Tiger Wants to Ban the Long Putter

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by turtleback

So if someone was using a pool cue as their putter and there was no statistical advantage you'd be OK with that?  Croquet style putting was banned and I bet there was no study showing any statistical advantage to it.

Two banned "putting" styles? I don't get it.

[The Recreational Golfer]

There was no study about croquet putting. The story goes that Bobby Jones saw Sam Snead doing that at Augusta one year, and snorted, "That's not golf," and the USGA whipped out a rule change shortly thereafter.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by turtleback

The bad back argument that some have made is really a bit of a red herring, if you only ban anchoring.  Someone with a bad back could still use a long putter and be able to stand upright without anchoring it.  Ray Floyd put a driver shaft on his putter and did it for years.

The bad back argument is exactly to the point here. The subject of the thread is Wood's idea that a putter cannot be longer than a player's shortest other club in the bag. When I use my 48" putter, I don't anchor it. But Woods would prefer that I couldn't even do that.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

The bad back argument is exactly to the point here. The subject of the thread is Wood's idea that a putter cannot be longer than a player's shortest other club in the bag. When I use my 48" putter, I don't anchor it. But Woods would prefer that I couldn't even do that.

As is so often the case the thread develops into more directions than the original premise.  Many, including me, have argued that the ban should apply to anchoring, not based on length.

Although I would also want  rule change that prevents you from using your 48" putter for measuring club lengths for penalty and free drop purposes.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by turtleback

As is so often the case the thread develops into more directions than the original premise.  Many, including me, have argued that the ban should apply to anchoring, not based on length.

Although I would also want  rule change that prevents you from using your 48" putter for measuring club lengths for penalty and free drop purposes.

The original premise of the thread is about restricting anchoring by limiting length. That's implicit in its title.

I would assume by your two comments that you are indifferent to the length of a club used as a putter as long as it is not anchored, but a club used to make measurements may only be so long.

[B of H]

long putters should be banned.  if you have a bad back then that is tough chit, were talking about competition here.  Do basketball players that get old and can't jump get to play on 9 foot baskets?

[Th3R00st3r]

Originally Posted by B of H

long putters should be banned.  if you have a bad back then that is tough chit, were talking about competition here.  Do basketball players that get old and can't jump get to play on 9 foot baskets?

That's a bad comparison. They aren't making the holes bigger making it easier to hole out, just the equipment used is what's in question. Would you care if an older baseketball player put orthopedic inserts in his shoes for softer joint impact while everything else remained the same?

I get that the main objection for belly putters is the anchoring and that it may have an advantage (proven?), but you still have to read the green and get the speed right. You still have to "feel" the put.

[B of H]

iMO the point being that the game has been really damaged by the USGA constantly dropping the ball on equipment.  What should have probably happened a long time ago (like the 40's) is that the pro's should have been given a stock set of clubs and a stock ball to compete with.  The idea that some players can improve their putting by anchoring the club to their body to me just makes no sense and goes against everything that makes competitive golf great.  If hacks want to cheat on saturday mornings with their buddies then that is fine but competitive golfers should compete using as level a playing field as possible.  It has nothing to do with 'proving' that it's an advantage, it's just not a golf stroke.  Putting is just like any other swing but it's shorter using a different type of club etc...

I also think that it should be illegal to use a bernhard langer type grip (where you hold your forearm along the shaft) although I don't have an issue with the claw type grip as it still only involves holding the club in your hands/ fingers.

I don't blame some for using non-traditional putters, just the USGA for being spineless and not protecting the integrity and spirit of the game.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by B of H

iMO the point being that the game has been really damaged by the USGA constantly dropping the ball on equipment.  What should have probably happened a long time ago (like the 40's) is that the pro's should have been given a stock set of clubs and a stock ball to compete with.

Uhm, good luck with that. In every other sport players get to choose personalized equipment that fits them. Corey Pavin's clubs can't be the same as Alvaro Quiros's.

[brocks]

Uhm, good luck with that. In every other sport players get to choose personalized equipment that fits them. Corey Pavin's clubs can't be the same as Alvaro Quiros's.

Unless you are talking about uniforms and the like, I think you are mistaken. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that soccer balls, basketballs, and footballs, to name a few examples, are one size fits all, at least in the pros. In golf, clubs and balls are regulated, but IMO they should be regulated more. They don't need to be the same for everyone, but they should be reined in to the point where great courses are not made obsolete.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by brocks

Unless you are talking about uniforms and the like, I think you are mistaken. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that soccer balls, basketballs, and footballs, to name a few examples, are one size fits all, at least in the pros.

Those are shared equipment. It's not personal equipment.

In every other sport, players get to choose characteristics, within guidelines (rules), of the equipment only they use, from the helmets to the sneakers to the bats or rackets or gloves or pads or jock straps or whatever.

I'm not talking about shared equipment.

This discussion isn't about club/ball regulations in general. If you want that discussion, start a new one (or, preferably, revive an old one).

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by B of H

iMO the point being that the game has been really damaged by the USGA constantly dropping the ball on equipment.  What should have probably happened a long time ago (like the 40's) is that the pro's should have been given a stock set of clubs and a stock ball to compete with.

Are we going to go back here again?  What arbitrary date would you like to set as the time when equipment was "traditional"?  1850?  1900?  1950?

And, BTW:  even in the 1920s, not every golfer was using the same equipment.  Sarazen invented the sand wedge by tinkering in his shed.  Clubs have gotten more uniform, not less, due to mass production--pros used to make their own gear.  And picking one length, lie, weight, loft, etc., is simply going to favor whatever golfer whose personal specifications match up to that length, lie, weight, loft, etc.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Are we going to go back here again?  What arbitrary date would you like to set as the time when equipment was "traditional"?  1850?  1900?  1950?

Regardless, it's off topic, and as such, this is the last post on this (the OT stuff) line of discussion.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by iacas

Regardless, it's off topic, and as such, this is the last post on this (the OT stuff) line of discussion.

Roger that--back on topic.

Had an interesting discussion with a bud about this the other day.  It seems that last year there was a spike in the long putter's prominence.  Webb Simpson was winning with one; Phil and Ernie put it in play; Keegan wins the PGA.  This phenomenon led to a lot of scrutiny on the long putter.  (I'll note that the discussion sparked in the golf world, not just on this forum, because last year it seemed like the second half of the season was completely dominated by the long putter).

Who has won with a long putter this year?  Anyone?  Webb Simpson is barely on the radar; Bradley has been exposed as a spitting, sputtering, spaz; Phil won with a short putter.  Is this conversation even relevant anymore?

[Texian]

Originally Posted by B of H

...Do basketball players that get old and can't jump get to play on 9 foot baskets?

Nope. They go to play at KU.

Don't be so testy about this putter question. You'll get over the Kentucky loss in a few years.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by B of H

long putters should be banned.  if you have a bad back then that is tough chit, were talking about competition here.  Do basketball players that get old and can't jump get to play on 9 foot baskets?

It’s about competition for maybe several thousand players worldwide who play competitive golf at a high level. That's not me. I'm one of the millions of people who play for the exercise and to have fun with friends.

Old basketball players, by the way, play pick-up games to get some exercise and have fun with their friends. They probably don't care how high they jump or how high the basket is.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

Old basketball players, by the way, play pick-up games to get some exercise and have fun with their friends. They probably don't care how high they jump or how high the basket is.

Old basketball players take up a game that uses a little white ball instead of a big orange one.

[JesseV]

As someone pointed out.  Stop putting lines on your ball to help with aiming.

Stop caddies from assisting a player in aiming putts or aiming shots on the course. No more marking the ball on the putting surface except to clean it, bring back the stymy.

Bring back woods made of wood and the hickory shaft. Bring back the guttie-percha ball

Hypocrites I says!