Playing by the rules........ Is there one here who can cast the first stone?

[kevin.chan]

Over here , to make things easy ,

all 3rd cuts

water hazards

lateral water hazard

OB

Flower Bed

Non yellow / red stick

consider OB and follow OB rules .

No need to look for balls and speed games up !

[Deryck Griffith]

Originally Posted by WWBDD

I think some of you golf on the internet more than in meatspace.

Nobody walks back to the tee in a regular round of golf.

Flame on.

You don't have to "walk back" if you hit a provisional.

Definition: A "provisional ball," often shortened just to "provisional," is a second ball played by a golfer who believes his first ball may be lost (but not in a water hazard ) or out of bounds .

The penalty for a lost ball or OB is stroke plus distance. That is, the player takes a one stroke penalty and returns to the spot from which the ball was struck and hits again.

So a provisional ball is a timesaver. Rather than first going forward to search, the player announces he is hitting a provisional. If the original ball is then found, the original ball is played. If the original ball really is lost or OB, the provisional is played with a one-stroke penalty.

Source --> http://golf.about.com/cs/golfterms/g/bldef_provision.htm

One point that wasn't addressed in the above is that IF you are playing a course for the first time and don't know if the stakes are red, white or yellow on a particular hole, hitting the provisional is also key if you slice or hook your ball out of play.  After you hit the provisional, you can go to the area where the ball entered and see the stake.  If it's red, obviously, you take the appropraite drop and play accordingly and the provisional isn't needed.

The key point here is that hitting a provisional is a "time saver."  So, the mistake isn't necessarily that people waren't walking back which wastes time, the issue is that most people don't hit provisional's.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by WWBDD

I think some of you golf on the internet more than in meatspace.

Nobody walks back to the tee in a regular round of golf.

Flame on.

So maybe you should hit a provisional ball now and then if you're unwilling to make the walk of shame.  I've done it a few times, although only in competition, or when the course was still open behind us.  However, I hit a lot of provisional balls in both competition and in casual rounds.  It only takes a few seconds to play a provisional, thus ensuring that you will still be playing by the rules if you don't find the original ball.

No reason to flame, despite the apparent attitude you display.

[WWBDD]

By all means hit a provisional; but more than a few posters here have implied that it's tantamount to sacrilage if you don't walk back to the tee/origin of shot if you cant find your ball. You're playing a game other than golf even. Realistically, one rarely has that option without holding up one's own group and the group behind.

Quote:

No reason to flame, despite the apparent attitude you display.

No attitude, I just get the sense that some here golf in their mind more than in real life.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by WWBDD

No attitude, I just get the sense that some here golf in their mind more than in real life.

Well I can say for me that's true. I get to play 30-40 times a year (including pitch and putt and partial rounds) and there are 365 days in most years so considering I think about golf almost every day, that leaves well over 300 days per year where my golfing is purely imaginary.

[Spyder]

I'm also a scratch golfer before I tee off and a plus handicap in my mind after my first drive. Then, for some reason, reality sets in and I'm on my way to shooting 84.

[WWBDD]

Quote:

Well I can say for me that's true. I get to play 30-40 times a year (including pitch and putt and partial rounds) and there are 365 days in most years so considering I think about golf almost every day, that leaves well over 300 days per year where my golfing is purely imaginary.

Hmmm ... when you put it that way, I play more in my mind than in real life too.

Quote:

Then, for some reason, reality sets in and I'm on my way to shooting 84.

It's all relative ... I aspire to your mediocrity.

[ejimsmith]

so.. i've been following this thread for about a week, and have changed my opinion somewhat.  at first, my attitude was i didn't care what people did, and felt that there's a time and place to play 100% "by the rules" and times where a broken one here and there is ok, and i consider you score still legit (like taking a lateral drop when OB, or taking a mulligan because something distracted you)...

but on tuesday i played with a couple dudes that made me think different.  i didn't have my best outing, but had some shots i was real pleased with, and made a couple scrambling and/or sandy pars that i was stoked about (one was a 7I shot from a fairway bunker to about 8 ft from the cup).  these guys, on the other hand, are hooking tee shots, taking 2 to 3 shots to get outta the bunker, and missing short putts.  on hole 18, i remarked that as long as I don't double bogey, i'd still break 90.  one dude says "same here, but i'll still break 80" and the other says "if i bogey, i still end up with an 89"... NO FRIGGIN WAY were they playing by the rules.  one guy should've been in the high 80's and the other was closer to 100.   i ended up double bogey'ing that hole, and finishing with a 90.   one guys says he got 90 too, and the other claimed a 78.

while i shouldn't care how anyone plays, and i was more annoyed at myself for letting so many shots get away from me, i was still kinda peeved that they claimed such scores when they both were at least a dozen shots over what they claimed.  had i take that many liberties, i'd have broken 80 for the first time!

perhaps the thing that got me the most was the guy that claimed the 78 had been telling me stories about how he breaks par a lot, personal best like 67 or so.  after seeing how he scores, i seriously doubt he's legitimately ever broken 80, much less 70.   AND.. like someone else mentioned, you can tell pretty quick how good someone is, and based on stroke and style of play, i could tell he wasn't the scratch golfer he claimed to be.  i've played with other guys that right off the tee i could tell were friggin awesome... and some of those guys are even humble enough to say "i'm close to scratch, but not quite"...

if you claim scratch, you better be it, in my book.  you can tell when someone is that good, but doesn't score well .. something about their swing and their attitude will tell you "yeah, he's probably better then how he's playing today".. and then there's the guys where you're like "yeah, i'm sure this is how he plays all the time, no way is he better then this"...

[Fourputt]

I think we've all met the guy who lives in that fantasy world, ejimsmith.  It can be frustrating if you make the mistake of taking them seriously.  I just smile and leave them to their magic scorecards and daydreams, happy in the knowledge that in a competition they'd be completely befuddled.

[bogey joe]

Wow......, I had no idea this question would generate such great debates and responses.  Now I want to weigh in myself for a minute.  I can agree with just about everyone who has posted here.  As a tournament player I agree with those who believe in playing strictly by the rules.  For everyone who carries a usga handicap, I agree you should play to the letter of every rule as you know it because your handicap can have consequences to other players in tournaments, as other's can affect you as well.  I do not believe every round you play should be exclusively for your handicap index, there is no way I would be enslaved to the system like that, but when you do decided to play a round toward your handicap, for better or worse be honest and record it.  To those who don't strictly adhere to the rules, good for you too!!!!  It is after all still a game and I say to each his own.  As long as you are not cheating someone and if you and your friends are ok with it, play the way you want so long as it does not adversly affect others on the course.  I do believe we should all strive to grow in the game and all get a better understanding of the rules however, me included.  I am the host of Golf Soup, a golf program the airs on Fox here in Southeast TN.  Some time back I was running a weekly contest for my veiwers, if they could spot the rule infraction that I purposely committed.  I had huge responses early on as the infractions were simple and easy to spot, grounding your club in the hazard, not taking stroke and distance for OB, removing a leaf and moving the ball, but as the rule infraction's got more obscure, the correct and overall responses plummitted.  And me personally, I was reminded how ignorant I was of the rules.  Although I have a fair grasp on the rules themselves, I was stunned at how many times I was wrong about a penalty being a 1 or 2 shotter.  Anyway, after seeing the spirited debates and diverse opinions, I think I will bring back the rules infraction for the show.  Thanks to all of you for sharing your opinions.

[johnclayton1982]

I'm going to post this in here rather than start a new topic.

I'm extremely confused by some of the posters.  The same posters who, here, say that "its not golf" unless you play by the rules and that they don't break the rules and will not play with someone who does, are some of the exact same posters who, in other threads, are requesting that high-handicappers drop balls instead of re-tee, not spend the full five minutes, pick up after double bogey, etc... Which is it?  Do you want beginners to play by the rules or play fast?

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

I'm going to post this in here rather than start a new topic.

I'm extremely confused by some of the posters.  The same posters who, here, say that "its not golf" unless you play by the rules and that they don't break the rules and will not play with someone who does, are some of the exact same posters who, in other threads, are requesting that high-handicappers drop balls instead of re-tee, not spend the full five minutes, pick up after double bogey, etc... Which is it?  Do you want beginners to play by the rules or play fast?

Both.

(By the way, I'm NOT one of those you are describing)

[Spyder]

Speed never really bothers me unless I'm stuck on the 2nd hole, waiting and knowing that my 18 is going to take 6-6.5 hours. That's when I'm frustrated and ready to leave the cart there, walk to my car and go home.

Otherwise, I never encourage speed-play. I'd rather people take their time, especially casual golfers. I take my father-in-law out occasionally, who is a truck driver and drives 2,000 miles a week. I would never rush him through his round, because for him it is a relaxing time out to have a few beers and bs a little. Golf can be extremely relaxing and mind-clearing if you're playing with someone you "click" with. Of course, we do this at a public course during the week so we're never holding anyone up. I would find it impossible to walk away frustrated because he broke a few rules or took longer than usual to play.

Like I said, until money or a bet (of any kind) is on the table, play how you want to play and enjoy yourself. When money hits the table, or you make a bet, wave goodbye to mulligans and gimmie putts.

[Beukes]

I am amazed and rather annoyed by the frivolous nature of some of the contributions in this thread. The Rules of Golf are not open for ad hoc revision. They exist to guarantee the integrity of the sport. If you have ever provided a score for official or handicap purposes without being certain and honest that you have knowingly not broken any rules or compromised the integrity of the game, you are a cheat and should not be playing golf. It is that simple and that rigid, and that is how it should be. Anything less makes a mockery of the tradition, history and spirit of the game. In that sense I will cast the first stone, if that is how it is.

[wmiller]

This ain't religion to most, so get over it.

The way I understand it, the rules of golf started as a way to insure consistency during competitive play, be it a tournament worth millions, or a couple of sheep herders playing for whatever a few hundred years ago. They've (rules) grown into a cancer of sorts, and totally overboard for casual play. In my opinion, golf has a very checkered past, best forgotten. We don't use all the rules when we play football in the back yard either.

You don't like casual play, that's cool. I don't like your intolerance either. Play your own game. I'll play mine.

And around here, throwing rocks at someone just might get you shot. ;)

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by Beukes

...It is that simple and that rigid, and that is how it should be. Anything less makes a mockery of the tradition, history and spirit of the game. In that sense I will cast the first stone, if that is how it is.

Cast away. I do not break rules that give any advantage but often break rules while maintaining the spirit of the game. Beukes would take a long walk to his ball in a bunker with the rake, knowing he will exit the other side, without raking his path until after he has hit his shot (something that will be allowed when the rule changes in January). Beukes will drop his ball on a hill and allow it to roll all the way into a water hazard twice before placing the ball.

I really do think that players who play every rule to the letter are fine. Unless I'm in a tournament, I'm going to continue to stop that dropped ball before it gets tumbles into the water. So stone me.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Beukes

I am amazed and rather annoyed by the frivolous nature of some of the contributions in this thread. The Rules of Golf are not open for ad hoc revision. They exist to guarantee the integrity of the sport. If you have ever provided a score for official or handicap purposes without being certain and honest that you have knowingly not broken any rules or compromised the integrity of the game, you are a cheat and should not be playing golf. It is that simple and that rigid, and that is how it should be. Anything less makes a mockery of the tradition, history and spirit of the game. In that sense I will cast the first stone, if that is how it is.

I like the Rules of Golf. I follow them every time I'm playing golf, and virtually everyone I play with does as well.

But gee whiz, who cares what other people are doing so long as they're courteous or otherwise not affecting your play?

You do realize, too, that the Rules of Golf permit you to fail to finish a hole and to put down the score you most likely would have made, right? In other words, you can play with gimmes and still turn in a score if your gimmes are reasonable.

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

I'm going to post this in here rather than start a new topic.

I'm extremely confused by some of the posters.  The same posters who, here, say that "its not golf" unless you play by the rules and that they don't break the rules and will not play with someone who does, are some of the exact same posters who, in other threads, are requesting that high-handicappers drop balls instead of re-tee, not spend the full five minutes, pick up after double bogey, etc... Which is it?  Do you want beginners to play by the rules or play fast?

That is a great question.

The way I see it is this... if somebody is at the point where they suck so bad that they need to drop instead of retee, pick up after double bogey, etc. then they should just not keep score.  There is nothing wrong with working on your game while playing... it is a practice round... and if they want to write down some score, then whatever, just don't have a round where you picked up after every double, dropped for OBs, etc and then say you shot 95 because you didn't, and sure as hell don't post it.

I don't think most of us are really bothered by these type breaking rules like that for "practice" rounds... The type that bugs me are the ones that ejimsmith described in his post... where you play your butt off to shoot an 89, know you did better than your opponent/playing partner and he says he broke 80.