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Stevie Williams - Racist?


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OK, I'm going to continue to take the high road in my discussion, but at the same time, after some time for deliberation, I'm ready to respond to these allegations.

Originally Posted by clubhousehero

What are you, racist?  Are you trying to imply all black people like to fight and resort to violence immediatly when they don't like someone or something they said?  Are you implying he'll get "jumped" by a "gang" of black guys for calling one of them "black ----?"

Am I racist? No. Not in the slightest.

I'm implying that if you say a racially charged insult at someone, there is the possibility you may get the shit beaten out of you. Now, I can only speak for myself. A person's reaction to racism varies. One man might just be hurt and walk away, not wanted to dignify such garbage with any kind of a response. Like when Jeremy Schaap just walked away from Bobby Fischer after Fischer called his father "a Jewish Snake."

Others may get angry. If someone hurled a racist comment against me, I can't say I wouldn't throw down right then and there out of pure anger. And since I am human, I assumed that others out there might feel the same. I never concocted an image of "a gang of black guys." You did that.


Originally Posted by clubhousehero

I honestly can't believe we are still stuck with this mentality in AmeriKKKa!  all you are doing is perpetuating the idea that all young black men are "Thugs" that will commit assault if "dissed."  I bet you hope stevie gets some "capps" in his white "a******"

If I offended you, I am truly sorry as that was not my intention. I hope the rest of my comments on this thread can be taken into account as to what my feelings are on this matter. I've been condemning Steve from the beginning. At first, I was so taken aback by the comments that I deflected them a bit with humor, but I still said I thought it was bad. I wanted to give myself a few days to process the information before making a shoot-from-the-hip kind of reaction that I may have regretted upon further examination.

I never once said "all black men are thugs that will commit assault if dissed." You did. You are putting words in my mouth. But is it not a possibility that one could get his ass kicked for throwing racially charged insults at anyone, regardless of race? I believe yes because I can't say for sure what I would do if someone did that to me, and my initial reaction to racism directed towards me is anger, so I was really only speaking from my own perspective there.

Originally Posted by clubhousehero

I bet you hope stevie gets some "capps" in his white "a******"

No, I don't believe Steve Williams should die. I was hoping he would get some kind of punishment from the Tour, but he did not.

Originally Posted by clubhousehero

ETA: i'm sure you'll come back and try to say you really aren't racist and have alot of black friends and therefore cant be racist

As you can see, that is no where in my response to you whatsoever.

Originally Posted by clubhousehero

your true self has already shown itself to me.

How so? Because you put words in my mouth? Like I said, anger is a common initial reaction to racism. And I know this to be true because this is my common initial reaction to it.

You can write me off all you want, but never have I once said anything racist to anyone, anywhere in my entire 28 years of life on this planet. You are attacking an innocent man with very little evidence to back your side of it.

If I somehow offended you, I am very sorry and I apologize. But please re-read all my comments on the thread to get a clear picture of how I feel on this issue. I hope you can forgive me. There is absolutely nothing racist about me as a person whatsoever, and I take any such accusations very seriously.

If you'd care to discuss this further with me, you can always PM me.

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Stevie is a legend in his own mind...he needs to be reminded that he did not win a single tournament-much less 14 majors... Since Stevie revels in receiving awards... Adam Scott should g

i think it qualifies as racism, albeit vaguely.  my thinking on it is, okay, when you're mad (as stevie obviously is) and you're talking smack about the person who made you mad, you aren't going to us

There was a great sledge from the gallery at the Aussie Open yesterday: "Hey Adam! You gonna put a muzzle on that sheep, mate?"



Quote:
Originally Posted by majorchamp View Post

I find it funny that Greg Norman came out to completely defend Stevie, but also to say he has NEVER seen racism in golf.

Quote:
Asked if racism is a problem in golf, Norman said he's "never seen it at all."


It's possible he's never seen it himself, but to say that because he's never seen it, it must not be there is ridiculous. Come on, Greg.

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Originally Posted by LBlack14

I live in a bi-cultural family and I am white.

I come from a bi-cultural family too. A lot of people were clearly hurt by the statements.


Originally Posted by LBlack14

Anybody with any sense at all will look past that and not bring it up as a "racist" issue.

Really? I disagree.


Originally Posted by LBlack14

It's the jackass liberal, PC police, knot heads who need to find some other more productive way to consume their lives.

This isn't a political issue. Some people just aren't emotionally capable of empathy. People were offended and hurt. I wish you could accept that and not resort to insulting them for it.

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I love how when a white person mentions anything remotely to do with color they are a racist.....Meantime all the blacks in sports utilize descriptive adjectives that most reading these posts wouldn't allow their kids to listen to....And they all just get swept under the carpet. The dinner was meant to be humorous....He received the award because of his demonstrative reaction once Adam won...He somewhat inappropriately called Tiger's arse black.  Guess it would be OK if he said just up his ass. A racist would have gone a step or two further. Stevie is a good ole boy from NZ and if you ever travel there he is one of the chief tourist spokesmen for the country.  Yea all he ever did was carry Tiger's bag.  We'll see if Tiger ever wins a major again without Stevie on the bag. Meantime put me in Norman's corner of Yea a tad stupid...Now move on!!!  We know when that mike is shoved in your face all those elliquent verbiages will just spew out....HorseShit...

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Right cause businesses never terminate endorsement contracts based on their clients behavior in public.  Businesses may be a bit thick because they don't want their brand tarnished or associated with peoplethat demonstrate questionable judgment or ethics.  Tiger lost a few endorsement deals because his infidelity was highly publicized and as a result impacted his market appeal to certain businesses like Gatorade and AT&T.;  Scott was someone that was pretty much below the radar so any negative associations with Williams hurts his marketability to the general public.  "Who's Adam Scott?"  "He's the guy Tigers ex-caddie Steve Williams caddies for now."

Originally Posted by Shorty

I would think that Titleist's marketing people are watching the situation in the same way that we all are. And not with a view to cancelling Scott's contract. How absurd.

Why not Aquascutum, Rolex or his other sponsors?

Are people going to stop buying Rolexes because Steve Williams is an idiot? Geez.

If you (not YOU) can't differentiate between Scott and Williams, you're a bit thick.

I hardly see how Williams' actions are going to make Titleist look bad. I mean, they sponsor every second player on the planet.

You have to have little faith in your own company if you thought that a player's caddy could tarnish your brand.



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Originally Posted by JetFan1983

OK, I'm going to continue to take the high road in my discussion, but at the same time, after some time for deliberation, I'm ready to respond to these allegations.

Am I racist? No. Not in the slightest.

I'm implying that if you say a racially charged insult at someone, there is the possibility you may get the shit beaten out of you. Now, I can only speak for myself. A person's reaction to racism varies. One man might just be hurt and walk away, not wanted to dignify such garbage with any kind of a response. Like when Jeremy Schaap just walked away from Bobby Fischer after Fischer called his father "a Jewish Snake."

Others may get angry. If someone hurled a racist comment against me, I can't say I wouldn't throw down right then and there out of pure anger. And since I am human, I assumed that others out there might feel the same. I never concocted an image of "a gang of black guys." You did that.

If I offended you, I am truly sorry as that was not my intention. I hope the rest of my comments on this thread can be taken into account as to what my feelings are on this matter. I've been condemning Steve from the beginning. At first, I was so taken aback by the comments that I deflected them a bit with humor, but I still said I thought it was bad. I wanted to give myself a few days to process the information before making a shoot-from-the-hip kind of reaction that I may have regretted upon further examination.

I never once said "all black men are thugs that will commit assault if dissed." You did. You are putting words in my mouth. But is it not a possibility that one could get his ass kicked for throwing racially charged insults at anyone, regardless of race? I believe yes because I can't say for sure what I would do if someone did that to me, and my initial reaction to racism directed towards me is anger, so I was really only speaking from my own perspective there.

No, I don't believe Steve Williams should die. I was hoping he would get some kind of punishment from the Tour, but he did not.

As you can see, that is no where in my response to you whatsoever.

How so? Because you put words in my mouth? Like I said, anger is a common initial reaction to racism. And I know this to be true because this is my common initial reaction to it.

You can write me off all you want, but never have I once said anything racist to anyone, anywhere in my entire 28 years of life on this planet. You are attacking an innocent man with very little evidence to back your side of it.

If I somehow offended you, I am very sorry and I apologize. But please re-read all my comments on the thread to get a clear picture of how I feel on this issue. I hope you can forgive me. There is absolutely nothing racist about me as a person whatsoever, and I take any such accusations very seriously.

If you'd care to discuss this further with me, you can always PM me.


OK,  I'll be honest.  I wasn't offended at all. In fact i don't think what SW said was racist.  I was just trying to prove a point about how easily almost anything someone says in regards to race can be seen as racist.  I honestly don't think you are racist.  However, what you said could and is considered prejudiced.  Look at the second definition here. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prejudice

Something as simple as saying "Tiger Woods is a very articulate black man" is viewed by some as being prejudiced because it means you wouldn't expect a black man to be articulate.

Yes, I did put words in your mouth.  Just like i think others put words/meaning in the words of SW.  I apologize if i caused any hurt feelings over the past 24 or so hours, that was not my intention.

Anyway, in regards to SW comments, If i was in the hypothetical situation where i was surrounded by a group of black guys i wouldn't call them black a******* just like i wouldn't call the stupid or ugly or anything a*******.  Infact, i'm sure they'd be angrier if i called them simply "stupid" instead of "very articulate black men".  When it is the later of the two which is actually prejudiced.

What SW said was hateful towards TW. not all black people.  therefore, IMO it can't be racist.

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As I said earlier I don't think Steve Williams is a racists, but I don't read minds so I don't know for sure.  The remark however was racists, and seems to me that Steve needs to pay a price for such a public remark.  Regardless of Williams' intent it was a stupid act and hurtful to many and should be punished in some way.   If no one else does anything, and I personally think the PGA or other organizations should, I certainly believe Adam Scott should "suspend" or terminate Steve Williams.  If he doesn't I'll think less of him and suspect others will too.  Such comments and conduct shouldn't be tolerated.

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Originally Posted by majorchamp

I find it funny that Greg Norman came out to completely defend Stevie, but also to say he has NEVER seen racism in golf.


Yeah, that's just flat out stupid. He's seen Fuzzy's comments. He's seen Shoal Creek. Etc.

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Originally Posted by clubhousehero

OK,  I'll be honest.  I wasn't offended at all. In fact i don't think what SW said was racist.  I was just trying to prove a point about how easily almost anything someone says in regards to race can be seen as racist.  I honestly don't think you are racist.  However, what you said could and is considered prejudiced.  Look at the second definition here. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prejudice

Something as simple as saying "Tiger Woods is a very articulate black man" is viewed by some as being prejudiced because it means you wouldn't expect a black man to be articulate.

Yes, I did put words in your mouth.  Just like i think others put words/meaning in the words of SW.  I apologize if i caused any hurt feelings over the past 24 or so hours, that was not my intention.

Anyway, in regards to SW comments, If i was in the hypothetical situation where i was surrounded by a group of black guys i wouldn't call them black a******* just like i wouldn't call the stupid or ugly or anything a*******.  Infact, i'm sure they'd be angrier if i called them simply "stupid" instead of "very articulate black men".  When it is the later of the two which is actually prejudiced.

What SW said was hateful towards TW. not all black people.  therefore, IMO it can't be racist.

I hear you, and I'm glad we could work it out here. And I certainly think what SW said was a mild form of racism, but it was still racist, IMO. Also, like Galfaire said, I don't believe SW to be a racist, but I do believe what he said was racist.

Anyway, thanks for responding to my post. I wasn't offended or anything by your first one, but I did fell very compelled to further clarify my statements, which upon reflection, was necessary based on your reaction to it, so thanks for giving me that opportunity to present my side of it. Appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by FLOG4

I love how when a white person mentions anything remotely to do with color they are a racist....


This is a big generalization you are making. And it's completely untrue. You can be white and talk about race without insulting someone.


Originally Posted by FLOG4

Meantime all the blacks in sports utilize descriptive adjectives that most reading these posts wouldn't allow their kids to listen to...


Yet another generalization. Not all people of a certain race are the same way, speak the same way, act the same way, etc.

Originally Posted by FLOG4

And they all just get swept under the carpet. The dinner was meant to be humorous....


So was Kramer's stand up routine.


Originally Posted by FLOG4

He received the award because of his demonstrative reaction once Adam won...He somewhat inappropriately called Tiger's arse black.

OK I agree with this one.


Originally Posted by FLOG4

Guess it would be OK if he said just up his ass.

Yup, it would have been okay IMO.


Originally Posted by FLOG4

A racist would have gone a step or two further.

I think so, yea. Again, SW most likely isn't a racist. But like others have said, I don't know what goes on in that head of his.


Originally Posted by FLOG4

Meantime put me in Norman's corner of Yea a tad stupid...Now move on!!!

I wish it was that easy.


Originally Posted by FLOG4

We know when that mike is shoved in your face all those elliquent verbiages will just spew out....HorseShit...


Could you clarify this point more? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic about your entire post, or what.

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Kramer's stand up routine and SW's comment are not even close in terms of "bad" obviously, but I was merely pointing out how comedy can go wrong.

Also, Tiger has finally responded, pretty much saying what I hoped he would.

I can move on too.

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Originally Posted by newtogolf

Right cause businesses never terminate endorsement contracts based on their clients behavior in public.  Businesses may be a bit thick because they don't want their brand tarnished or associated with peoplethat demonstrate questionable judgment or ethics.  Tiger lost a few endorsement deals because his infidelity was highly publicized and as a result impacted his market appeal to certain businesses like Gatorade and AT&T.;  Scott was someone that was pretty much below the radar so any negative associations with Williams hurts his marketability to the general public.  "Who's Adam Scott?"  "He's the guy Tigers ex-caddie Steve Williams caddies for now."

You must be joking.

How much do you want to bet that Titleist will cancel Scott's contract?

Your house?

Imagine it - Titleist cancels Scott's contract because Steve Williams is an idiot. You'd be a great CEO.


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Originally Posted by I-league

Tiger took the high road one again in his response. Well done, lets move on. Steve Williams is an idiot.



Yeah cause Tiger dominates the high moral ground. Please, those two deserve each other, dumb and dumber.

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Jacob, great point. There are definitely a percentage of the legion of Tiger fans who will root against Stevie (and Adam) and thus his brand is hurt. Hopefully, Adam has quietly told Stevie to STFU.

Originally Posted by jacob1

Racist no...VERY unprofessional yes...That's a good way to tarnish the Adam Scott brand. He needs to just carry the bag and be quite. . If he does get fired a new job will not come as easy as it did before. No one wants that distraction.



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Originally Posted by Malvern

Yeah cause Tiger dominates the high moral ground. Please, those two deserve each other, dumb and dumber.



In regards to how Tiger handles media/press conferences...he rarely steps out of bounds with his words. He might not be the moral compass for how to handle a marriage or a relationship, but he is a pro at conferences and never says a negative word about other players, caddy's, etc...



Originally Posted by FLOG4

I love how when a white person mentions anything remotely to do with color they are a racist.....Meantime all the blacks in sports utilize descriptive adjectives that most reading these posts wouldn't allow their kids to listen to....And they all just get swept under the carpet. The dinner was meant to be humorous....He received the award because of his demonstrative reaction once Adam won...He somewhat inappropriately called Tiger's arse black.  Guess it would be OK if he said just up his ass. A racist would have gone a step or two further. Stevie is a good ole boy from NZ and if you ever travel there he is one of the chief tourist spokesmen for the country.  Yea all he ever did was carry Tiger's bag.  We'll see if Tiger ever wins a major again without Stevie on the bag. Meantime put me in Norman's corner of Yea a tad stupid...Now move on!!!  We know when that mike is shoved in your face all those elliquent verbiages will just spew out....HorseShit...


Lets clarify something. Nobody's ass was called black. He was called an *******. If you call ANYONE an ******* in any form of serious terms, its meant as an insult...even jokingly its an insult unless you are doing it with your close friends and they know your joking. If you call someone who is black a "black *******" you are purposely targeting a feature on their body and who they are as a form of pain.


Steve said it as a clarification to his comments 4 months ago during the celebration. And given the deep anger he holds toward Tiger, calling him a black ******* was not in jest or fun, it was intended.

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