Hank Haney's Book "The Big Miss" about his time teaching Tiger

[newtogolf]

Hank does have his trophy wife to take care of, I'd guess she influenced his decision on it as well.  Seems he has a pretty nice life style that can't be cheap to maintain.  The more that comes out on the book the lower my opinion of Haney goes.

Originally Posted by turtleback

Yeah he treated Haney badly.  Just made him a fortune.  Would Haney have a TV show?  Would he have golf schools?

Rick Smith's quote says it all.  Haney is essentially scum.  Unethical scum at that.

[iacas]

A few more excerpts.

1. Apparently, Elin gave him a "two years away from golf or else" ultimatum.
2. Haney also tells of a woman who approached him during an outing in Minnesota last year. Her husband was a Navy SEAL in California and told her Woods came in for training in 2007 at a Kill House – an urban-warfare simulator – and “got kicked pretty hard in the leg, and I think he hurt his knee pretty bad.”
   Haney said that matched a story from Carroll, who said Woods revealed to him that the complete tear of his left knee ligaments really happened in a Kill House when he had lost his balance and been kicked in the knee.
   “My immediate thought upon hearing Corey’s account, which so closely paralleled that of the woman in Minneapolis, was that it was true,” Haney writes. “And if so, it meant that if Tiger never catches Jack Nicklaus, it will very likely have as much to do with the time and physical capacity he lost as a result of his bizarre Navy SEALs adventure as anything else.”
3. But a player of which he was not particularly fond was Ian Poulter, who after a practice round at Oakmont a few weeks before the U.S. Open there in 2007 "was cheeky enough to ask Tiger, 'How are we getting home?' " Both lived in the Orlando area and Poulter knew that Woods had a private jet standing by. Though Woods never extended an invitation, Poulter showed up at the jetport anyway. "Can you believe how this d--- mooched a ride on my plane?" Woods wrote in a text to Haney as the three of them were flying back to Orlando.
4. "Knowing that Zach is a devout Christian, Tiger, when he got to the suite first, immediately purchased the adult movie 24-hour package and turned the television on," Haney writes. "When Zach walked in, he saw the sights and sounds, but presuming that it was what Tiger wanted to watch, he didn't change the channel or turn it off. Tiger never commented on the movies, nor did Zach. 'It was funny watching him acting like everything was normal,' Tiger told me. 'I got him pretty good.' "

[k-troop]

I have to say, I'm a little surprised to hear Rick Smith say what he did.  I'm all in favor of codes of professional ethics; in fact, I'm bound by two such codes.  I'm just surprised to hear that such a code applies to golf instructors.  It's not a profession where I would think confidentiality is a major concern.

I have to admit, this changes the way I think about Haney, and the book.

The additional excerpts quoted by Iacas are also odd.  Do you really need to publish direct quotes from text messages where Tiger called Poulter a d-bag?  Even if it happened, how is it helping tell the story of Tiger and his game?  The Zach Johnson story seems a little extreme too, like a really distasteful prank.  It seems from the quote that Hank actually witnessed this, but still--what's the relevance?

Is he trying to paint some picture that Tiger was just a weird guy, and that somehow explains some of the inexplicable decisions that affected his golf career?  "Tiger is a weird guy" seems to me like a pretty plausible conclusion given the bubble he grew up in, but why is Hank telling this story?

I think a lot of folks were speculating before that the answer was "to be spiteful," but as more excerpts come out, that looks more and more like the answer.  I wonder if Tiger did get a full copy of the book, and that's why he's been so strong in his reaction to it.  Maybe it's just going to get worse?

[iacas]

FWIW, on the Zach Johnson bit, I've heard Zach thought the prank was hilarious.

So much for Hank's bullcrap about how this is "about golf" and all that.

[RonTheSavage]

This is a money grab, and Haney is Scum! When the book was first announced Hank said he witnessed greatness and had a story to tell or something like that. But how does text messages and rumor equate to greatness???

[Mr. Desmond]

I think judging a book by its excerpts is premature.

Yes, it goes beyond the golf and offers insight into Tiger. But some of these outside of the ropes stories affected Tiger's golf game.

I heard Haney on the radio today - he said, and I paraphrase, excerpts are excerpts, but those who have read the entire book tell me it is a very good read and is not written in a way where I try to make light of Tiger.

I think Hank, like many of us, will justify or rationalize the purpose of the book for his own ends. It takes a different individual to say,"I witnessed greatness, there's a lot of mystery behind the golfer, and I wanted to show insight, and maybe despite everything that happened, despite this guy's faults as a human being, despite his controlling, immature, personality, and relatively sheltered life and lack of common sense or humanity - he overcame all of it on the golf course. Hey, some people will think all of this is confidential, and that's their opinion. I thought it presents Tiger as a human being, something that has been lacking."

I doubt if it shows what I'd like to read about Tiger - I'll pick it up on the shelves and sit down with it - but I doubt if it goes into the depth that I enjoy. But despite everyone saying Hank is a dip for writing this, I'm glad he did. It makes Tiger a flawed human ... and very real. And someone, I doubt that I'd enjoy as an individual, at least in his present form. I remember Tiger's press conference from two years ago - he hasn't really done much on that tickler list that he mentioned. As to the Elin two years away from golf, he should have taken her up on it. He hasn't had a win in two years. He could have worked on his game and marriage without tournaments. He could also have negotiated it to one year but I guess the marriage was not that important to him...

[newtogolf]

Other than family and the media who's gotten a chance to read it?  I'm sure for the tabloid-like media that exists today it is a great read.  They can't get enough Tiger stories, especially if they showcase him in a negative light.  Did you really need Haney to write a book to figure out Tiger was a flawed human being after the Thanksgiving day incident and all that followed?  Sounds like you and Haney are trying to sugarcoat and make excuses for what the book is.

I'd respect Haney more if he came out and said that Tiger was a nightmare to work with, didn't pay Haney well enough, doesn't feel any obligation towards Tiger and decided to cash in on writing a book that describes their time together.   He should at least own what he did and be a man.

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

I think judging a book by its excerpts is premature.

Yes, it goes beyond the golf and offers insight into Tiger. But some of these outside of the ropes stories affected Tiger's golf game.

I heard Haney on the radio today - he said, and I paraphrase, excerpts are excerpts, but those who have read the entire book tell me it is a very good read and is not written in a way where I try to make light of Tiger.

I think Hank, like many of us, will justify or rationalize the purpose of the book for his own ends. It takes a different individual to say, I witnessed greatness, there's a lot of mystery behind the golfer, and I wanted to show insight, and maybe despite everything that happened, despite this guy's faults as a human being, despite his controlling, immature, personality, and relatively sheltered life and lack of common sense or humanity - he overcame all of it on the golf course.

I doubt if it shows what I'd like to read about Tiger - I'll pick it up on the shelves and sit down with it - but I doubt if it goes into the depth that I enjoy. But despite everyone saying Hank is a dip for writing this, I'm glad he did. It makes Tiger a flawed human ... and very real. And someone, I doubt that I'd enjoy as an individual, at least in his present form.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by k-troop

I guess that it refers to a hook.  Tiger was apparently not very confident with his driver, always afraid of hitting a big hook.  Sounds like many of the things Hank helped him with were designed to eliminate the hook.

Geez. If that's all it was, Woods could have picked up a copy of Five Lessons and saved himself a lot of trouble.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Other than family and the media who's gotten a chance to read it?  I'm sure for the tabloid-like media that exists today it is a great read.  They can't get enough Tiger stories, especially if they showcase him in a negative light.  Did you really need Haney to write a book to figure out Tiger was a flawed human being after the Thanksgiving day incident and all that followed?  Sounds like you and Haney are trying to sugarcoat and make excuses for what the book is.

I'd respect Haney more if he came out and said that Tiger was a nightmare to work with, didn't pay Haney well enough, doesn't feel any obligation towards Tiger and decided to cash in on writing a book that describes their time together.   He should at least own what he did and be a man.

1. lol - newtogolf, I was paraphrasing Haney, not making excuses for him. In fact, I said, oh never mind ...

2. There is a difference between "I'm glad he wrote it" and agreeing with whether he should have wrote it.

3. Hmm, in your second paragraph, you're parroting my thoughts as to Haney looking at himself in the mirror.

4. You seem to be jumping to an assumption based on an excerpt - that Tiger is portrayed in a negative throughout the book.

5. You, like too many people, are JUMPING to conclusions based on excerpts. The book may be crap, it may have some gold ... who knows?

Think, man.

Oh, that's right... people don't want to think these days... they want instant answers and conclusions drawn from  quick reads based on a couple of paragraphs of a book.

Laughable... slow down and wait ... and read. Then make up your mind, like a rational and reasonable individual .... not a bunch of gossips.

[RichF]

The biggest problem for Woods-Followers with this book is it's accuracy.
Where is Woods to challenge even one single thing in the book?
Where are the legion to blow holes in it? Well they can't.
And as usual the only avenue left for the fanboy is to target The Messenger because the message is true. Writing this book as open and honest as this was a brave decision by Haney considering the religious-nuts that makes up a strong majority of Woods fandom.

Hank is giving a look into 'the man'.
Difference here is that, being most of the other books didn't have a full-on coach dealing with a self-absorbed narcissist. If the book was about how he got Eldrick to keep the upper left arm close to his body rather than separated and roll through on release rather than extend... and how this helped Woods to go on to win more majors in such a short time than any one coach-player in history (as MANY of the fan-club state) , the book wouldn't be worth releasing.
But there was way moreto the story...HH is shedding light on the the 'person' that is Tiger Woods... and good for him, because you average journo-hack sure won't as they are scared they might not get an interview.
The me that comes out of this book, the better it becomes...hope we haven't even heard the best stuff yet.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by RichF

And as usual the only avenue left for the fanboy is to target The Messenger because the message is true. Writing this book as open and honest as this was a brave decision by Haney considering the religious-nuts that makes up a strong majority of Woods fandom.

But there was way moreto the story...HH is shedding light on the the 'person' that is Tiger Woods... and good for him, because you average journo-hack sure won't as they are scared they might not get an interview.

I don't think the only issue people have is that it's true and it denigrates their idealistic opinion of Tiger.  I doubt anyone really has an idealistic opinion of Tiger.  It's just that there are some who think that his golf swing should be the only relevant issue.

I, for one, don't think that's the only relevant issue, because the detours in his weird personal life affected his game.

But this book is seeming to go way beyond that, into tabloid gossip and mudslinging territory.  That's not a territory that golf writing usually goes into.  I think the game of Golf, and those who hold it dear, think that Golf is above this kind of nonsense.

The other point about journalists not wanting to write anything negative about Tiger may be somewhat true.  Tiger is a big story, and if you say anything bad about him you're pretty much guaranteeing that he'll never talk to you again.  However, there are certainly plenty of folks willing to write dirt on Tiger--just no one who has had this kind of access.  And that is, of course, the other issue:  the access to Tiger carried with it some level of trust, which has been obliterated by this book.

I'm in favor of a story which reveals the aspects of his personal life that derailed his game, as told by the guy who was there to see it all fall apart (and somewhat responsible for keeping it together).  But the "Ian Poulter is a mooching d-bag" text message is just gratuitous mudslinging.  If there's a lot of that in the book, then I think it should reflect very poorly on HH.

[newtogolf]

Excerpts are typically released with the permission of the publisher as anyone that received an advanced copy of the book was likely under a non-disclosure without approval from the publishers.  The publishing company may be the ones choosing the excerpts as well.  Usually excerpts represent the content or theme of the book, but you go ahead and read the whole thing if you like in search of some golf.   The rest of your post really wasn't worth responding to, so I didn't.

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

5. You, like too many people, are JUMPING to conclusions based on excerpts. The book may be crap, it may have some gold ... who knows?

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Excerpts are typically released with the permission of the publisher as anyone that received an advanced copy of the book was likely under a non-disclosure without approval from the publishers.  The publishing company may be the ones choosing the excerpts as well.  Usually excerpts represent the content or theme of the book, but you go ahead and read the whole thing if you like in search of some golf.   The rest of your post really wasn't worth responding to, so I didn't.

Another assumption.

Another non responsive post.

As posted previously, Haney is a shill and probably has an agenda other than his stated purpose. But he did have a first hand seat to Tiger.  This is not a tabloid feature where you have a "reporter" getting the story from unnamed sources. It's first hand, written by the witness information. You have his instructor telling you what he saw, admittedly, through his eyes, which may be biased. It may give you insight into Tiger, if you want it. Now this is key -- you've got to be able to sift through what is real and what is Haney's bias. You better stay away from it. Because it appears you can't handle it.

You must be clingy, because you can't see anything other than your own biased side.

Wake up ... or not.

[newtogolf]

Unlike you who has a history of being very open minded...not.  Last post in response to you, I don't waste time with internet tough guys that resort to personal attacks rather than debate a topic.  Enjoy the book.

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Another assumption.

Another non responsive post.

As posted previously, Haney is a shill and probably has an agenda other than his stated purpose. But he did have a first hand seat to Tiger.  This is not a tabloid feature where you have a "reporter" getting the story from unnamed sources. It's first hand, written by the witness information. You have his instructor telling you what he saw, admittedly, through his eyes, which may be biased. It may give you insight into Tiger, if you want it. Now this is key -- you've got to be able to sift through what is real and what is Haney's bias. You better stay away from it. Because it appears you can't handle it.

You must be clingy, because you can't see anything other than your own biased side.

Wake up ... or not.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Unlike you who has a history of being very open minded...not.  Last post in response to you, I don't waste time with internet tough guys that resort to personal attacks rather than debate a topic.  Enjoy the book.

The guilty dog barks first, my friend, Mr. internet tough guy. You just don't seem to read or comprehend well beyond your small POV. So you get defensive and begin calling names.

I was only giving you counsel -- to wake up and be aware. Take it or leave it. You want to leave it. Great decision for you - not so much for others around you.

You know a thread has run its course when the inmates start eating each other.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Would anybody have a problem if Haney had written a book saying only how wonderful Woods had been to work with and talking only about the enjoyable parts of his association with him? Because I am sure there were many times when that would have been true, and Haney could have written about only those times and quoted only the good things Woods had said about other people. That would have been a dishonest book, though. A memoir should be a representative look at the complete picture or it's not worth writing. That's one issue, not whether Haney shouldn't have written this or that, but should he have written it at all. Another issue is whether we need to learn that our heroes aren't one-dimensional, and that some of those other dimensions are not admirable.

[topspin4hand]

I think the negative references, disclosure of moments clearly meant to be private, and flat out betrayal of someone who made you millions all go hand in hand as to the unethical basis of this book.  There are plenty of times when sports figures say nice things to each other behind the scenes and when asked about the moment they say, "that's between he and I."  In large part, Hank did the exact opposite.

I agree with Hank that some of his anecdotes are "his memories too" however, let's not play dumb.  Hank knows that recounting moments behind closed doors with Tiger, his wife, etc. was over the line for a former coach. I will be interested when the full book comes out to see what Hank was talking about when he said the book was flattering to Tiger ... cause little of the *leaked* portions are!

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

Would anybody have a problem if Haney had written a book saying only how wonderful Woods had been to work with and talking only about the enjoyable parts of his association with him? Because I am sure there were many times when that would have been true, and Haney could have written about only those times and quoted only the good things Woods had said about other people. That would have been a dishonest book, though. A memoir should be a representative look at the complete picture or it's not worth writing. That's one issue, not whether Haney shouldn't have written this or that, but should he have written it at all. Another issue is whether we need to learn that our heroes aren't one-dimensional, and that some of those other dimensions are not admirable.

[k-troop]

Best way for Tiger to take the wind out of Haney's sails would be to win this week at Bay Hill, or even better, to win at Augusta.  Let's see how he does with his first 36-hole lead in a while.