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Should Rule 4.4 (Maximum of 14 clubs) be altered?


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Originally Posted by Patrick57

By the way, I am not proposing to change the rule, I am only opening the discussion, "Should the rule be altered?"


The definition of alter:

al·ter /ˈôltər/

Verb:
  1. Change or cause to change in character or composition, typically in a comparatively small but significant way.
  2. Make structural changes to (a building).

So the definition of alter is change.   By inserting the definition into the quoted statement above, we have...

"By the way, I am not proposing to change the rule, I am only opening the discussion, "Should the rule be changed?""

Do you see why everyone else is in agreement that you are proposing to change the rule?    It's because you are!

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Originally Posted by Patrick57

I can only try to make it as clear as possible for you to understand.



You are constantly changing the story, the difficulty and the results.   None of that makes it clear or possible for anyone to understand.   I certainly hope you do a better job of explaining things to your students than you do here..........

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Quote:

As I have quite a lot of experience in this, I am only making an educated and honest observation. I have heard positive feedback about this as a good training method, but I am surprised no one actually tries to play this way. As I do, then I do believe I am a bit of an authority on it.

Until some of my stronger critics actually say I tried it for 10 playing/scoring/counting rounds or the like, I remain, in my opinion, more of an authority on this subject. Because you think its a nonsense and have or will never try it doesn't really give you much credence.

Fair enough.  We agree that it would improve your game as a practice/training method, and we can agree to disagree that we would actually play/score better with 7 clubs instead of 14.  Case closed.

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Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

15 is the number for me.  I have to remove either the 3iron or the 62 degree wedge if I play in tournaments.  15 just fits:

Driver

3-wood

hybrid 2 iron

3-PW irons

52, 58, 62 degree wedges

putter

My bag holds 15 too - I know nothing

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Wind blowing like crazy... 3 iron stays in bag.  Calm day, the hybrid takes its place.  In between... the course determines the choice.  Still carry fourteen clubs either way.

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Originally Posted by Clambake

This whole thread reminds me so much of this:

With Patrick in the John Cleese role.....


No he's not.

'Yes, he is.'

No he's not.

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Originally Posted by RC

Wind blowing like crazy... 3 iron stays in bag.  Calm day, the hybrid takes its place.  In between... the course determines the choice.  Still carry fourteen clubs either way.



Pretty much agree.  I can't see any possible reason for carrying more than 14 clubs.  Carrying a 15th club "just in case" is basically just laziness - an unwillingness to learn how to adapt.  It also invalidates any round played with extra clubs for comparison with your buddies, etc., since you played by your own rules rather than the real rules.

Carrying extra clubs necessarily relegates some of them to a specialty role, something which can eliminated with a tiny bit of practice.  When you learn how golf clubs work, you can make another club do the work that you used to think could only be done by a specialty club.  One example - I used to use a 2I for two things - tee shots, and punching out of trouble when I had to keep the ball low.  Now I can do the punch out with a 5I and still keep the ball as low, or if I need more distance, I can even use a driver from a decent lie.  And I can often hit those shots better than I can a routine iron shot, because they force me to think about it and concentrate on making the shot work.  There are several clubs which can work well for shorter tee shots, thus eliminating the need for the 2I and freeing me up to choose a more generally useful 14th club.

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Sorry, but it appears the OP has too much time on his hands. Or, maybe he has an injury that prevents him from playing golf right away this spring.

For the somewhat serious golfer, around 17 clubs should do it for basic arsenal. But only 14 go in the bag for a given round:

  • Possibly two sand wedges, one high bounce for plush turf and fluffy sand, and a mid-low bounce for firmer turf and sand.
  • Maybe a 3H and a 3i, alternating them depending on the course and the weather.
  • Maybe a second putter which works better on very slow greens than your regular one.

Part of the reason behind the 14-club limit was to reward skill over financial clout. In the 1800s, some rich guys went out with carts containing up to 30 clubs. The average guy who could only afford 7 was at a disadvantage.

And being that all good Sand Trappers decry slow play, having to choose among 16 clubs rather than 14 would make indecisive golfers ever slower.

The social-justice and fairway-throughput consequences of allowing more than 14 clubs would be disastrous. And, it would likely increase world hunger (I'll write more about this on a rainy day when I can't play)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For beginners who seek my counsel on initial bag structure, I recommend 9 or 10 clubs - leave the rest at home until you get a feel for the game. Go with a 3W and 5W, irons 5-PW, a SW and a putter. (They need to take lessons on their own - let's face it, I'm a 23 HDCP).

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Great post WUTiger.  I had not thought about mentioning the different bounce options for sand wedges but indeed I do have two sets of Cleveland sand and lob wedges just for courses with different traps which favor more or less bounce.  However, as time marches on, I have sort of changed my attitude about that and make a swing adjustment for trap shots from different types of sand.  So I am still firmly in the camp of 14 clubs, but do think the conditions might favor one set of choices over another.  There are courses where a 5 wood might be preferrable, for example..

The idea of buying a game with a truck load of clubs for whatever reason seems extreme to me.  I doubt it works.  Heck, it is hard enough for me just trying to decide each day whether to carry the hybrid or the 3 iron, and I wish I was skilled enough to hit the hybrid like a lower flighted 3 iron stinger.  I'm not so I pop the trunck and ponder which club goes in the bag every day.  Silly really.

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Originally Posted by tristanhilton85

Whoa... hold on there... Now you say often times you come in 5 or 6 over par with just a 9 iron... that makes it sound easy.  But you said that it WASN'T easy and that you found it to be a challenge to pull it off.  You just continue to make no sense.


I've just read this post and I agree with the OP, he said bogey golf was a challenge with 9 iron. I also play oftentimes under my handicap but that doesn't mean it was easy. As soon as he makes a statement that gives you an inch of room, there you are jumping down the poor guys throat again. Cut him a bit of slack. I for one will be trying the up to 8 club thing for my handicap. It turns a light on for me.

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Originally Posted by CinTup

I've just read this post and I agree with the OP, he said bogey golf was a challenge with 9 iron. I also play oftentimes under my handicap but that doesn't mean it was easy. As soon as he makes a statement that gives you an inch of room, there you are jumping down the poor guys throat again. Cut him a bit of slack. I for one will be trying the up to 8 club thing for my handicap. It turns a light on for me.


Nice try. Turns out the "CinTup" account - along with the "The JollyGolfer" - are all Patrick57. And you've now all been banned for flagrant abuse of the rules.

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Originally Posted by iacas

Nice try. Turns out the "CinTup" account - along with the "The JollyGolfer" - are all Patrick57. And you've now all been banned for flagrant abuse of the rules.



That is too funny ... and also, too sad.

Talk about trying to control the thread... the guy with multiple personalities, multiple accounts, and apparently, multiple, major psychological issues.

____

As to the thread itself, I say "no," we should not lessen the number of clubs. Second, I think it is a good idea for better players to play with fewer clubs once in a while. I don't think it will make lesser golfers any better. But it would get talented golfers get out of their comfort zone, and make them more creative around the course - so trying it for fun is a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Talk about trying to control the thread... the guy with multiple personalities, multiple accounts, and apparently, multiple, major psychological issues.


Yeah, but only one club.

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Originally Posted by iacas

Nice try. Turns out the "CinTup" account - along with the "The JollyGolfer" - are all Patrick57. And you've now all been banned for flagrant abuse of the rules.



Figures.......

I am a moderator on a diesel truck website and we see this same kind of thing.    I guess some folks don't realize what site admin can see "behind the scenes."

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Originally Posted by iacas

Nice try. Turns out the "CinTup" account - along with the "The JollyGolfer" - are all Patrick57. And you've now all been banned for flagrant abuse of the rules.


What a classic!

Like those poor kids (usually with no siblings) with the "imaginary friends".

Pretty funny that the catalyst for uncovering the scam was simply a post that agreed with him!!

Reminds me of a joke about someone who was claiming unemployment benefits under several names.

The punchline was when his reply to a comment about the "rights of an individual" was "What about my right to be several individuals?".

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7 pages of posts and I still don't get the point of the OP or why it generated 7 pages of responses.

Offhand I think this was a record for the number of fish caught by a troll.

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Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

I don't believe you.  This would be impossible at my course, with two 200 yard forced carries over water off the tee, but even assuming you could do it, i think the *best* you could hope for would be bogey golf.  Do the math - it just doesn't make sense unless you are playing 4,900 yard courses OR putting like a PGA pro (with your 9 iron).  Unless you are about to tell us you hit your 9 iron 200 yards dead straight I don't think you play bogey golf with just a 9 iron on a regulation course.


Sounds feasible to me, if he hits his 9-iron around 150 yards. Say you have a 600-yard par 5; you get on in 4 and 2-putt.

Of course it would probably be a bit easier with a 7-iron or so.

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