Tiger Wants to Ban the Long Putter

[bilinguru]

Well, I just spent an hour reading this thread and have a few observations.

Firstly, and this is true generally of internet forums, there is no shortage of opinions that are based in ignorance.

I don't want to call out specific contributors, as I think that is mean spirited, but I do wish people would take the time to inform themselves before shooting of their ideas.  It would save everyone else a lot of time and save themselves some embarassment.

That being said, I wonder how many people posting on this thread have actually read the rules of golf.  My guess is almost none of you.  So, for your edification please read the following excerpts from the USGA website...

Appendix II, 1a provides that:

A club is an implement designed to be used for striking the ball and generally comes in three forms: woods, irons and putters distinguished by shape and intended use. A putter is a club with a loft not exceeding ten degrees designed primarily for use on the putting green.

In defining what is meant by the term “club,” this Rule makes reference to the three main forms a club traditionally takes, i.e., woods, irons and putters. The words “wood” and “iron” do not necessarily refer to the material the club is made out of, but rather to the general shape of the clubhead. A “wood” club is one where the head is relatively broad from face to back, and it can be made of materials such as titanium, steel or wood. An “iron” club is one where the head is relatively narrow from face to back, and it is usually made of steel.

By definition, the loft of a putter must not exceed 10 degrees, and a club with a loft greater than that is normally regarded as an iron club. Putters are permitted to have negative loft. However, a loft of less than -15 degrees would not be considered “traditional and customary in form and make” (See Design of Clubs, Section 1a(i)).

The Rules and guidelines sometimes distinguish between “wood” and “iron” clubs (see Design of Clubs, Section 5c for an example of where they do). As hybrid, rescue and utility clubs have increased in popularity and design variety, it is sometimes challenging to define whether a particular club should be classified as a wood or an iron. In such cases, the general shape of the clubhead should be referenced in order to determine which classification should apply for the purpose of applying the rules. Additionally, there are various instances throughout the Rules where different specifications apply to putters. These differences in the Rules will be highlighted appropriately throughout this Guide.

As a consequence of these differences, confusion often exists as to which rules apply to “chippers,” i.e., iron clubs which are specifically designed to be used just off the putting green with a putting stroke. For clarification on “The Status of a Chipper,” see Decision 4-1/3 in “Decisions on the Rules of Golf” and Design of Clubs, Section 1c.

Appendix II, 1a goes on to state that:

The club must not be substantially different from the traditionally and customary form and make. The club must be composed of a shaft and a head and it may also have material added to the shaft to enable the player to obtain a firm hold (see 3 below). All parts must be fixed so that the club is one unit, and it must have no external attachments. Exceptions may be made for attachments that do not affect the performance of the club.

In explaining this part of the Rule, it is easier to divide it into the following four sections:

(i) Traditional and Customary Form and Make

The phrase “traditional and customary form and make” does not mean that clubs must look the same as they did 100 years ago. If so, steel shafts and metal woodheads would not conform to the Rules. As noted in the introduction to this Guide, it is not the purpose of the Rules to stifle innovation.

In practice, the “Traditional and Customary Rule” is rarely used — having been largely superseded by the “Plain in Shape” Rule (see Design of Clubs, Section 4a). However, it is still applied in those cases where the Equipment Standards Committee decides that a particular design deviates from traditional appearance and/or construction standards, but which may not be covered by a more specific provision within the Rules.

c. Length

Appendix II, 1c provides that:

The overall length of the club must be at least 18 inches (0.457 m) and, except for putters, must not exceed 48 inches (1.219 m).

This Rule is straightforward, and the measurement of woods and irons is well described and illustrated in “The Rules of Golf.” The measurement of length for putters can be illustrated as follows:

Note that the Equipment Standards Committee has adopted a position that clubs designed for chipping, including modified wedges, must be no longer than standard-length clubs of similar loft.

d. Alignment

Appendix II, 1d provides that:

When the club is in its normal address position the shaft must be so aligned that: (i) the projection of the straight part of the shaft on to the vertical plane through the toe and heel must diverge from the vertical by at least 10 degrees. If the overall design of the club is such that the player can effectively use the club in a vertical or close-to-vertical position, the shaft may be required to diverge from the vertical in this plane by as much as 25 degrees; (ii) the projection of the straight part of the shaft on to the vertical plane along the intended line of play must not diverge from the vertical by more than 20 degrees forward or 10 degrees backward.

This Rule is particularly relevant to putters, and it exists mainly as a means for disallowing croquet or vertical-pendulum style putters (with vertical shafts) and shuffle-board style strokes, as well as designs which facilitate such strokes (see Figure 4).

For most putters, the “normal address position” is determined by the geometry of the head. The head would be placed on a horizontal flat surface, with the sole touching that surface at a point directly below the center of the face. The shaft angle is measured with the head in this position (see Figure 5).

If the putter head shape or weight distribution is very asymmetric, it may be necessary to make a subjective judgment as to where the effective center of the face is, and then to sole the club directly below that point. The position of the head in this instance may not always be the position that was intended by design. Nonetheless, in some cases, a judgment must be made based on how the club could feasibly and effectively be used (see Figure 6).

The same subjectivity may also be needed when confronted with a putter which has a very curved sole (see Figure 7). As before, the Equipment Standards Committee takes into account not only the manner in which the putter is designed to be used, but also the way it could feasibly and effectively be used, given the geometry of the head as well as other unique characteristics of the overall design. This interpretation is particularly relevant to long-shafted putters with very curved or multi-planed soles — however, standard-length putters of approximately 34 to 38 inches may also be subjected to this assessment.

It should be noted that all putters can usually be positioned in such a way that the shaft diverges from the vertical by less than 10 degrees or even to a position where the shaft itself is vertical. Also, it is unusual for the sole of a putter to be completely flat all the way from heel to toe. When faced with a ruling of this kind, the decision should not be based on whether a player uses the putter with the shaft in a position of less than 10 degrees — but whether the putter design facilitates a player placing the shaft in a position of less than 10 degrees.

If the overall design of a putter is such that the player can achieve a “vertical-pendulum” style stroke (i.e., putt effectively with the shaft in a vertical or near-vertical position), it would be ruled contrary to Appendix II, 1d, even if the shaft angle does satisfy the 10-degree Rule when the putter is in its “normal address position.” The shaft angle on such a putter could be required to be increased to as much as 25 degrees. In assessing whether a putter can be used effectively in a “vertical-pendulum” style manner, the combination of the following features should be considered:

• length of shaft
• position of shaft attachment to head
• angle of shaft in toe-to-heel plane and front-to-back plane
• shape and weight distribution of head
• curvature and shape of sole
• intent of the design

Even though each of these putter features, when considered separately, could conform to the Rules, the combination of the features might lead to a decision that the putter does not conform.

This is an extremely good example of an area where rules officials should take care not to make a decision unless they are 100% certain they are correct. If, after examining the club and carrying out all of the appropriate consultations, it is still not possible to give a definitive ruling, a Duration of Competition or Duration of Round Answer should be given (see Field Procedures — Guidance to Rules Officials Concerning Questions on the Conformity of Clubs at Competitions).

The determination of a feasible “normal address position” or whether a putter can be used with the shaft in a vertical or close-to-vertical position can be highly subjective and, in terms of those putters actually submitted to the USGA, the job of making rulings is easier because it is possible to compare them with previous submissions and decisions.

[bilinguru]

Now there is nothing in there about anchoring or what constitutes a proper swing other than it must be a forward motion.

I believe sports are best when they are less regulated, not more.

The most popular sport in the world is football (soccer) and a big part of its popularity is its simplicity.

If somebody wants to anchor the the butt of the shaft to their belly, chest or chin to provide them with stability when putting, they should be allowed to do so as long as the club is not more than 48 inches long as in the rules.  A couple of guys have had success with this method and suddenly everyone is up in arms.  I don't believe that these putters give players an unfair advantage.  We are all allowed to use this method, but many don't like it or think it looks goofy or some other arbitrary reason for disliking it, but that does not make the advantage that players like Keegan Bradley, Webb Simpson and others feel an unfair one.

[newtogolf]

The official FIFA rules have 17 sections and the rule book is about 70 pages long. There are also an additional 44 pages titled "Questions and Answers".  I wouldn't think it takes 17 sections and 70 pages if it's as simple as you claim.

Originally Posted by bilinguru

Now there is nothing in there about anchoring or what constitutes a proper swing other than it must be a forward motion.

I believe sports are best when they are less regulated, not more.

The most popular sport in the world is football (soccer) and a big part of its popularity is its simplicity.

If somebody wants to anchor the the butt of the shaft to their belly, chest or chin to provide them with stability when putting, they should be allowed to do so as long as the club is not more than 48 inches long as in the rules.  A couple of guys have had success with this method and suddenly everyone is up in arms.  I don't believe that these putters give players an unfair advantage.  We are all allowed to use this method, but many don't like it or think it looks goofy or some other arbitrary reason for disliking it, but that does not make the advantage that players like Keegan Bradley, Webb Simpson and others feel an unfair one.

[jhwmusic]

I think Lucius was referring to the fact that Keegan is probably the poster child for long putters right now, since he won a major with one.

Man, I am just off today. I can't pick up on any sarcasm. What is happening to me!? :~(

[bilinguru]

Your right Newtogolf about how many stipulations and decisions are now present in modern football (and golf).  But the game's popularity grew because of the following rules...

1. A GOAL is scored whenever the ball is forced through the goal and under the bar, except it be thrown by hand.
2. HANDS may be used only to stop a ball and place it on the ground before the feet.
3. KICKS must be aimed only at the ball .
4. A player may not kick the ball whilst in the air.
5. NO TRIPPING UP or HEEL KICKING is allowed.
6. Whenever the ball is kicked beyond the side flags, it must be returned by the player who kicked it, from the spot it passed the flag line, in a straight line towards the middle of the ground.
7. When a ball is kicked BEHIND the line of goal, it shall be kicked off from that line by one of the side whose goal it is.
8. No opposite player may stand within six paces of the kicker when he is kicking off.
9. A player is 'out of play' immediately he is in front of the ball and he must return behind the ball as soon as possible. If the ball be kicked by his own side past a player, he may not touch or kick it nor advance until one of the other side has first kicked it or one of his own side, having followed it up, has been able, when in front of him, to kick it.
10. NO CHARGING is allowed when a player is out of play - i.e. immediately the ball is behind him.

As with all organizations in the modern age, governing bodies feel the need to respond to a variety of concerns from interested parties by regulating the crap out of them.  Sometimes these changes or additions are warranted, i.e. for safety, but by and large they tend to over-complicate the essence of what made the thing worthwhile in the first place.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bilinguru

Your right Newtogolf about how many stipulations and decisions are now present in modern football (and golf).  But the game's popularity grew because of the following rules...

Golf similarly began with a simple set of 12 rules or so. Games evolve. Equipment evolves.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by bilinguru

We are all allowed to use this method, but many don't like it or think it looks goofy or some other arbitrary reason for disliking it

Perhaps you haven't read the entire thread?

Brandon

[sean_miller]

I don't know that much about soccer (football). Can you clarify?

Originally Posted by bilinguru

Your right Newtogolf about how many stipulations and decisions are now present in modern football (and golf).  But the game's popularity grew because of the following rules...

A GOAL is scored whenever the ball is forced through the goal and under the bar, except it be thrown by hand.

HANDS may be used only to stop a ball and place it on the ground before the feet. (Does this mean goaltenders couldn't throw the ball?)

KICKS must be aimed only at the ball.

A player may not kick the ball whilst in the air. ("Whilst" what is in the air: the ball or the player? Either way, I see this infraction all the time.)

NO TRIPPING UP or HEEL KICKING is allowed. (No heeling kicking the ball or other players?)

Whenever the ball is kicked beyond the side flags, it must be returned by the player who kicked it, from the spot it passed the flag line, in a straight line towards the middle of the ground.

When a ball is kicked BEHIND the line of goal, it shall be kicked off from that line by one of the side whose goal it is. (What sequence of events leads to a corner kick?)

No opposite player may stand within six paces of the kicker when he is kicking off.

A player is 'out of play' immediately he is in front of the ball and he must return behind the ball as soon as possible. If the ball be kicked by his own side past a player, he may not touch or kick it nor advance until one of the other side has first kicked it or one of his own side, having followed it up, has been able, when in front of him, to kick it. (Well that seems pretty straightforward - no diagrams necessary there!)

NO CHARGING is allowed when a player is out of play - i.e. immediately the ball is behind him. (Define "Charging".)

As with all organizations in the modern age, governing bodies feel the need to respond to a variety of concerns from interested parties by regulating the crap out of them.  Sometimes these changes or additions are warranted, i.e. for safety, but by and large they tend to over-complicate the essence of what made the thing worthwhile in the first place.

[bplewis24]

#4 would seem to make bicycle kicks illegal.

Brandon

[ncaney]

Personally I do not like the idea of someone anchoring the club against their body, but it is too late for the USGA to ban this.

Maybe the USGA needs to rethink their rules on putter grips? If they limited the putter grip to one piece and limited the grip length it would eliminate the amount of ways someone could grip a putter. You could have a 48 in putter, but it would be difficult to hold. This would not ban belly or long putters, but it would make them impractical to use.

I have not read this whole long thread, so forgive me if someone had already discussed the long putter grips.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by ncaney

I have not read this whole long thread, so forgive me if someone had already discussed the long putter grips.

We've got a whole thread on it , actually. And generally speaking, we do encourage people to read the thread before they post.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by iacas

And generally speaking, we do encourage people to read the thread before they post.

Well if you could do something about the abysmal page-load speed, then maybe people could read the entire 18-page thread.  (I kid, I kid.)

[bilinguru]

No I read the thread Brandon.  My point is that we are ALL allowed to putt in our own style.  The fact is that we can ALL use a belly putter or use an anchor method of putting means that there is no advantage.  Either start putting that way or not.  It's your choice.  It's almost like trying to ban stack and tilt.  The fact that you think it's a crap methodology doesn't mean people aren't entitled to use it.

[ncaney]

Originally Posted by iacas

We've got a whole thread on it, actually.  And generally speaking, we do encourage people to read the thread before they post.

Thanks for pointing that out. I am new this.

My point, related to this post, is that I agree with Tiger that belly and long putters are not good for the game. I do not agree with Tiger on how the rules of golf should be changed to ban them. I think changing the grip rules would both simplify the rules of golf, and simplify equipment.

[newtogolf]

I was going to respond to this but thought it was was too far off topic.  It's actually only an infraction if there's another player close by that could be or is injured as a result of the kick.  Watch any soccer highlight film and you will see it loaded with these sorts of kicks

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I don't know that much about soccer (football). Can you clarify?

Originally Posted by bilinguru

A player may not kick the ball whilst in the air. ("Whilst" what is in the air: the ball or the player? Either way, I see this infraction all the time.)

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I was going to respond to this but thought it was was too far off topic.  It's actually only an infraction if there's another player close by that could be or is injured as a result of the kick.  Watch any soccer highlight film and you will see it loaded with these sorts of kicks

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I don't know that much about soccer (football). Can you clarify?

Originally Posted by bilinguru

A player may not kick the ball whilst in the air. ("Whilst" what is in the air: the ball or the player? Either way, I see this infraction all the time.)

I know dangerous plays are illegal. This strangely worded list of rules (there's one that actually makes no sense to me) doesn't touch on exceptions.

[newtogolf]

I agree, I think he quoted them from memory, not from a rule book.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I know dangerous plays are illegal. This strangely worded list of rules (there's one that actually makes no sense to me) doesn't touch on exceptions.

[TheGeekGolfer]

Originally Posted by bilinguru

Well, I just spent an hour reading this thread and have a few observations.

Firstly, and this is true generally of internet forums, there is no shortage of opinions that are based in ignorance.

I don't want to call out specific contributors, as I think that is mean spirited, but I do wish people would take the time to inform themselves before shooting of their ideas.  It would save everyone else a lot of time and save themselves some embarassment.

That being said, I wonder how many people posting on this thread have actually read the rules of golf.  My guess is almost none of you.  So, for your edification please read the following excerpts from the USGA website (edited - deleted USGA website)...

...and your point is?  I'm sure many people that have posted here (like myself) have read this section and many others in the USGA Rules of Golf and have come to the informed conclusion that it clearly defines everything that is needed and is fine the way it is.  Long putters / Belly putters are fine and have been an integral part of the game for a long established time.  It constitutes a legal stroke and matches every definition (imho) of how the game was 'meant to be played'.