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Joe Paterno and Penn State


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I was never a Penn State fan nor am I a college football fan but I knew of Paterno and it seemed he was a great coach and leader of our youth.  I wanted to give Paterno the benefit of the doubt when the Sandusky story first broke, I defended him here and in private conversations.  Now that the investigation is complete, I regret defending him and believe he and others should be ashamed of what they allowed to occur on their watch.  As a learning institution they above all should know the irreparable damage Sandusky's actions did to those kids and to sit by and do nothing is almost as bad as what Sandusky did.  PSU won't heal until every single person involved in the cover up answers for their role in it.

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I was never a Penn State fan nor am I a college football fan but I knew of Paterno and it seemed he was a great coach and leader of our youth.  I wanted to give Paterno the benefit of the doubt when t

Its absolutely disgusting and yes, Joe needs to go.  For someone who always preached that they win with honor to go and do the absolute minimum that was neccesary to avoid getting into trouble with th

Paterno was given the job about 10 years ago as chief endowment raiser.  His goal was 1 billion.  He raised 1.6 billion.  Annually he gives back a vast majority of his "millions" to the university. I

I saw this posted on another board a while back.  It's actually a post from a Penn State forum that was reposted, therefore I cannot vouch for its complete accuracy or authenticity, but it's an interesting read nonetheless.

Quote:
Joe Paterno, Robert Poole (psu trustee), William Schreyer, (psu trustee, and has a daughter who was a longtime board director of the second mile), and developer Philip Sieg were a part of Pinnacle development. Pinnacle development was the force behind the Retirement Village at Penn State. A project where they took PSU land, and developed it. By the way, the Village is not just for alumini. Check their website. Only 10% of the residents need to have PSU connections to get in the village. They also offer free PSU clases, and many other enticements. Anyway, Paterno, Poole, Schreyer all stood to make $590,000 each on fees, and a yearly interest payment of 15%, on a $125,000 investment, if plans for the Village were approved. The plans were approved in Feb 2002. Around the time McQueary made his report. Also, Poole had secured financing for the project around this time. In March 2002, the developer is getting building permits, and marketing units. Pooles companies, Poole Anderson Construction and S&A; Homes, had also expected to make an additional $3 million contracting fee.
Paterno also was partners with this same team on developing a golf resort and nearby restaurant and inn. He has also partnered with other current and former Second Mile board members on a bottled water company, a coaching website and a chain of convenience stores.
So we have a lot of motive for a cover up.
I challenge anyone reading this, to say how'd they like to pass up $590,000 plus possibly the performance of several businesses. I also challenge anyone to say why its legal, or appropriate for University employees and Trustee members to develop university property, and profit from it. If anyone should have profited, it should have been the University, the students, or us, the taxpayers.
Wonder what other projects they are cooking up there now.
If you go to the retirement village website, you can find their income statement. I didnt see any rental payment to the University in their current statement. So, unless its hidden, PSU isnt even getting that, which was part of the original agreement.
I am not sure why the Paterno family must comment everytime something happens. Unless Joe kept a diary, or tapes of everything he said, or went over every conversation in detail at the dinner table, I don't know how they would know everything he did or said.

http://www.villageatpennstate.com/

I do find it interesting that the timing of this being built coincided with the McQueary incident.

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Penn State needs to just come out and admit that Paterno should have done more instead of trying to defend him.  Face it, he screwed up and everything that university supposedly stood for was a facade.  Only then will the healing process begin.

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Originally Posted by newtogolf

I was never a Penn State fan nor am I a college football fan but I knew of Paterno and it seemed he was a great coach and leader of our youth.  I wanted to give Paterno the benefit of the doubt when the Sandusky story first broke, I defended him here and in private conversations.  Now that the investigation is complete, I regret defending him and believe he and others should be ashamed of what they allowed to occur on their watch.  As a learning institution they above all should know the irreparable damage Sandusky's actions did to those kids and to sit by and do nothing is almost as bad as what Sandusky did.  PSU won't heal until every single person involved in the cover up answers for their role in it.

Agree completely, but I would go as far as to say that this is a wound that only a long period of time can heal. The scar will always remain though.

I think Paterno would agree as well though, given his last remarks before passing away.

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Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer

Penn State needs to just come out and admit that Paterno should have done more instead of trying to defend him.  Face it, he screwed up and everything that university supposedly stood for was a facade.  Only then will the healing process begin.

I guess you missed the press conference yesterday...

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Originally Posted by Gresh24

I guess you missed the press conference yesterday...

I think if PSU voluntarily suspended it's football program for a year, the outrage would die down.

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Only then will the healing process begin.

Won't we see lawsuits by the victims first? (Honest question. If that came off as snarky I didn't intend it.)

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Originally Posted by Kapanda

Yeah, I was going to touch on that.

I opened the link you gave, and it heads out with "Saint Joe No More". That much is undoubtedly true! The guy was grossly negligent beyond mere partial involvement. If this was known by the board that summarily fired him back when the story first broke, then they did the right thing without a doubt.

But having read the highlights, it seems like the concealment that they spoke is simply that, being aware of condemning facts, they simply decided not to let these facts be known. They were scared of the bad publicity.

Originally Posted by Kapanda

Not reporting equates to a cover up?

That sounds like a bad definition of the expression.

You might not be aware of it but virtually everyone in education is a mandated reporter.  As a teacher I have an affirmative obligation to report any suspicion I have that a child is being abused physically, sexually, or emotionally.  If it is happening and I have reason to be suspicious (not have proof, just have a reasonable suspicion) then I have to report it.  If I don't I risk losing my job and my teaching credential.

This applies at every level of education and Paterno and his staff were all mandated reporters.  So not reporting things they knew or reasonably suspected IS a violation.  But beyond there is the moral issue.  Can it ever be morally defensible to stand by and allow conditions to exist that put kids at risk of being raped by a pedophile?

I think Penn State needs a top to bottom cleansing.  Kill the football program for a few years and expunge every mention of Paterno from the grounds.   Fundamentally this happened because at Penn State football was god and Paterno was the high priest.  That culture needs to be stamped out.  Not just for the good of Penn State but as a cautionary tale for the many other Division 1 schools were football has assumed a far too important place.  They may not have faced the same tests that Pen State faced (and failed) but they have their own lesser tests and they generally fail, as evidenced by the fact that only 10 division 1 schools have not had NCAA violations.

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Originally Posted by turtleback

You might not be aware of it but virtually everyone in education is a mandated reporter.  As a teacher I have an affirmative obligation to report any suspicion I have that a child is being abused physically, sexually, or emotionally.  If it is happening and I have reason to be suspicious (not have proof, just have a reasonable suspicion) then I have to report it.  If I don't I risk losing my job and my teaching credential.

This applies at every level of education and Paterno and his staff were all mandated reporters.  So not reporting things they knew or reasonably suspected IS a violation.  But beyond there is the moral issue.  Can it ever be morally defensible to stand by and allow conditions to exist that put kids at risk of being raped by a pedophile?

I think Penn State needs a top to bottom cleansing.  Kill the football program for a few years and expunge every mention of Paterno from the grounds.   Fundamentally this happened because at Penn State football was god and Paterno was the high priest.  That culture needs to be stamped out.  Not just for the good of Penn State but as a cautionary tale for the many other Division 1 schools were football has assumed a far too important place.  They may not have faced the same tests that Pen State faced (and failed) but they have their own lesser tests and they generally fail, as evidenced by the fact that only 10 division 1 schools have not had NCAA violations.

I was not aware of that actually. That does clarify a lot.

The moral issue is definitely unquestionable.

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Originally Posted by turtleback

This applies at every level of education and Paterno and his staff were all mandated reporters.  So not reporting things they knew or reasonably suspected IS a violation.  But beyond there is the moral issue.  Can it ever be morally defensible to stand by and allow conditions to exist that put kids at risk of being raped by a pedophile?

I'm not entirely sure that's true. College professors (etc.) aren't governed by a lot of the same rules as my wife, for example. They don't need the same clearances, etc.

It's probably true, but "education" is different at the college level. You can hire anyone you want to teach a college subject - we often had outside people teach a class at my university - but if you want to teach seventh grade math you need to have certain things in order. You can't just be "good at math" and "free Tuesday and Thursday nights for two hours." :-)

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Originally Posted by iacas

I'm not entirely sure that's true. College professors (etc.) aren't governed by a lot of the same rules as my wife, for example. They don't need the same clearances, etc.

It's probably true, but "education" is different at the college level. You can hire anyone you want to teach a college subject - we often had outside people teach a class at my university - but if you want to teach seventh grade math you need to have certain things in order. You can't just be "good at math" and "free Tuesday and Thursday nights for two hours." :-)

Actually, I saw it reported that in the state of Pennsylvania, they are required to report it.

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FWIW, I go to the University of Delaware. Not in PA obviously so the laws can be drastically different for all I know, but as a measuring stick for the way other public universities are responding, he's the email I got this morning (put in a spoiler so it doesn't take the entire page): [SPOILER=Warning: Spoiler!]On November 15, 2011, shortly after the release of the Pennsylvania grand jury report on child sexual abuse at Pennsylvania State University, I sent an email message to all faculty and staff at the University of Delaware reminding them of University's mandatory procedure for reporting abuse to state authorities. Now, with new media coverage being generated by yesterday's release of Louis Freeh's report to the Penn State Board of Trustees, it is a good moment to be reminded again of the legal obligation we all have to report child sexual abuse. Delaware has a comprehensive law -- the Delaware Child Abuse Protection Act -- on mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse. Here is a link to the Delaware law: http://delcode.delaware.gov/title16/c009/sc01/index.shtml The Delaware Child Abuse Protection Act applies to ANY person in Delaware who knows about child abuse or has good-faith reason to suspect that someone has committed child abuse. This means ANY member of our University community, including any student, faculty member or staff member. "Child" means any person under the age of 18. Delaware has a prescribed reporting process. The law requires reports to be made to the Department of Services for Children, Youth and Their Families. Reports must ordinarily be made by telephone. The Delaware Department of Services for Children, Youth and Their Families has a special website containing information on mandatory reporting requirements in Delaware. Here's the link: http://kids.delaware.gov/fs/fs_iseethesigns.shtml The state maintains a toll-free "Child Abuse and Neglect Report Line." The line is staffed 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The toll-free number is 1-800-292-9582. If you see, hear about or know about possible child abuse on our campus, you must take the following three steps: (1) You must immediately contact University Police by calling 911 or 302-831-2222. (2) You must immediately report what you know by calling the state's child abuse reporting line at 1-800-292-9582. (3) Once you have made your telephone reports to University Police and Delaware's Department of Services for Children, Youth and Their Families, you must inform your immediate supervisor, who will in turn notify the appropriate vice president. Immediate action is essential to protect all children on our campus, and is required by Delaware law. If you have any questions, please call the General Counsel's Office at (302) 831-7366 or email us at generalcounsel@udel.edu. The text of this communication has been posted on the General Counsel's website at www.udel.edu/generalcounsel/announcement.html. This communication deals only with child abuse as defined in Delaware's mandatory reporting statute. The University has policies and procedures to address other forms of abuse, discrimination and harassment. For more information, please check the University's "Stop Hate" website at www.udel.edu/stophate. Thank you. This email is approved by Larry White, vice president and general counsel. [/SPOILER]
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Originally Posted by jamo

FWIW, I go to the University of Delaware. Not in PA obviously so the laws can be drastically different for all I know, but as a measuring stick for the way other public universities are responding, he's the email I got this morning (put in a spoiler so it doesn't take the entire page):

Right, so they have a state-wide "law" mandating that anyone, anywhere, ever has a duty to report it (I feel like it's a bit like Seinfeld's final episode). It's not something - in Delaware - that's just for "educators." Unless I read it wrong.

Either way, legal obligation or not, they had moral and human reasons to report it, and ensure that something was done about it, and failed to do so.

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Originally Posted by turtleback

You might not be aware of it but virtually everyone in education is a mandated reporter.  As a teacher I have an affirmative obligation to report any suspicion I have that a child is being abused physically, sexually, or emotionally.  If it is happening and I have reason to be suspicious (not have proof, just have a reasonable suspicion) then I have to report it.  If I don't I risk losing my job and my teaching credential.

This applies at every level of education and Paterno and his staff were all mandated reporters.  So not reporting things they knew or reasonably suspected IS a violation.  But beyond there is the moral issue.  Can it ever be morally defensible to stand by and allow conditions to exist that put kids at risk of being raped by a pedophile?

I think Penn State needs a top to bottom cleansing.  Kill the football program for a few years and expunge every mention of Paterno from the grounds.   Fundamentally this happened because at Penn State football was god and Paterno was the high priest.  That culture needs to be stamped out.  Not just for the good of Penn State but as a cautionary tale for the many other Division 1 schools were football has assumed a far too important place.  They may not have faced the same tests that Pen State faced (and failed) but they have their own lesser tests and they generally fail, as evidenced by the fact that only 10 division 1 schools have not had NCAA violations.

disagree.   Paterno is legend here.    No one is saying he should not have done more & I'm not in any way defending his not taking control of this situation and busting Sandusky.     Simple fact of the matter is that life will go on at Penn State & his legacy will be tarnished only for the short term.     He will always be JoPa here ...

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Originally Posted by iacas

I'm not entirely sure that's true. College professors (etc.) aren't governed by a lot of the same rules as my wife, for example. They don't need the same clearances, etc.

It's probably true, but "education" is different at the college level. You can hire anyone you want to teach a college subject - we often had outside people teach a class at my university - but if you want to teach seventh grade math you need to have certain things in order. You can't just be "good at math" and "free Tuesday and Thursday nights for two hours." :-)


It is required under federal law.  The Freeh report discusses it at some length.  The details of the obligation may vary but the substance is there.

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Originally Posted by inthehole

disagree.   Paterno is legend here.    No one is saying he should not have done more & I'm not in any way defending his not taking control of this situation and busting Sandusky.     Simple fact of the matter is that life will go on at Penn State & his legacy will be tarnished only for the short term.     He will always be JoPa here ...


I strongly doubt it, but if you are right then shame on Penn State and shame on Happy Valley.

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Originally Posted by turtleback

I strongly doubt it, but if you are right then shame on Penn State and shame on Happy Valley.

This is so true.

Listening to some of the Penn State supporters try and defend Paterno's 'legacy' reminds me of a disturbing conversation I had with a German foreign exchange student a decade and a half ago.  Her father had been a high ranking official in East Germany before the wall came down, and her grandfather had been in "the party".  Never determined if she meant Nazi or Communist; or both.

Anyway, she actually tried to defend Hitler by saying that he "wasn't all bad" because he improved the infrastructure and "built roads and trains".

By the same tortured logic, Paterno isn't all that bad.

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