Teeing Up Irons (Par 3 or Otherwise)

[saevel25]

Even with the angle of decent for an iron, there is to much loft for the iron to hit the ball into the ground. For the direction of the ball to initially start downward to the ground, just to be redirected upward up the clubface, you would need to have probably less than 5 degrees of loft. The reason is, the edge of the club is still hitting below the equator of the ball, so the ball will be redirected with the angle of the clubface upward.

[Bullitt5339]

How about the last discussion I read on this where high speed videos were shown, and the one guy who was adamant about the ball was pinched into the ground admitted after seeing the proof and science that it wasn't true.  It's what you want to "feel", not what's actually going on.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/15607/ball-actually-pinched-against-ground-or-not

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Even with the angle of decent for an iron, there is to much loft for the iron to hit the ball into the ground. For the direction of the ball to initially start downward to the ground, just to be redirected upward up the clubface, you would need to have probably less than 5 degrees of loft. The reason is, the edge of the club is still hitting below the equator of the ball, so the ball will be redirected with the angle of the clubface upward.

Not for Moe Normal or Golfsmith though... Haven't you been listening?

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by luu5

Can you please put few of those links up?

http://golftips.golfsmith.com/golf-instruction-compress-2445.html

http://www.golftuts.com/lesson/learn-compress-through-the-ball/7085/

http://www.livestrong.com/article/179510-how-to-hit-a-golf-ball-with-your-irons/

http://golf.about.com/cs/tipslessons/a/hitdowndammit.htm

http://ocgolfcourse.com/29-ways-to-hit-a-solid-golf-shot/

[Bullitt5339]

Just go watch some slow motion video of descending iron blows, we don't need to have this whole discussion again.  Moe Norman and other instructors never had access to the technology we do, and couldn't see what was actually happening, and simply described the feeling you should get.  Game over, discussion over.  Science and high speed video > any golf instructor.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339

Just go watch some slow motion video of descending iron blows, we don't need to have this whole discussion again.  Moe Norman and other instructors never had access to the technology we do, and couldn't see what was actually happening, and simply described the feeling you should get.  Game over, discussion over.  Science and high speed video > any golf instructor.

I'll check them out.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Just checked out a couple of these images.  I must say, I was wrong.  This conversation has been helpful for me.  I do apologize for stating my opinion as fact, especially considering it was wrong.  I still will try to feel like I'm compressing the ball between the club and the ground even if in reality that is not what is happening.  Again thanks.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Paradox

"And I tee the ball a little higher than most players do."

"I always felt that air had less resistance than dirt. What puzzles me is when players take a tee, jam it all the way in the ground, then put the ball on top o fit. Why is the tee there? "

Golf Digest March 2012 issue, page 40, Flick & Nicklaus lesson tee.

no misreading of the quote.

Fair enough. Here's the link:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2012-03/flick-nicklaus-tee-highter

I can google image search and find several images of Jack hitting irons where you can't see the tee at all like the image in that article (would have been stupid for them to use one of those in that article), but I'll admit I was wrong on this one. :) Thanks for the reply.

I'd just caution people that Jack says "a little higher." If you're teeing the ball half an inch in the air it's probably too high.

Another image:

1986 Masters: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w81j8dXzHQI/0.jpg (can see a teeny bit of tee)

You can find more, of course.

I'm good with calling it a quarter of an inch.

The ball's only 1.68. The image isn't the highest resolution but the tee is 2 pixels tall and the ball is 11 pixels tall. That's 0.15 inches per pixel, so we get 0.3 inches for the tee height.

And I'm not doing this to disprove or prove anything. Just procrastinating some other work and was curious what the numbers would come out to based on my guess of a quarter inch. He tees it up a bit higher than I thought, but not as high as some people might read that as.

Back on topic please.

[saevel25]

I tee the ball really low with irons, i just do it because i am gauranteed the same conditions each time on a par 3. IF you throw a ball down, you don't know if the ball will rest in a small indent, or be puffed up on a bit of grass. For me its just habit and for consistancy..

[Bullitt5339]

Originally Posted by saevel25

I tee the ball really low with irons, i just do it because i am gauranteed the same conditions each time on a par 3. IF you throw a ball down, you don't know if the ball will rest in a small indent, or be puffed up on a bit of grass. For me its just habit and for consistancy..

I don't know anyone, tee or no tee, who just throws the ball down on a tee box.  Even though I don't use a tee, I place the ball softly on a patch of nice grass.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339

I don't know anyone, tee or no tee, who just throws the ball down on a tee box.  Even though I don't use a tee, I place the ball softly on a patch of nice grass.

Tin Cup did it in his 7 iron distance competition.  Just saying.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by iacas

Less resistance to what? The ball's gone by the time the club gets into the ground? I think you might have misread Jack's quote. I remember him saying "if you can give yourself a perfect lie, do." I tee my irons up really low to the ground. That's how they're hit normally. If I want to take a little distance off I'll tee it a tad higher because you'll catch it a little higher on the face.

I use the same method.

As to the OP, your issue is probably a lack of concentration/focus if you play inconsistently with short irons off tees -i.e.,  some rounds great, other rounds, terrible.

Stay focused and energized for 1.3 seconds - think about putting in a waggle to relax.

[Zeph]

I always use a tee, but don't put it very high. I want a perfect lie, but I don't want the ball to sit higher than it does on the fairway. You hit so many irons off the deck during a round, it only makes sense to me that you tee it up at a similar height. If you got a swing where you hit the ball first consistently, you don't really need that extra height to prevent mishits. Teeing it high can lead to more flipping, and if you really hit it like you do on a fairway shot, you'll hit it higher on the face, which can affect the distance. TL:DR: I want to simulate a perfect lie in the fairway. I would get uneasy if I saw the ball sitting higher.

[jamo]

I tee the ball up, barely. It's probably mostly a mental thing. I used to have the problem of flipping short irons right under the ball, but I don't really get that anymore, I just focus on swinging down and through the ball.

[GaijinGolfer]

I usually tee it so that the ball is just barely off the ground.  Just enough to give me a perfect lie but still low enough that I dont need to make any compensations in my swing.  Nicklaus' quote of, "air has less resistance than dirt" is valid but that doesnt mean you should tee it up high.  His comment is more than by teeing it up you have a greater margin of error incase you hit it a bit fat.

[limoric]

Originally Posted by keeps21

Does anyone else struggle with this?

I suffered badly yesterday with topping my tee shots with 8-PW on a short par 3 course I played.

I'd make a few good practice swings but as soon as I had the ball up on the tee it all went to pot. I usually hit them fine off the floor.

The problem may have been from looking up too early - I was playing by myself, so watching my ball like a hawk - I didn't have this problem on Wednesday when I played with a partner.

You are trying to pick the ball off the tee rather than trying to strick down and through the ball. I tee PW and up, but level with the ground, the tee only guarantees a perfect lie. I still take a divot. The exception might be with a 4 through 2 iron, though I hit hybrids these days, the tee gets pushed down until my fingers touch the ground...

[joekelly]

Seems curious that many here tell OP you that he is  'picking the ball up' or scooping etc. Yet, none have seen OP's  swing. My spin on OP's problem is also my problem often, regardless of club.  I do not attempt to pick the ball, or flick it or scoop it-no, i try supremely hard to HIT THE BALL.  This is my mistake. The ball is not a log and the club is not an axe. What happens to me, maybe others, is that my life conditioning and experience overrides my golf sense and accordingly my shoulders begin the swing which results in many problems. Including shitty shots. So noiw i must, must, repeat my mantra before each swing to find a decent outcome. My mantra is 3 fold. 1. Takeaway right hand high  2. On backswing peek at ball with left eye only (per advice of Sam Snead) and 3.  HIPS, HIPS, HIPS.  That's it. If i think of any more, i'm f*cked. So my humble advice OP, is to find some way to rid yourself of the desire the HIT THE BALL.  Best wishes, it's a difficult task.

[Paradox]

For the record, I wasn't implying that anyone should tee a ball up an inch high for an iron shot.  And the comment about resistance had no bearing to me..thats just what Jack said.

The part that I found to be true is that teeing it up above the ground(think, 1/4 inch above the turf) works very well and I've hit my purest iron tee shots doing that.  I used to be another that would just plunge the tee down to the ground and then set the ball on it..I've even hit with no tee for a while and while they do work...I make great contact more consistently when teeing it up off the ground.