gas prices

[jamo]

:beer: See actually we agree, I'm all for harnessing the power from nature (wind, geothermal, tides).  Unfortunately here in the U.S. most are brainwashed to believe hybrids are the answer despite what you already stated, which is fossil fuels are used to generate electricity, there's an environmental issue with disposing of the batteries that no one seems worried about, not to mention their higher cost to purchase over very fuel efficient non-hybrids.

I think we can all agree on that one. Even plug-in hybrids and pure electric cars get power from the grid. Any benefit drawn from the fact that power plants are more efficient than car engines are negated by power loss in from the grid and the fact that coal is dirtier and emits more CO2 than gasoline. EDIT: Shouldn't have said plug-in hybrid, that's not a very descriptive term.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

See actually we agree, I'm all for harnessing the power from nature (wind, geothermal, tides).  Unfortunately here in the U.S. most are brainwashed to believe hybrids are the answer despite what you already stated, which is fossil fuels are used to generate electricity, there's an environmental issue with disposing of the batteries that no one seems worried about, not to mention their higher cost to purchase over very fuel efficient non-hybrids.

I have to admit, I was ready to get into an in-depth argument with you, but I had you a bit wrong. Being skeptical of scientists is healthy in my book, but I agree with them on the topic of global warming due to the near unanimity of the theory. Doubting that particular point made you seem like a bit of a stereotype, I'm afraid. I still don't agree 100% with you, but maturity took over and I decided against getting personal. As far as the burnt out husk thing, this rock will be one eventually. I just would rather it be in 3 billion years than 30.

What stopped me was looking at your profile and seeing you were from my own backyard. Holbrook CC is the nearest course to me, and I play there regularly. Not the best kept track, but I learned to golf there.

[Leftygolfer]

Huh, what's the stereotype of someone who is sceptical of global warming?  The consensus I see in the scientic world is you don't get funding for not finding results.  Don't see grants going out to inconclusive evidence.

[x129]

You really should do a bit of research before posting. Your repeating the same crap that people have been saying for the past 10 years about hybrids.

1) Do you really think a prius getting 50mpg burns the same amount of fossil fuel as a civiv get 30mpg? Nope. The hybrid does a lot more than just bump up the HP. It smooths out the demands on the engine allowing for more efficient operation

2)The batteries go right to the recyclers. There is a lot of valuable metal in them in decent quantities.  And so far they haven't any lifespan issues. The degrade about as expected. I would worry more about your iphone (or any other small electronic item) as far as a waste material. It is hard not to dispose of a car properly. It is easy to toss an ipod in the trash.

3 Most people would save 500-1k a year on gas (with thing like the prius, camery, or ford fusion. I know there are some really crappy hybrids out there that aren't worth talking about. No one buys them).  That covers the hybrid premium for pretty much any model assuming you keep your car 7-10 years. If you don't keep your car 7+ years, you don't care about price anyway....

Are hybrids the 20 year solution? Probably not. But if we could drop the fuel consumption of the us auto fleet by 30% it would be huge.

And for the plugin/electric car haters, even using coal an ev is still about 20% better than using oil from a co2 perspective (note if your driving a hybrid you might be better off burning gas. The point is they are about the same). Large scale plants running at constant conditions are a lot more efficient than your car that is cycling up and down. And that ignores the fact that there is a huge chunk of energy that is generated from natural gas, nuclear, hydro, and growing chunks from wind and solar.  Besides wouldn't you rather support a domestic energy source than a foreign one?

And no one is wasting time not looking into things. Research takes time and can't be rushed. See the CARB EV mandate in the 90s for an example of trying to rush technology. Batteries are 10-15 years away from giving us nice electric cars at affordable prices. Solar cells are getting cheaper every year (something like 10% a year over the past decade) also. Go back and read Popular science articles from the 70s and 80s and you can read all about things like solar cells, recovering oil for tar sands, electric cars and so on.  There are a few industries that move fast like computers. A lot of other ones just creep up on us.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Cars are the problem, not whether or not they're electric, gas, diesel, or even hydrogen. Do you know how they generate electricity. Typically they burn fossil fuels.

Hybrids are not the answer. Current hybrids use just as much fossil fuels, because the hybrid portion just bumps the horsepower. And who's gonna support those huge batteries in 10 years. Where do they go once they're spent. Everything being invented right now just seems to be made so we can continue on the same path and ekes out a little more time from the dwindling supply. Meanwhile time is wasting on finding a way to harness the one energy source that will outlast us all. Nature. Wind, geothermal, tides, and of course that glowing ball of gas 93e6 miles away.

[TourSpoon]

What about flying cars? I still want one. For those of you guys growing up in the 70s...i remember being asked to write an essay in 1975 as a grade schooler about what life would be like in the year 2000. I wrote about this great world with flying cars ala the Jetsons. Man, was I disappointed when 2000 came around. Of course I did make out not converting completely over to metric. We were told that if we didn't learn it we would be left behind. If I had listened, I would be the only American converting yards to meters on the golf course. :-D

[glock35ipsc]

Originally Posted by jamo

There's a similar problem with what's called net metering. If you install your own solar panels or thermo heating, many U.S. states will let you sell excess power back into the grid at a reduced rate. Many states, however, don't allow it, which is a shame. It's been met with heady lobbying by energy companies.

Funny you mention this.  I actually was ready to pull the trigger on solar just last month with Solar City.  But come to find out, my utility company only set aside $25,000 in this years budget for renewable energy credits.  Well, that is good for just a few people, and there is a waiting list of just over 3 dozen people, so my chances of going solar with Solar City (or a similar company) are slim to none.

[colin007]

question - who is making all the money with these gas prices going up?  is it really the oil companies like BP and Exxon?  i know its not the guys that own the gas stations.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

What about flying cars? I still want one.

For those of you guys growing up in the 70s...i remember being asked to write an essay in 1975 as a grade schooler about what life would be like in the year 2000. I wrote about this great world with flying cars ala the Jetsons. Man, was I disappointed when 2000 came around. Of course I did make out not converting completely over to metric. We were told that if we didn't learn it we would be left behind. If I had listened, I would be the only American converting yards to meters on the golf course.

Canada converted to the metric system.

Funny but only partially.

The golf courses still use yards but did use the metric system after the conversion for awhile and then abandoned it.

The reason the U.S. didn't convert after initially starting to and having Canada join was the cost of converting all the gas pumps in the country.

[newtogolf]

Oil companies, oil producing countries, federal government and some state governments.  Gas stations are told by the oil companies what to set the price at and their profits remain the same regardless of the price.  Have a family memeber who owns a gas station and he's always said if it wasn't for car repairs and inspections he wouldn't make enough money to keep the business going.  Unfortunately many people think he sets the prices so he bears the brunt of the anger and frustration of his customers who think he's just greedy.

Originally Posted by colin007

question - who is making all the money with these gas prices going up?  is it really the oil companies like BP and Exxon?  i know its not the guys that own the gas stations.

[x129]

I would be willing to be serious money that the oil companies do not tell gas stations how to price their gas. That would violate several laws. Besides there is no need. If the gas company says to the station owner that a gallon of gas will cost you 3.95 the owner will add in his nickel market up to get you 4 dollar gas. If the station owners tries to increase his market up to .30, his competitor across the street will be .25 cheaper and will get all the customers. If you don't like 4 dollar gas, don't pay for it. Ride a bike or carpool. If a couple hundred million people in the world all do the same thing the demand and price will drop. Econ 101.

Quote:

Oil companies, oil producing countries, federal government and some state governments.  Gas stations are told by the oil companies what to set the price at and their profits remain the same regardless of the price.  Have a family memeber who owns a gas station and he's always said if it wasn't for car repairs and inspections he wouldn't make enough money to keep the business going.  Unfortunately many people think he sets the prices so he bears the brunt of the anger and frustration of his customers who think he's just greedy.

[newtogolf]

You would lose serious money, go ask a licensed gas station owner (BP, Exxon, Mobile, Sunoco) who sets their gas prices.  In most states a gas station is not allowed to make more than 10 cents a gallon.  I'm also not sure what laws would it violate?  Apple sets their price on iPhones and iPads, Mizuno and Titleist set their price on golf clubs.  There's nothing illegal about a company setting a price and requiring retailers to respect that price.  What would be illegal is if all of the golf companies or gas companies in the industry conspire to a fixed price.

Originally Posted by x129

I would be willing to be serious money that the oil companies do not tell gas stations how to price their gas. That would violate several laws. Besides there is no need. If the gas company says to the station owner that a gallon of gas will cost you 3.95 the owner will add in his nickel market up to get you 4 dollar gas. If the station owners tries to increase his market up to .30, his competitor across the street will be .25 cheaper and will get all the customers. If you don't like 4 dollar gas, don't pay for it. Ride a bike or carpool. If a couple hundred million people in the world all do the same thing the demand and price will drop. Econ 101.

Quote:

[mtsalmela80]

Its that easy? Just ride a bike? Gee why didn't I think of that. Oh wait, there is no bicycle lane on Interstate 84. I suppose I could give up my job and go work at the gas station a mile away.

Originally Posted by x129

I would be willing to be serious money that the oil companies do not tell gas stations how to price their gas. That would violate several laws. Besides there is no need. If the gas company says to the station owner that a gallon of gas will cost you 3.95 the owner will add in his nickel market up to get you 4 dollar gas. If the station owners tries to increase his market up to .30, his competitor across the street will be .25 cheaper and will get all the customers. If you don't like 4 dollar gas, don't pay for it. Ride a bike or carpool. If a couple hundred million people in the world all do the same thing the demand and price will drop. Econ 101.

Quote:

[Mr. Desmond]

Speculation about war and politicians urging war only raises gas prices as oil speculators drive up the price of oil ... look, these guys running for Prez will do anything to win, even to the extent of stopping our economy, so they can get more votes. They've tried to do it for 3.5 years. WIth the economy showing signs of recovery on a natural cycle, they can't have that because it would mean Obama wins -- so they beat the war drums - oil speculators buy, and the price increases, and Obama's rating falls. The Prez has little effect on the overall economy, other than trying to get out of its way by limited means (less regulations, rational tax policy, more incentives).

[x129]

Price fixing. Here is a quote from a gas station guy saying he sets the price: http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/04/11/good-question-who-sets-the-price-at-the-pump/ .  If your state has laws, that is a state issue not an oil company one.

call

Apple and the rest set minimum advertised prices and then use carrot (we give you ad dollars) and stick (no product for you) methods to try and enforce them. Call DiscountDansGolf for an example of a company working around them.  It is a very fine line to walk so they don't get sued for restraint of trade. Everyone know and then they are and you get lawsuits like the Apple EBook price fixing one.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

You would lose serious money, go ask a licensed gas station owner (BP, Exxon, Mobile, Sunoco) who sets their gas prices.  In most states a gas station is not allowed to make more than 10 cents a gallon.  I'm also not sure what laws would it violate?  Apple sets their price on iPhones and iPads, Mizuno and Titleist set their price on golf clubs.  There's nothing illegal about a company setting a price and requiring retailers to respect that price.  What would be illegal is if all of the golf companies or gas companies in the industry conspire to a fixed price.

[x129]

Take the scenic route instead. Or carpool. Or move closer to work. Cut out 30 miles of random driving. Don't take  a family vacation 1000 miles away. Or drive a Prius. There are zillions of ways to cut your gas consumption by 20-30%. With cheap gas (i.e. 4 bucks is still cheap) most of us will not do these things.  And you are the only one that thinks getting a a couple hundred million people to do something is easy. We have build a lifestyle (living far from work and everything else) based on cheap gas. It will take a long time to adjust to more expensive gas and even then at the first price dip, people do stupid things like going back to buying inefficient cars.

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

Its that easy? Just ride a bike? Gee why didn't I think of that. Oh wait, there is no bicycle lane on Interstate 84. I suppose I could give up my job and go work at the gas station a mile away.

[mtsalmela80]

Oh just up and move closer to work? Buy a brand new 25-30000 car, when I'm already driving an economical Hyundai that is paid off. Where is you money tree, can I plant one? Then again, if I had a money tree I wouldn't complain about gas prices anymore.

$4 is NOT cheap. That's absolutely ridiculous. We are near all time highs, NOT cheap!

Originally Posted by x129

Take the scenic route instead. Or carpool. Or move closer to work. Cut out 30 miles of random driving. Don't take  a family vacation 1000 miles away. Or drive a Prius. There are zillions of ways to cut your gas consumption by 20-30%. With cheap gas (i.e. 4 bucks is still cheap) most of us will not do these things.  And you are the only one that thinks getting a a couple hundred million people to do something is easy. We have build a lifestyle (living far from work and everything else) based on cheap gas. It will take a long time to adjust to more expensive gas and even then at the first price dip, people do stupid things like going back to buying inefficient cars.

[inthehole]

You see just as many SUV gas guzzlers on the road today as you did 10 years ago.     $5 a gallon isn't enough to truly hurt the average person & change their habits & vehicle selection.    When gas gets to $7 or $8 a gallon, then, and only then will you see the overwhelming majority of people look for economical vehicles.      Maybe, its a good thing - I never liked the idea of a soccer mom driving a GMC Yukon or Ford Excursion because "its safe", with absolutely no concern for the poor bastard driving a Honda Civic that she would obliterate in an accident.      Higher gas prices would put most everybody on an even playing field...

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

$4 is NOT cheap. That's absolutely ridiculous. We are near all time highs, NOT cheap!

We as Americans tend to think that we are the only relevant breed on this planet.  We pay 1/2 to 1/3 of what the rest of the world pays for gas, excluding petrodictatorships.