but since that time, there has not been a lot main stream advertising or interest in the single length iron sets until now.  DeChambeau is playing a custom set from Edel.  I have interest in giving it a try as I have always hit my short irons pretty good, but my swing would break down on the the long irons from the fairway.  At this point, it looks like there are a few players in the market place:

1. 1 Iron Golf.  They sell a couple of different sets

2 . Pinhawk SL irons through Value Golf

3. Wishon Sterling SL Irons - These are new an are supposed to hit the market in March of this year.

I saw there are a few of your playing single length irons, I would like to hear what you are playing, the set make up with regards to lofts in the set, length you went with (as well as whether you normally played std or +/_ on your "normal" set of irons), and what has been your experience whether positive or negative.  

 

A local club fitter that I know and respect has been doing some testing with this. They are undoubtedly going to be getting some requests for this once DeChambeau starts winning (which I believe he will). So far he is saying best results have only been with players who can swing a 7-iron around 95mph, which is interesting. 

The concept of having shorter long irons is certainly intriguing, but ultimately you would have to do some testing to really find out. Might be hard to find club fitters who are even willing to try this out. If he does become one of the young stars in the game, I'm sure some companies would be willing to give this a shot if there is interest. Either way, I think he's a really special player and I'm hoping he has success at the pro level.

[vangator]

I've been playing SL irons for 2 years now.  I'm on my second set of Pinhawks.  They just updated their irons to include a 4 iron and AW, SW, LW.

I've always been a pretty good ball striker, but I always thought the SL concept was a better way.  I've tried to build a couple of sets in the past by cutting down old clubs, but that just didn't work out.

I've been a hobby club builder since the 1980's, so for around $300, I put together a set of Pinhawks.  I'm a standard length and lie, so I don't need to mess with that.  I never bend the loft of irons, since they will eventually tend to return to their original loft.  I just adapt to what ever the club does.

My first set has TT DG S300 shafts.  My current set (I only have 2 rounds on them so far) have FST 115s.  Both are stiff, but the FST are a little more flexible.

I have a 100+ driver SS, but I have no where near a 95 mph 7 iron SS.  I don't know what the speed is, but I intentionally swing with less effort with my irons.  So, I don't agree with that person's 7 iron premise.  It doesn't even make sense.  You're only changing the length of the club by a little.

With the SL irons, my whole iron game has improved.  I hit the "short" irons very accurately.  The additional length is no issue at all.  From 150 yards, I expect to be on the green.  When I do miss a green, it is only by a little.  The new Pinhawks have slightly stronger lofts, so I'm hitting them a little longer than my old ones.  A few more downhill putts so far.

I'm a 5 HCP, but that is a little high, since I get my HCP from my league and I didn't play last year due to work,  I've been scoring much lower with these new clubs.  I play every week at my local club (123 HCP), and I haven't shot above the 70's the past year, so with HCP systems throwing out 50% of my rounds, my HCP would be about a 2 now.  My iron play has improved that much.  I'd have a + HCP if not for my driver and putter.

As for the "long" irons, I have a couple of par 3s at my course from 180 - 200 yards.  I use the 5 or 4 iron and have no problems.  With conventional irons, I would always try to fade an iron into them since the trouble for both is on the right.  It was a very defensive swing and usually with not so great results.  Sometimes I would try a hybrid, but that was usually worse because I would always draw / hook a hybrid.  With the trouble on the right, that's not the best shape.  So that was scary.  Now with the SL irons, I just fire at the pin.  !00% improvement in confidence.  No defensive swings.

Hope I didn't sound like an infomercial, but I'll never go back to conventional irons again.

There are several other threads in this forum about SL irons.  I usually contribute to them.  You may want to search for them.

PS, there's a company called "Simpletons" that make dual length irons.  They actually look pretty good, but they don't offer components.  Only finished clubs, so they were out.

[Shindig]

You might find some of the discussions that were merged into this thread to be useful:

 

 

 

[SavvySwede]

Ping Engineers talking about their research on single length irons and why they work for DeChambeau but not necessarily the average golfer. (Interview from TST Newport Cup's PING Tour)

 

 

 

 

[kenstl]

4 hours ago, vangator said:

I've been playing SL irons for 2 years now.  I'm on my second set of Pinhawks.  They just updated their irons to include a 4 iron and AW, SW, LW.

I've always been a pretty good ball striker, but I always thought the SL concept was a better way.  I've tried to build a couple of sets in the past by cutting down old clubs, but that just didn't work out.

I've been a hobby club builder since the 1980's, so for around $300, I put together a set of Pinhawks.  I'm a standard length and lie, so I don't need to mess with that.  I never bend the loft of irons, since they will eventually tend to return to their original loft.  I just adapt to what ever the club does.

My first set has TT DG S300 shafts.  My current set (I only have 2 rounds on them so far) have FST 115s.  Both are stiff, but the FST are a little more flexible.

I have a 100+ driver SS, but I have no where near a 95 mph 7 iron SS.  I don't know what the speed is, but I intentionally swing with less effort with my irons.  So, I don't agree with that person's 7 iron premise.  It doesn't even make sense.  You're only changing the length of the club by a little.

With the SL irons, my whole iron game has improved.  I hit the "short" irons very accurately.  The additional length is no issue at all.  From 150 yards, I expect to be on the green.  When I do miss a green, it is only by a little.  The new Pinhawks have slightly stronger lofts, so I'm hitting them a little longer than my old ones.  A few more downhill putts so far.

I'm a 5 HCP, but that is a little high, since I get my HCP from my league and I didn't play last year due to work,  I've been scoring much lower with these new clubs.  I play every week at my local club (123 HCP), and I haven't shot above the 70's the past year, so with HCP systems throwing out 50% of my rounds, my HCP would be about a 2 now.  My iron play has improved that much.  I'd have a + HCP if not for my driver and putter.

As for the "long" irons, I have a couple of par 3s at my course from 180 - 200 yards.  I use the 5 or 4 iron and have no problems.  With conventional irons, I would always try to fade an iron into them since the trouble for both is on the right.  It was a very defensive swing and usually with not so great results.  Sometimes I would try a hybrid, but that was usually worse because I would always draw / hook a hybrid.  With the trouble on the right, that's not the best shape.  So that was scary.  Now with the SL irons, I just fire at the pin.  !00% improvement in confidence.  No defensive swings.

Hope I didn't sound like an infomercial, but I'll never go back to conventional irons again.

There are several other threads in this forum about SL irons.  I usually contribute to them.  You may want to search for them.

PS, there's a company called "Simpletons" that make dual length irons.  They actually look pretty good, but they don't offer components.  Only finished clubs, so they were out.

Thanks vangator, I am leaning towards putting a set together and reviews like yours are giving me that final push.  I'm 6'4" and hit my 6 iron and up pretty solid, but tend to be OTT on misses with 4 and 5 irons at times, and my wedges start feeling short for my set up.  Im starting to think I may even like pitching and chipping in a little more upright stance.  

 

How is is the offset on the pin hawks?  I currently play a set of irons that are all .100 offset so I am wondering if I like the additional offset on the pinhawks.  Did you move from a set that had similar offsets?

[natureboy]

Here's an interesting link on the topic: http://www.tutelman.com/golf/clubs/OneClub.php

[vangator]

2 hours ago, kenstl said:

Thanks vangator, I am leaning towards putting a set together and reviews like yours are giving me that final push.  I'm 6'4" and hit my 6 iron and up pretty solid, but tend to be OTT on misses with 4 and 5 irons at times, and my wedges start feeling short for my set up.  Im starting to think I may even like pitching and chipping in a little more upright stance.  

 

How is is the offset on the pin hawks?  I currently play a set of irons that are all .100 offset so I am wondering if I like the additional offset on the pinhawks.  Did you move from a set that had similar offsets?

If you don't go OTT with your current mid irons now, I wouldn't think you would go OTT with the Pinhawks.  You'd build them to 7 iron length.

The offset is 3 mm, which is pretty minimal.  My previous set, like most conventional irons had a progressive offset.  I like minimal offset.  I have an old set which had 0 offset, which was pretty nice.

The Pinhawks came out as D1 at 37 inches.  If yours are longer (and I believe they would be since you're 6'4"), the swing weight would probably be a little higher.  I have Golf Pride Jumbo Tour Wraps which are pretty heavy, so your choice of grips would affect swing weight.

You would probably require a more upright lie.  ValueGolf can handle that, or a local builder could or you could do it yourself if you're a builder.

I went to the range tonight and met up with a guy that hit my irons and loved them.  His specs are the same as mine.  I think I may be building a set for him.

[natureboy]

Wishon now has an option.

 

 

http://3jack.blogspot.com/2016/01/faq-on-wishon-golfs-new-sterling-single.html

 

[vangator]

Very intriguing.  I hope someone here gets a set and gives us an update.

I think Wishon clubs are not offered as components.  That's a downer.

[kenstl]

Well, I ordered a set but due to high demand (or low production numbers), I am on the receipt of the third shipment which does not arrive until June!  Hopefully someone else here gets a set earlier as I would love to hear some feedback on their shaft choice, length, weight, etc

[acerimusdux]

On 1/18/2016 at 4:35 PM, vangator said:

I have a 100+ driver SS, but I have no where near a 95 mph 7 iron SS.  I don't know what the speed is, but I intentionally swing with less effort with my irons.  So, I don't agree with that person's 7 iron premise.  It doesn't even make sense.  You're only changing the length of the club by a little.

I think 95mph may be overstating it by quite a bit, but it may be true that players who swing less than 75 mph with a 7 or 8 iron might see no benefit with the lower lofts (like 3-5  irons). For a ball speed of 105 mph for example, I get the following estimates for carry and total distance from the flight scope trajectory optimizer here (inputting launch angle and spin):

http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

LA spin carry total

28 8000 136.3 136.8

26 7500 140.5 141.5

24 7000 144.4 145.7

22 6500 146.5 148.1

20 6000 147.6 149.9

19 5500 148.0 151.1

18 5000 148.2 152.2

17 5000 147.4 151.7

Launch angle and spin for any particular loft club is going to be player dependent, obviously, depending on club delivery, but you can see where for this player, if he wants to carry more than 150 yards, he probably needs to increase speed, as he's not getting there with lower lofts alone.  

In fact he's seeing minimal benefit from launching anything lower than 22 degrees, and he could possibly do that even with a 7 iron. Per trackman data, PGA pros launch a 7 iron at only 16.3 degrees, and LPGA pros at 19.0 degrees.  

Tom Wishon, when developing the Sterling irons, originally planned to include a 4 hybrid in the set, but found it didn't work at the shorter length for many average players (link):

Quote

Now when you use an 8 iron length for the single length, you automatically drop on average, some 7-8mph in clubhead speed. That drops ball speed with it so now you can get into a situation where with a very low loft head, you can’t generate enough ball speed to get the ball to fly that high and carry well enough. Such was what happened with the single length #4, for many average players. high speed players were pretty much ok with it for height as long as they were north of 77mph for the 8 iron length. Not that many at that level though. so I decided to shelve the #4 for now and go with the 5 to wedges.

For myself, I think I'd be intrigued by something like a set of 3-5 hybrids at a longer length (say 39 inches) and a set of 6-PW irons at 36.5 inches (and keep my wedges as they are).

Edited April 16, 2016 by acerimusdux