2012 Arnold Palmer Invitational Discussion Thread

[BruceMGF]

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

Yeah but what if he played in that tournament that Luke won, and/or played at Bay Hill and placed well, wouldn't he have maintained the number 1 ranking?

But what if Tiger had never gone to Las Vegas for anything but golf tournaments?  He'd still be number 1, right?

And what if Nicklaus had never gotten old?

[sonicblue]

It's really pretty amazing when you think about it.  They were talking to Ernie about how off his game has been for a year and a half.  Sergio is a mess (still).  Phil had a horrible week.  There are so many players out there who did not go through the ridiculous turn of personal events Tiger has in the last two years, yet they're still struggling to compete consistently.  Meanwhile, we've all put this albatross around Tiger's neck of winning, but looking at his last few months, this guy is playing some staggeringly consistent, competitive golf, now finally getting a convincing win in VERY difficult conditions, with a guy in the last group with him who has taken him down before.  And he's done it all after going through a period where people basically have been trashing the very fabric of his personal being.

As a pure translation to the game of golf, I find it hard to say anything other than, Tiger is simply the toughest competitive golfer out there, ever.  What he has had to grind through - physically and mentally, both of which have been astronomical hurdles - to come out and play like he did this weekend, manage his game, manage the conditions, and win by a bunch of strokes, is just amazing.

[newtogolf]

When Tiger is hitting the ball well he intimidates because he keeps the pressure on the guys behind him.  The announcers were also saying that when he's in the lead he's not very fun to be paired with in that he's all business, no talking, no joking, plus everyone in the gallery is pulling for Tiger.

When you're behind there are two ways you can catch up, hope the guy winning blows up or take more chances.  Tiger knows how to play with the lead and he did it perfectly yesterday.  I believe he was -2 for the round, which was the best score posted by anyone in the top 10.

Originally Posted by jhwmusic

I said I realize golf is an individual sport and is different in the sense that you can't play defense or block a punch.  Did you even read the whole post?

I know Tiger can't physically do anything about how you hit your driver.  But if he makes you nervous, you are intimidated by him, Right?  Some just want to prove themselves to the best player and try too hard and hit it all over the lot.  By even getting in their heads like that, they are in fact intimidated.  They won't admit it, but you know it creeps into their mind.  They don't want to make a fool out themselves.  So if he can make you nervous, he can affect how you hit shots.  And I'm not talking about Tiger in the present day...I am talking when he was dominating almost every tournament he entered.  But he is well on his way back to that point.  Granted he will have Rory and few others to fight it out with, but the rest of the field sees when certain players have what they don't....and that intimidates them.  Rory has an intimidation factor, Phil has it, and so do some others to an extent when they are on their game.  Intimidation is the same as nerves.

And the looking good on the range and not taking it the course happens to every golfer on the planet.  So I don't even buy into that.   I'm talking when he has that swagger, when he truly has killer instinct.  They know when he's got it and when he doesn't.

I totally get everything you are saying...and you're side of it...and agree to some point.    But you can't say that there aren't players out there that aren't intimidated by Tiger Woods...our at least by the being in his presence.  Come on!   I there are people out there like Phil and Gary that do things that others can't.  But Gary and Phil don't have 72 wins and 14 majors.  Nicklaus had it in his day, Hogan, Bobby jones and so on.  Lesser players would crumble because they would get too caught up in playing with these guys...which is a form of intimidation.

[topspin4hand]

Originally Posted by BruceMGF

The "Rory Era" sure was short, wasn't it?  :-)

It was short ... lol. You know I gotta mention Rory's great sense of humor. He cropped his Twitter profile pic (of him holding the #1 finger up) so that his finger was not visible, and then typed, "at least my profile pic is relevant again!"  Funny and terrific.

I'm really excited for The Masters now.  I may even take off or just 'work remotely' that day.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

For those of you downplaying the wind yesterday in Orlando (and I went back and re-read comments) it was pretty gusty (over 20 mph). It was windy down south of Orlando, so I witnessed it for myself and after talking to people in the Orlando area, it was a factor in the day's scoring, certainly not a gale but strong enough to keep the field from beating the course. Tiger's immediate comments about his win confirm this, " It was just pure joy. You know, it was tough today. It was tough conditions out there, man. Wind was whipping out there. It was changing directions and intensities. Arnold did a hell of a job of getting these greens fast, and they were baked out and some of the hardest pins I've ever seen here. So I don't know what the average score was today, but certainly wasn't anywhere near par. It was a tough day. It was a very tough day."

He handled it very well, hit the shots required, and got up and down when he misjudged it as he has at times in the British, Doral, Pebble, Torrey, and any other time during his 70 plus worldwide victories. The fact that he and others may feel that wind is not his strength may be correct, as we all know that his real strength is winning golf tournaments in all types of conditions.

Tiger hit 4-iron from 204 on 14, and came up about 10-yards short.  A comment on air was made about a "wall of wind."

Then he hit 7-iron from 196 on 16, and came up about 10-yards long.

I think it was windy.  Tiger started the day with a 1-shot lead, shot a 70 (not a speactacular Sunday number for a winner), and finished with a 5-shot lead.  That tells me the playing was really tough.

[sonicblue]

I was just reading the golf.com article on Tiger's win.  I had to double-take:

"Bay Hill marked Woods's last start before the Masters at Augusta National, where Woods hasn't finished worse than a tie for sixth since 2004 ."

Take careful note of that comment.  Just five months after "2-Iron-Gate" and then a year after that, somewhere admist the change in swing coaches (can't remember exactly when that happened) and the recovery from the "under the pine tree swing" injury.... Tiger kept the "top 6" streak alive at Augusta.

Think of the number of golfers out there that come to Augusta feeling completely primed and ready, game in top form - without the media basically expecting/pushing you to win - who can't say that.  It reminds me of what I like about watching Tiger: no matter what state his swing or game (or life!) is in, he manages to get out there and just grind, just manage, just keep working to get into contention.  Even when someone isn't right there within a shot or two, you never get the feeling he pays any less attention to each shot.  Here's hoping for a GREAT Masters!

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Tiger hit 4-iron from 204 on 14, and came up about 10-yards short.  A comment on air was made about a "wall of wind."

Then he hit 7-iron from 196 on 16, and came up about 10-yards long.

I think it was windy.  Tiger started the day with a 1-shot lead, shot a 70 (not a speactacular Sunday number for a winner), and finished with a 5-shot lead.  That tells me the playing was really tough.

Exactly, and that was 204 to the pin, not the front of the green so he probably that 4i about 180-185. GMac hit 3H and fared no better. Whipping was a good descriptor as it was pretty stiff at times.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

Exactly, and that was 204 to the pin, not the front of the green so he probably that 4i about 180-185. GMac hit 3H and fared no better. Whipping was a good descriptor as it was pretty stiff at times.

Your point? Specifically: what does a performance in 2012 have to do with performances in 1997-2010?

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Tiger hit 4-iron from 204 on 14, and came up about 10-yards short.  A comment on air was made about a "wall of wind."

Then he hit 7-iron from 196 on 16, and came up about 10-yards long.

I think it was windy.  Tiger started the day with a 1-shot lead, shot a 70 (not a speactacular Sunday number for a winner), and finished with a 5-shot lead.  That tells me the playing was really tough.

Only two players in the entire field had a lower final round. None in the top 14. Not bad for a supposedly 'not good' wind player.

Yeah yeah I know. It was his skill that got him the 70, not being a great wind player. Whatever.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by iacas

Your point? Specifically: what does a performance in 2012 have to do with performances in 1997-2010?

Nothing. My point is that the wind was blowing more than people seem to think based on the comments in this thread. This seems more than just a one-club breeze for 2 guys to come up this short hitting 4 iron and 3 hybrid. Certainly this hole is not an example of superb wind play (although I think the prudent play was short right under the hole), but an example of just how gusty it was in Orlando which was pretty well discounted by people not in the immediate area.

[colin007]

he played better yesterday than the vast majority of the field.  that 70 compared to the rest is like a 66 normally.  i saw a lot of +3s and +4s...

[mtsalmela80]

If Graeme just put up a 70 it would have been a different tournament all together.

Originally Posted by colin007

he played better yesterday than the vast majority of the field.  that 70 compared to the rest is like a 66 normally.  i saw a lot of +3s and +4s...

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by colin007

he played better yesterday than the vast majority of the field.  that 70 compared to the rest is like a 66 normally.  i saw a lot of +3s and +4s...

Absolutely, Tiger had command. He had the second best round going with two others in the field besting him with 68s. I am no Tiger fan-boy, but I was glad to see the control he had with his game and he should bring it to the Master's for more excitement.

[Zeph]

Only two players in the entire field had a lower final round. None in the top 14. Not bad for a supposedly 'not good' wind player. Yeah yeah I know. It was his skill that got him the 70, not being a great wind player. Whatever.

Jeez louise... Do you just skip everyone's answers and post the same stuff over and over again? Tiger used to be a poor player in the wind. His recent swing changes has made him considerably better in windy conditions. Proven in Australia and at Bay Hill, as a start. He hasn't played a whole lot with the changes really in effect, but as far as I can tell, he's a much better player in the wind today.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by iacas

Your point? Specifically: what does a performance in 2012 have to do with performances in 1997-2010?

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

Nothing. My point is that the wind was blowing more than people seem to think based on the comments in this thread. This seems more than just a one-club breeze for 2 guys to come up this short hitting 4 iron and 3 hybrid. Certainly this hole is not an example of superb wind play (although I think the prudent play was short right under the hole), but an example of just how gusty it was in Orlando which was pretty well discounted by people not in the immediate area.

We weren't commenting on 1997-2010.  We were commenting on the "it was a slight breeze" comment made earlier.  Tiger's stock 6-iron is about 205; he hit 4-iron from 205 and came up way short on that hole.  He followed it with a 210-yard 7-iron a two holes later.  He also hit a 265-yard 3-iron yesterday.

The point is that the wind was affecting the ball yesterday.  Pretty significantly too, just from looking at the numbers cited above.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Yeah yeah I know. It was his skill that got him the 70, not being a great wind player. Whatever.

Zip, I don't think anyone's saying he is currently a relatively poor wind player. There's plenty of ink out there about how relatively poor Tiger was in the wind prior to 2011. Tiger's even talked about it. He's said that he's hitting the ball better, it's getting through the wind better, he's becoming a much better wind player than he was prior, etc.

Originally Posted by colin007

he played better yesterday than the vast majority of the field.  that 70 compared to the rest is like a 66 normally.  i saw a lot of +3s and +4s...

I wonder what the "adjusted score" was for the day. It's my understanding that the scoring average (Vardon Trophy) at the end of the year is based on the adjusted scoring average for the player, so that players who play the John Deere or whatever aren't rewarded over those who play at Bay Hill, The Memorial, Quail Hollow, etc.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

If Graeme just put up a 70 it would have been a different tournament all together.

Yeah. Tiger would have won by one shot.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Jeez louise... Do you just skip everyone's answers and post the same stuff over and over again? Tiger used to be a poor player in the wind. His recent swing changes has made him considerably better in windy conditions. Proven in Australia and at Bay Hill, as a start. He hasn't played a whole lot with the changes really in effect, but as far as I can tell, he's a much better player in the wind today.

I don't skip over everyone's answers...I just don't agree with them. His record proves otherwise.