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iacas

Simple, Specific, Slow, Short, and Success - The Five "S"s of Great Practice

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31 minutes ago, Slowcelica said:

Saw this video recently on how to practice changes in your swing, I think this goes good with this thread.

Perhaps I should've had this revelation a while ago, but I need to use a ball in my foyer when I do these slow motion swings! I have been fully on board with this whole 5S's thing for a little while now, and it has been paying off. The biggest issue I have is reproducing what I do slowly ( at home) when I'm at the range.... perhaps because I don't use a ball at home!?!? I'm sure it's been mentioned to me before, but the video brings it home. Thanks for posting.

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1 minute ago, RandallT said:

Perhaps I should've had this revelation a while ago, but I need to use a ball in my foyer when I do these slow motion swings! I have been fully on board with this whole 5S's thing for a little while now, and it has been paying off. The biggest issue I have is doing what I do slowly at the range.... perhaps because I don't use a ball at home!?!? I'm sure it's been mentioned to me before, but the video brings it home. Thanks for posting.

Yea I too have not used a ball when doing slow motion work, i'm going to give it a try too.

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17 hours ago, Slowcelica said:

Saw this video recently on how to practice changes in your swing, I think this goes good with this thread.

 

I saw that when he took the entire swing slow the ball did not launch at angle off the club but looked like he bladed it. Is this normal for a slow swing? Because that has thrown me off and gives me the hit impulse and need to flip feel in super slow swings.

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18 minutes ago, AbsoluteTruths said:

I saw that when he took the entire swing slow the ball did not launch at angle off the club but looked like he bladed it. Is this normal for a slow swing? Because that has thrown me off and gives me the hit impulse and need to flip feel in super slow swings.

You should not really care about where the ball goes or how well you hit it, when working on a piece, that is something I've had to work on too. The focus should be on the piece you are trying to change, not making solid contact.

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13 minutes ago, Slowcelica said:

You should not really care about where the ball goes or how well you hit it, when working on a piece, that is something I've had to work on too. The focus should be on the piece you are trying to change, not making solid contact.

Thanks, my coach has me working on half swings like from p5/6 to p7/8.

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24 minutes ago, Slowcelica said:

You should not really care about where the ball goes or how well you hit it, when working on a piece, that is something I've had to work on too. The focus should be on the piece you are trying to change, not making solid contact.

Seconded.

Sometimes I'm happy to hit a few shanks in a row because it means I'm doing my piece properly (or better, at least).

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I don't remember if I quoted this here before, but at the risk of repeating myself, I have this saved away in my notes for quick reference and try and reread it now and again:

Motor Learning and Performance
From Principles to Application
Fifth Edition
Richard A. Schmidt
Timothy D. Lee
 
Quote

Learning Versus Performance During Practice

Perhaps it is obvious that when learners acquire a new skill, they do so by doing something different than they had done earlier. The processes leading to learning require that the learner change something in the movement patterning, hopefully so the performance becomes more effective. Yet, when assisting learners during practice, many instructors encourage learners to “do your best” on each practice attempt. This generates two conflicting practice goals: performing as well as possible in practice versus learning as much as possible in practice by attempting to change movement patterning.

The learner who attempts to perform as well as possible in practice tends to be inhibited from modifying (“experimenting with”) movements from attempt to attempt, which detracts from learning. The approach for maximizing performance, repeating the most effective pattern discovered so far, is not effective for learning in part because it discourages such experimentation. One way to separate these conflicting practice goals is to provide two fundamentally different activities during practice—practice sessions and test sessions.

First, provide practice sessions in which you instruct the learners simply to avoid repeating what they did earlier. Tell the learner to try different styles of movement control to discover some more effective pattern of action. You can guide the learning by suggesting specific ways to alter the movement, helping the learner eliminate inappropriate patterns. The learner should know that performance quality is not critical during this practice period, and that the only goal is to discover some new way to execute the skill that will be more effective in the long term.

Of course, the measure of the effectiveness of this learning progress is a test of some kind. After several minutes in the practice session, the instructor could announce a switch to a “test session,” in which the next five attempts are treated as “a test.” In the test session the learner is to perform as well as possible, using the best estimate gained so far of the movement pattern for the most proficient performance. After the test session, the learner has some idea of his progress and can return to the practice mode to continue searching for more effective movement patterning. Such tests could be formally evaluated and graded, but they can also be effective if given only for the student's own information. Evaluating progress by asking learners to compile their own test scores is an excellent method to help them assess their own progress; it is both motivating and educational.

 

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Can we add a 6th "S" to this?  SORE

Continued my winter lessons this weekend.  We really began to focus on creating more width in my swing to regain some lost power and shallow-out the downswing.  I've gotten more narrow & compact over time (especially now watching on video), so it's a change that I'm all for.

Posting in this thread because, like many others here, feel these "S's" really make for great practice.  Implementing the "slow" factor while rehearsing extension/width going back & up to the top....over and over again...was exhausting.  Definitely a motion that my core and lat muscles were not used to at all, and the next morning it felt like I was hit by a truck.  It's the good type of sore, and that means progress!  

   

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10 minutes ago, Let it Fly said:

Can we add a 6th "S" to this?  SORE

Only if we can add another one: Short of breath. I've talked about it before, but sometimes I get short of breath practicing because I'm taking swings or doing things that take intense concentration and holding my body in certain ways or exaggerating and feeling things, I'll sometimes forget to breathe.

But no, "sore" isn't really an "s". :-) Maybe you can roll that one into "S"uccess!? :-D

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

I've talked about it before, but sometimes I get short of breath practicing

Much better way of describing it versus "exhausting."  I haven't gotten to any threads where it's discussed, but experiencing it in golf was certainly a first for me.  Thanks for coming back to it.

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The video above was posted in another thread, but thought I'd mention the idea discussed at around 3:40. That one can practice in your brain to make progress on a physical task. 

They highlight a study with two groups of players where one group practiced one-handed free throws (basketball), the other just thought about how they would shoot one-handed free throws. The takeaway was that for skilled players, the mere act of practicing by concentrating your mind can pay dividends. 

As I solidify some pieces using the 5 S's techniques above, this seems believable to me. I can struggle with a certain feel in the physical practice session, take a break, and at some point later let my mind visualize what my body needs to do. When I return to the next physical practice session, I can sometimes then feel more clarity about what needs to be done, just by having focused my thoughts to making the muscles work in a certain way. 

Almost as if the "thought practice session" was just as good as a physical session- or at least quite complementary.

 

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On 12/24/2011 at 3:24 AM, iacas said:

Success - If you can have a simple, specific idea, and practice it with slow and/or short swings at the edge of your ability, constantly making small mistakes with instant corrections, you'll have success with every swing you take.

I like the 5 "S", but this last one I thought meant defining success criteria.

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18 minutes ago, Howling Coyote said:

I like the 5 "S", but this last one I thought meant defining success criteria.

Success doesn't mean hitting the ball awesome. It means changing, improving.

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The only way I found effective for me to improve my mechanics was simply to remove the ball from the equation.

I reintroduced the ball after I had a good handle on the feel of the change.  (Verified by video, obviously)

Changing the shape of a swing is not tough without a ball.  I don't see why you need the ball there.

I took out my brother in law on the range his first time.  After about fifteen minutes on his front lawn with my hybrid he was making a pretty decent swing.

On the range he carried it around 190-200 several times.  He never swung a club before.  Obviously his contact was not consistent but still.

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On 3/11/2017 at 9:37 PM, RandallT said:

The video above was posted in another thread, but thought I'd mention the idea discussed at around 3:40. That one can practice in your brain to make progress on a physical task. 

They highlight a study with two groups of players where one group practiced one-handed free throws (basketball), the other just thought about how they would shoot one-handed free throws. The takeaway was that for skilled players, the mere act of practicing by concentrating your mind can pay dividends. 

As I solidify some pieces using the 5 S's techniques above, this seems believable to me. I can struggle with a certain feel in the physical practice session, take a break, and at some point later let my mind visualize what my body needs to do. When I return to the next physical practice session, I can sometimes then feel more clarity about what needs to be done, just by having focused my thoughts to making the muscles work in a certain way. 

Almost as if the "thought practice session" was just as good as a physical session- or at least quite complementary.

 

I read somewhere when you sleep, your mind/body "consolidates" the practice you did during the day, this takes it a step further. It makes sense to me, positive reinforcement of thought process associated with movement.

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I think people forget about one major thing when practicing, PRESSURE.

Let's say that you have a practice game where you attempt to get 10/20 (just starting out) balls inside of 2 feet, putting from 20'.  Once you get to where you can get 10, see if you can get 15.  Once you get 15, go for all 20.  Now..once you do this, most people will just stop, say, my lag putting is good, I can move on to something else.  But not yet.  Instead of shrinking the target area (which isn't necessary), lower the number of chances.  Try to get 5/10 into that same circle.  This may sound silly, because you say, I just hit 20 in a row.  But mentally, this puts a little more pressure on you, because your "chances at failure" are more limited.  Once you can do this, see how many out of 5 you can get.  Then try to hit 2/3.  Eventually, you will work down to where you have ONE chance to get it, and that's where you will feel the most pressure, and hopefully be able to get that 1/1 which means that you are able to perform the putt at will.

Also, go through your full routine with every attempt.  WHY?  Because it keeps you from getting "set" with your stance and alignment, and just hitting the same putt over and over.  YES, you ARE hitting the same putt over and over, but going through your routine "resets" everything, and forces you to get back to that proper stance/alignment position, and mimics real-world events.

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There is a lot of good information and opinions in this thread.

About a year ago I lost my swing and have been working to get it back and improve since.

After reading an article and seeing a YouTube video of Been Hogan practicing at like 10% (the ball only went a few feet) I tried the slow swings but I find it very difficult. I think it is because I don't know if I'm even doing what I want to work on correctly.

There are a few things I've read in this thread that I plan to use in my next practice session.

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