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Smart Phone GPS Now Not Allowed?


iacas
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As for the 99%er issue, that's a bunch of hogwash. The rules aren't in place to sell GPSes, there are perfectly non-conspiratorial reasons for them. A perfectly serviceable GPS can be had for less than the cost of a typical wedge if you really need one (and the difference between that and the cost of the app is even less). But face it, there are advantages to be had from more expensive equipment. There's just no way around that. The USGA and R&A; aren't making it that way.



uh...hogwash..I don't think so. I just want to use my $29 phone app for the same info that you got with the way more expensive gadget - golf is an honor game - ia m not using my phone for any other reason. Who said anything about the R&A; conspiring - I never said that - you did.

" But face it, there are advantages to be had from more expensive equipment." exactly ... which is why I think the ruling is idiotic - to each his own.

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Originally Post

So now I have to go buy a $200-$400 fancy GPS gadget or rangefinder instead of using the $29 golf logix one attached to my phone.


No you don't.

People survived without rangefinders and GPS devices. You don't HAVE to have one.

Are you also going to claim that it's unfair because someone else has $600 worth of Gore-Tex raingear and you have an old raincoat?

Unless you are playing in a high level event where ALL devices are banned, I would expect that half the other players are using their smartphones anyway. I wouldn't be too concerned.

In the race of life, always back self-interest. At least you know it's trying.

 

 

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Originally Posted by iacas

Golf is a game of honor but at the same time it's also a game played in plain view.


Which makes it amazing that people like Michelle Wie can be watched and filmed and still claim to be innocent of breaking a rule when she blatantly grounded her club in a hazard a couple of years back.

Cynical as it may seem, a lot of the rules infractions pros call upon themselves are, I believe, done through fear of being recorded on HD high speed video. Not all of course, certainly not most, but some, for sure. There is no shortage of stories about players misbehaving (cheating) - the classic being Gary Player addressing the ball with a 3 wood to improve his lie and then deciding that he might use a 6 iron instead, given that he's only 170 yards out.

All this talk about golf being an "honour" game does not wash when you read so many attitudes on this and other forums (fora?)

Having said that. I lost a match last year and the guy was using an iphone with GolfShot or some app as a GPS.

I knew it was illegal, he probably didn't but I certainly didn't call him out on it because it didn't beat me, he did.

I didn't see him having any advantage over me and I wouldn't be bothered if someone in a casual or even comp round was using a GPS app. Doesn't amount to the same thing as letting people have 3 foot putts or letting people drop balls near OB fences.

In the race of life, always back self-interest. At least you know it's trying.

 

 

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Originally Posted by Sandwedge74

" But face it, there are advantages to be had from more expensive equipment." exactly ... which is why I think the ruling is idiotic - to each his own.


Changing this rule isn't going to make any difference. You can choose from 5 GPS receivers at GolfSmith right now that are less than $70 more expensive than your app. That's hardly a challenging expense for someone who's golfing with any regularity. Particularly for someone who's chosen a smart phone.

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I use a SkyCaddie and it shades the green's slopes. That means I can get distances to the front, top and back shelves. This new ruling has made my SkyCaddie illegal.

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Originally Posted by zeg

Particularly for someone who's chosen a smart phone.

Dead on.
That's the elephant in the room in this thread, isn't it?

People with expensive phones whining about the cost of a GPS or laser rangefinder.

In the race of life, always back self-interest. At least you know it's trying.

 

 

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Originally Posted by Sandwedge74

I just wanted to add what really annoys me about this rule is the fact that as one of the "99%" who doesn't make a ton of $$$,  this ruling is another example of why my favorite game is annoying.

So now I have to go buy a $200-$400 fancy GPS gadget or rangefinder instead of using the $29 golf logix one attached to my phone.

No you don't. Just as you don't need a $500 rain suit, a $600 driver, a $1200 set of irons, custom wedges, etc. I don't see "You must own a $200-$400 fancy GPS gadget or rangefinder" anywhere in the Rules of Golf.

You own a smart phone and you play golf . Let's put it this way: you ain't exactly poor.

Originally Posted by Sandwedge74

Did the the USGA or R&A; ever consider that it might not be fair for a person the other side??

Why should they? If golf had to legislate on who could afford what we'd all be playing with whatever wooden sticks and rocks we could find lying about near the first tee. Oh, and there wouldn't be golf courses, because poor people can't pay to play on them, and that's not "fair" either.

If you have money you can buy better stuff from time to time. That's kind of the way the world works.

And as zen says, a GPS costs less than a wedge.

Originally Posted by zeg

Personally, outside of competition, I wouldn't sweat the smart phone rules a bit---if I wanted to use it as a GPS, I would trust myself not to use it for anything else. I think it'd be ridiculous not to report such a round for handicap unless there's an unambiguous statement from the handicap committee that they don't want you reporting such scores. Not posting a score because of a technical violation that does not affect the score is not reasonable.

But, in competition, I can understand the rules being what they are. The line has to be drawn somewhere. Someone will complain about something either way. For a tournament, I'd keep it as conservative as is practical to avoid questions.

Exactly.

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I don't know why everyone is so offended by this rule regarding GPS on the phone.  It's easy to understand the USGA's motivation behind the decision and as previously mentioned, GOOD players can take advantage of fully understanding the weather.  This is a black and white issue and the USGA decided to take the hard stance.

I currently have GolfLogix on my BlackBerry and now that this rule has come into effect, I just won't register again this year and will delete the app.  Boo hoo, big deal.  I purchased a Range Finder and will use that as well as pace out my distances (plus, in the case where i may be in a cart, alot of courses these days come equipped with GPS on the cart).

As for if I have to make a call or answer the phone in case of an emergency, is someone really going to run over to me and point in my face that I can't post my score because I took an important business or personal call?

If I'm playing in a tournament, I'll make sure to take care of all that I possibly can prior to the start of the tournament and when it does, place the phone out of sight in my bag and use my range finder.

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good thread. as to the idea regarding "distance is common knowledge," why isn't weather common knowledge? Just because that's how it has always been. I think "tradition" is given too much weight in golf. If tradition held, I'd only be allowed to caddy.

2nd point, for those who think skycaddie et al don't have a hand in this, I have a bridge in Phoenix to sell you. These guys are huge benefactors for the business of golf and they have their lobbiest like every other industry.

Finally, those saying a standalone is too much? come on, you play GOLF. You knew the deal when you started.

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Originally Posted by jgreen85

good thread. as to the idea regarding "distance is common knowledge," why isn't weather common knowledge? Just because that's how it has always been.

Weather is common knowledge, but measurements of the weather are not.

Originally Posted by jgreen85

2nd point, for those who think skycaddie et al don't have a hand in this, I have a bridge in Phoenix to sell you. These guys are huge benefactors for the business of golf and they have their lobbiest like every other industry.

Prove it. I bet SkyCaddie doesn't have as much money as you seem to think.

Originally Posted by jgreen85

Finally, those saying a standalone is too much? come on, you play GOLF. You knew the deal when you started.

I agree with that (and have said the same thing). :)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Originally Posted by iacas

Prove it. I bet SkyCaddie doesn't have as much money as you seem to think.

I said skycaddie et al. The et al includes the other golf gps and laser companies as well as the golf shops that collect a 20% markup on the products. Secondly, I think overestimate the amount it would take to influence leaders of the usga (or whoever makes these decisions). We're not lobbying members of congress here. We're talking about a sports governing body. It doesn't take Verizon/AT&T; money to bribe these guys.

Finally, "Prove it." Sure, I'll quit my job to track down the skycaddie lobbyists to prove to you that they're greasing the wheels of the USGA. I'm not arguing that this rule doesn't have merits. Any issue that angers people regarding politics have merits (eg a national mandate for healthcare makes sense on many levels, but it pisses a bunch of people off for other reasons). I'm just saying SkyCaddie et al made this decision a easier for the USGA.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

Dead on.

That's the elephant in the room in this thread, isn't it?

People with expensive phones whining about the cost of a GPS or laser rangefinder.


Not at all. This is about having one device for doing all the things you need on the course, such as scoring, statistics and GPS. Problem is that the device contains illegal features...

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Originally Posted by iacas

Surely you realize that the "dumbness of a rule as mdl sees it" probably isn't high on the list of consideration for rules makers, right? :)


Come on now.  That's clearly not the standard I'm proposing (though I wouldn't mind if the rules committee just decided they'd do whatever I told them in any tricky case!).  I'm just saying that it seems obvious to me that they've made a poor and illogical decision and I find the arguments in favor of it extremely weak.  Yes, policing is harder with a phone than with other mostly self-enforced rules, but most of the rules of golf are mostly self-enforced at all levels.  This seems an illogical and blinkered place to draw a line in the sand.

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I made the price argument earlier, and I still stand by it, as I'm a grad student and literally every single dollar I can spare goes to golf, and there's nowhere I'm pulling $99-$199 from to get a dedicated device.  In fact, I haven't even forked over for a good GPS app cause I mostly play the same munis I know really well.  And I only have a smart phone in the first place cause I got one for free from Best Buy last Christmas.  Out of all of my golf equipment, one club, a $75 ebay driver purchase, and none of the rest (bag, shoes, etc), wasn't a gift or bought with a gift card.

My point is, while yes, we all know golf is an expensive habit, that's not an excuse to make a rule that those who can afford yet another $100-$200 can gain an advantage just because the rules committee chose this as the one rule where they don't trust golfers to enforce the rules on themselves.

Plus, as Ignorant says, there's the fact that if you assume honor among golfers, then this rule does nothing except force golfers to waste time tracking scoring, stats, and GPS on different devices/papers and then dealing with all that data separately later.

Matt

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OK, I have a smart phone, but its not an iPhone. The home page does contain weather information, but only the current temperature and if its cloudy or clear (something I can obviously figure out myself by looking up at the sky, no advantage to me there). I do have a compass I installed. Have I ever needed it for golf? No. Why would I. Im not going to get lost playing golf. Do I have access to detailed weather information?? Sure. But hey, Im outside, I know what the weather is doing. Unless your golf club has its own weather station and is broadcasting the information, weather apps are useless anyway which is why most people would not even bother getting that information from the web or an app.

Why would they even bother bringing this smart phone ruling up?? We already know that compasses and weather information apps are banned for use. Nothing has changed there. They cant say that phones will be banned because you "may" be using it for other data that is banned. Ban them totally, or leave the rule alone and let the golfers use the honor system that has been in place since day dot. If they are going to worry about people possibly using their phones for illegal reasons, then they better start checking how many clubs are in every players bag before comp rounds. There is a rule that is never spoken about, but is based purely on trust. Let the smart phone rule do the same.

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But measurements of distance (i.e. a range finder/gps) is considered common knowledge? I know the argument is that a range finder gives the same info as the yardage book, but that really isn't true for most people out there playing (ignore tour level caddies) as the margin of error is a lot less.

Originally Posted by iacas

Weather is common knowledge, but measurements of the weather are not.



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Related information.

I remembered this.

Ridiculous AND a violation of Rule 14-3 Artificial Devices.  Annika Sorenstam brought a thermometer and wind gauge to a pro-am in Dallas many years ago that resulted in her being penalized or DQ’d for carrying (not even using) these devices.  Unless you have a handicap (i.e. physical impairment) that requires that you know the temperature precisely just to compete - your corneas might freeze - leave your thermometer at home.

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Originally Posted by mymizunosrock

I do have a compass I installed. Have I ever needed it for golf? No. Why would I. Im not going to get lost playing golf.

As I already wrote before, I have had some use of the compass when determining the direction of the wind, especially on a course I am not so familiar with.


Originally Posted by mymizunosrock

Do I have access to detailed weather information?? Sure. But hey, Im outside, I know what the weather is doing. Unless your golf club has its own weather station and is broadcasting the information, weather apps are useless anyway which is why most people would not even bother getting that information from the web or an app.

This I don't understand at all. Where I live there are weather stations 20-50 km's apart and the temp, wind direction and speed, etc. are measured every 5 minutes. This info is then displayed on the web both graphically and numerically. I have consulted this web page propably thousands of times and I have never yet seen that the wind direction would be that different between the stations within 100 km's from my own location. Usually the direction is the same, sometimes there is a difference of 20-30 degrees which with my golfing skills is negligible.

So, in essence this information is very valuable as the wind direction above tree tops is very constant around here (no mountains or very high hills nearby). Thus I have consulted this particular web page a multitude of times both before a round and during (not in competitions, naturally) and noted any change in the wind direction as well as speed. At least for me this has been very helpful.

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