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If possible, I think I have less respect for LPGA talent after hearing this


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Originally Posted by shades9323

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin007

yes i can.  and i suck.

hole in one is a lot of luck and (possibly) a lot of skill.  holing out from the sand is a lot of skill and not so much luck.

Are you saying that you can hole out from the sand at will?



You can't? I thought every average amateur had the bunker holeout in his bag of tricks.

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Hey, it's only the third time she ever hit INTO a sand trap.  LOL

Seriously?

I'm sure any of them could spot you five a side & still kick your butt.



Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I played 9-holes back in the 90's with then LPGA professional Tammie Green.  While I was driving it past her on several holes, she hit every green in regulation.  She shot a 34 to my 39 on a par 36.  And I literally felt like I lost by 12 shots because she was throwing darts. To my scrapping around trying to get up and down from everywhere.



Had a similar experience with Juli Inkister at Minneapolis Golf Club a few years back. Never hit anything that I would call spectaular but she didnt have too. All she did was hit fairways and greens. All day long. Made it look so simple..

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then how do u explain 40+ handicaps getting a hole in one, while some pros never get one??

Originally Posted by x129

A hole in 1 isn't luck either. It is just the skill of hitting ball the right distance and direction just like holing out from the sand. It just happens about 20x less frequently.  Holing out from the sand, chipping in from 30 ft, or putting from 40 ft are have a skill component but they happen rarely enough that when one happens saying you got lucky is pretty accurate. Of course this all comes down to your definition of luck.



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I remember years ago Gary Player holed out a sand shot in a critical situation.  Asked about it later, he explained that there was no way to stop the ball on the green, so holing it out was the only shot he had.

:-)

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A few people here need to study up on their probability and statistics.

To modify the old saw a bit: the more skilled you are, the more often luck is going to give you a hand. Luck vs skill is not an either-or proposition.

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Originally Posted by chriskzoo

Yes, I know that the LPGA plays a much similar game to most of us amateurs


Oh?? Really? Most of "us" amateurs would play off + handicaps. Didn't realise that.

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Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

then how do u explain 40+ handicaps getting a hole in one, while some pros never get one??



If x129 was talking about pro's I could see the point they were trying to make but it in no way would apply amateurs. My first hole in one was a horrible pull that got a decent kick ran along a slope on the green and ended up in the hole. I've seen a some other hole in ones where the player hit the shot they were trying to and it went in the hole but most of the ones I've seen were absolutely luck.

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the LPGA pros deserve a lot more respect then they get. Sure a lot of the girls on tour aren't bombing it like the PGA guys but thats a pretty tough comparison. Yani is super young and is pace to be the best LPGA player ever. She is long of the tee and great around the greens, she would be one of the only ones that could cut it on the PGA IMO. It is kind of a joke to use any hole outs from bunker stats when saying you are loosing respect for the LPGA. They good, really good.

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My local pro played with two sisters back in 1992 or so, they used the same tee he thought it strange, at the forth tee he asked what did you say your name was again?

He played with Anikka sorenstam and her sister.

Middle of fairway, long and greens in regulation.

The difference of skill is higher with LPGA than PGA no doubt, but the best girls are good.

30-100 place in PGA difference is one shot a round.

much bigger difference in LPGA.

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what im trying to say is there are many more times when i am trying to actually get it in the hole from the sand than i am trying to hit a hole in one from the tee.  nobody really stands on the tee and says theyre trying to hole out, they are trying to do it from the bunker much more.

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Originally Posted by sean_miller

You can't? I thought every average amateur had the bunker holeout in his bag of tricks.



Much like Yani, I rarely ever visit the bunker!

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Well for one thing most 40+ handicaps are playing easier par 3s than a pro. The odds of holing out at 120 yards is different than holing out on a 180 yard one. I am guessing if you talk the pros they will all have a 120 yard shot that they holed out at some point. And I neither golfer has played enough to get to the long term. Have the pro and the amateur play 100k shots on the same hole, and I will put my money on the pro holing more of them.

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

then how do u explain 40+ handicaps getting a hole in one, while some pros never get one??



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All the par 3s around here are pretty legit lengths. Only one executive course has a couple par 3s 150 or less. these are courses where the par 4s are all 300-350 and the par 5s are 475 at most.

Originally Posted by x129

Well for one thing most 40+ handicaps are playing easier par 3s than a pro. The odds of holing out at 120 yards is different than holing out on a 180 yard one. I am guessing if you talk the pros they will all have a 120 yard shot that they holed out at some point. And I neither golfer has played enough to get to the long term. Have the pro and the amateur play 100k shots on the same hole, and I will put my money on the pro holing more of them.



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Originally Posted by meenman

You cant hole out of the sand at will any more than you can from the tee box - the bunkers tend to be a bit closer to the pin than the tee box is.



But you are guaranteed 4 chances at a hole-in-one in each round, you are not certain to hit into 4 greenside bunkers in each round - so you get more chances to hole out on a par 3.

I think I've lost respect for the OP based on this one thread that was started.

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My point was the someone playing from the middle tees tends to be 20-30 yards closer to the hole.  There are exceptions I am sure. But whenever your read about some 10 year old holing out it is often something like a 70 yard hole. For what it is worth length has nothing to do with being legit. Nothing is worse than when all the par 3s are with in 10 yards of each other. Its a lot more fun when one is a pitching wedge (say 130), one is a mid iron (160), and another is long iron/hybrid (200) and whatever works for the last.  On the short ones you toughen up the hole with bunkers and a tougher green. Obviously your preferences may vary.

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

All the par 3s around here are pretty legit lengths. Only one executive course has a couple par 3s 150 or less. these are courses where the par 4s are all 300-350 and the par 5s are 475 at most.



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