Is shaping the ball overrated

[stogiesnbogies]

I have never seen a everyday kind of  amateur who could hit a lob wedge the same way twice...unless you count repeated chunks and skulls.....cant even think of a player at my club who could-maybe the club champ and the teaching pro... ...and play with no one who wastes valuable bag space on something they cant hit.....probably the reason that Cleveland Niblick wedges stop at 56 degrees, eh? Since they are designed to improve the game of the double digit capper -both mid and high -which I remind you is the overwhelming majority of golfers....

If you are a single digit capper go ahead and carry a LW - hell why stop there ?! Lets get Phils 62 and 68 degree wedge...have a custom built 70 -skies the limit for masochism , no?

and hit from the pro tees otherwise youre both an imposter and a game delay.

If you wish to make a hard game more difficult -be my guest.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by stogiesnbogies

I have never seen a everyday kind of  amateur who could hit a lob wedge the same way twice...unless you count repeated chunks and skulls.....cant even think of a player at my club who could-maybe the club champ and the teaching pro... ...and play with no one who wastes valuable bag space on something they cant hit.....probably the reason that Cleveland Niblick wedges stop at 56 degrees, eh? Since they are designed to improve the game of the double digit capper -both mid and high -which I remind you is the overwhelming majority of golfers....

If you are a single digit capper go ahead and carry a LW - hell why stop there ?! Lets get Phils 62 and 68 degree wedge...have a custom built 70 -skies the limit for masochism , no?

and hit from the pro tees otherwise youre both an imposter and a game delay.

If you wish to make a hard game more difficult -be my guest.

Now you're just trolling. Or you play at the worst club around.

[buj77]

Really not sure how this tread went from shot shaping to a discussion about wedges...I think how many wedges a player carries is a very personal thing...as is the case with all the scoring clubs...wedge play is mostly about feel...so having the right clubs in your bag (I.e...what feels right to you)..is extremely important...if having a LW in the bag makes you feel better about your short game and gives you confidence...keep it in your bag...otherwise...there's no point carrying one (the same can be said about the driver (so many people keep one in the bag without hardly ever hitting it in a round because of lack of confidence in the club)..or fairway woods/long irons (you can trade up for hybrids if you're not comfortable). As for why ametures struggle with wedges...I really don't think loft is as much of an issue as bounce (it's the leading edge that an ameture sees at address that either has him feeling he's going to hit it thin or fat...not the actual loft of the club)...normally manufacturers will offer lower bounce clubs (as standard) upto 56 degrees because the SW is considered to be a specialized club (generally 56-58 degrees) and to get the ball out of the sand you generally need more bounce (of course it depends on course condition and how you strike your bunker shots as well but I am generalizing here)...past 56 degrees and usually the manufacturers lower the bounce on clubs again (so usually a LW will have a lot less bounce than a SW)...the reason for this is that manufacturers presume that these clubs are more for playing off turf than sand (where the extra bounce isn't required because the lie is tighter)...so a LW should actually be a lot easier to hit off the fairway/from the rough than the SW because of the lower bounce... The other thing I would say about buying/using wedges is that more often than not when I have seen people buying wedges, they will usually pick the brands they think are cool and then take them out to the range to try them (or in some cases they won't even try before buying)...most ametures never look at the sole of the club when buying a wedge (which is the most important thing when buying a wedge)...the specs are important yes...but having a sole that allows you to do different things with the wedge is probably just as important as the right loft/bounce for your game/conditions. Play what works for you/feels right when it comes to scoring clubs...they are the most important clubs in the bag! Personally I play a 48 (6 degree bounce), 52 (7 degree bounce) and 56 (13 degree bounce)...I carry the 48 because my irons have very strong lofts (the PW is 44! And I basically treat it like a 9 iron)...anything within 100 yards and I use the 48 or 52 (I am pretty comfortable opening/closing the face and playing different types of shots)...and I almost exclusively use the 56 from the sand. It works for me...havent ever used a 60 degree wedge and really see no reason to carry one personally...if my wedge play sucked...I might consider trying one...but fortunately I don't have to.

[stogiesnbogies]

It's quite possible I play at the" worst club around".....but I dont see many double digit cappers wasting space in their bag on lob or higher lofted clubs...

[stogiesnbogies]

"Play what works for you/feels right when it comes to scoring clubs...they are the most important clubs in the bag!"

Couldnt agree more....but I wouldnt limit this to only scoring clubs....the game is still as Bobby Jones said "turning 4 shots into 3" and there are no photos on the scorecard...

Cheers.

[luu5]

Luckily Bubba did not know that shaping the ball is overrated.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by luu5

Luckily Bubba did not know that shaping the ball is overrated.

Well in his case, so is hitting fairways.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by luu5

Luckily Bubba did not know that shaping the ball is overrated.

Noone is talking about hitting massive deliberate cuts and slices when they talk about "shaping" the ball.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by luu5

Luckily Bubba did not know that shaping the ball is overrated.

Well, you go out and start practicing that shot right away, just to be prepared in case you need it for a one-in-a-lifetime opportunity to win the Masters in a playoff.

Brandon

[luu5]

Come on guys, chill out!

[I-league]

The whole business of selling "special" wedges in addition to the iron set is a bit of  a scam anyway. You could get wedges cheaper with your iron set and get more forgiving clubs that have the benefit of feeling exactly like the rest of your irons. I think most amateurs could play Rbz wedges and probably do better then with the Vokeys, Scratch or other fancy wedges. The whole thing about "feel" is a bit of a joke too. All you try to do with a wedge is either pop the ball out of the sand (in which case the club face doesn't even touch the ball) or just try to make good contact and put enough weight on it so the ball has a good chances of stopping within 10 feet. None of that requires special Japanese forging.

[buj77]

I agree to some extent....the whole reason for a lot of these specialist wedges being out there is because of messed up distance gapping between the short irons. Back in the day everyone carried 2 wedges that came with their sets..PW and SW. The PW was basically a 10 iron (4 or 6 degree gap to your 9 iron) and the SW was exactly what its name suggested....only meant to be played out of the sand with a much higher loft (usually 54-56 degrees with the PW being at 48-51 degrees). The stronger iron lofts these days has meant that manufacturers have basically taken the 10 iron out of the bag....which has meant that you either need to specially ask the manufacturer for it or go buy a 10 iron (i.e the traditional PW club)...a lot of the manufacturers seeing this, have also stopped offering sets with SW's (or charge extra for it), so now you need to buy that as well (either as an extension of your current set or you can go buy one from another manufacturer). As for the other wedges seen these days...GW...LW...etc...I think its up to each person to find what they think works for them.

I do however, disagree with you on feel...I think its very important in respect of all clubs...but more so with shorter clubs...you want to feel good when you hit the ball whether its a drive,an iron shot a chip or even a put (at least it makes a difference to me and is a big part of why I play golf...i.e. the feeling you get in your hands when you hit a  good shot). As regards the short game, there is an added focus on what your hands are doing (and indeed in respect of your whole swing) because the point of shorter clubs is accuracy (more than distance). Granted, many of us may not be able to tell the difference between cast or forged or between carbon and stainless steel...but what feels good to each individual is in my view a critical consideration in respect of what equipment you chose to play with. Of course you may totally disagree and I respect that...just putting my views out there.

Originally Posted by I-league

The whole business of selling "special" wedges in addition to the iron set is a bit of  a scam anyway. You could get wedges cheaper with your iron set and get more forgiving clubs that have the benefit of feeling exactly like the rest of your irons. I think most amateurs could play Rbz wedges and probably do better then with the Vokeys, Scratch or other fancy wedges. The whole thing about "feel" is a bit of a joke too. All you try to do with a wedge is either pop the ball out of the sand (in which case the club face doesn't even touch the ball) or just try to make good contact and put enough weight on it so the ball has a good chances of stopping within 10 feet. None of that requires special Japanese forging.

[allin]

Lob wedges, Drivers, and long irons wouldn't be in the bags of the world's best players if they weren't worth learning how to hit. Granted you don't need the clubs to play very good golf, but there isn't a replacement for any of them that's quite the same. Maybe they're not the right priority for high handicaps, since polishing your short game and specialty shots will shave off a few strokes at best while the long game is a bigger priority. A lot of players are shameless posers who carry the LW to act like Phil, admittedly. But there are players with a handicap of 9 or above that could benefit from a lofted wedge, including those with a great short game, those who struggle with long pitch shots and want a shorter club on a full swing, those who want extra spin and height on approaches, Those who use a high lofted wedge from bunkers, and those who want an extra option with less bounce for various lies. FWIW, if you are good with a 60* wedge it should go in the bag. No matter how good you are with it, it should be used based on handicap? Try the exact opposite of that statement. And it takes a pure ball striker to be consistent with ANY club. A crappy player will fare worse with an open sand wedge due to the extra bounce, open face, and the speed with which you need to hit the shot; there's little margin for error. Lob wedges are usually designed to be opened and hit from a variety of lies, while most SWs are chunky and designed to displace sand and rough. It's like saying we don't need a 7 iron because you could choke up on that 6 or hit the 8 hard and cover 90% of the difference. A LW isn't a necessary club if bag space is an issue, and it doesn't have a lot of versatility, but it is a huge asset if you need that type of shot often and especially on fast greens.

This is me. I have a bad back, hip, and was never long. I am normally around a 13-14 handicap, but am good with a lob wedge. Posters stating that mid handicap. Golfers should never use a lob wedge really should reflect on why golfers are mid handicap. Mids usually have some skills but also weak areas. The lob wedge is not any more difficult to hit than a sandwedge . If you over use your hands or arms or fail to turn properly the LW will bite you. If you can't hit a LW properly it is unlikely you hit a SW properly. Opening up a LW can allow you to make some incredible saves when up close and unable to swing hard enough to generate much spin, like SW devotees prefer but even more so.

[I-league]

Sure feel is important. But I think "feel" is mostly a function if the quality of the contact you make with the ball and the ground.

Ping and Taylor Made offer 9-PW-SW sets but yeah some manufacturers force you to buy separate SW.

[buj77]

I agree...more hours practcing or at golf lessons are a much better investment than a whole bunch of new clubs...assuming your game has a certain level of consistancy then things like feel etc...count a lot more... [quote name="I-league" url="/t/56561/is-shaping-the-ball-overrated/126#post_698591"]

Sure feel is important. But I think "feel" is mostly a function if the quality of the contact you make with the ball and the ground.

Ping and Taylor Made offer 9-PW-SW sets but yeah some manufacturers force you to buy separate SW.

[/quote]

[goodatgolf]

Hey there,

I think shaping the ball isn't overrated at all. IMO every player good or bad can learn alot I mean quite a lot by incorporating shot shaping into his practice sessions. Ball position, club face, swing plane, grip, posture, feet position, transition etc. you learn about all aspects of your swing if you deliberately try to shape your shots. The worst hacker with the biggest bananaballs will learn a ton if he just tries to hook his balls for half an hour.

On the course I agree that you most seldomly have a tree in front of you to play around, just to take the classic example. And most likely every amateur will do just fine with his bread and butter swing. But in your practice sessions you can do no wrong by deliberatly slicing, hooking, drawing and fading a bucket of balls all over the place.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by I-league

The whole business of selling "special" wedges in addition to the iron set is a bit of  a scam anyway. You could get wedges cheaper with your iron set and get more forgiving clubs that have the benefit of feeling exactly like the rest of your irons. I think most amateurs could play Rbz wedges and probably do better then with the Vokeys, Scratch or other fancy wedges. The whole thing about "feel" is a bit of a joke too. All you try to do with a wedge is either pop the ball out of the sand (in which case the club face doesn't even touch the ball) or just try to make good contact and put enough weight on it so the ball has a good chances of stopping within 10 feet. None of that requires special Japanese forging.

Some people don't need or want more forgiveness with their wedges.

Some want the precision that a blade offers for shots from 120 and in -- in my case, about 105 and in for Gap, SW, LW.

Some people are very good with short length blade wedges but not good with long length blade irons - lol - it's why you see mixed sets, or guys playing blade wedges. They can hit them.

No club "requires" special Japanese forging. But some people prefer it. Golf is a game played between the ears at a certain level. If you love your club ... it gives you confidence. And what people love is different for each of them.

And from what I understand, it's easier to shape a smaller headed club ... (had to get something about shaping the ball into the post).

[saevel25]

Larger golf heads have a higher MOI, and larger sweet spot, this means more forgiveness on mis hits. On center hits, i doubt the clubs are that much different from each other, GI clubs would launch a bit higher, while player irons would launch a bit lower, but they would react similarly. There are Pro's who play non player irons and shape there shots. I think true blades you can shape more, but i rather have some forgiveness just incase. As for wedges, i like player irons for my short irons. They have alot of loft, so they are a bit harder to turn left to right, and are harder to mishit. So, you can get away with them being more player irons.