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What would you shoot at Augusta....


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I have a friend who played it about a month ago.  From the member tees, they don't let you tee of from the Master's tees.

He's a 13 or so and shot a an 89, played solid considering the venue and being so amped up to play well there.  We estimated that from the Master's tees he would have been over a hundred easily.  He said the problem is in some cases you just need to be in the right parts of the greens if you want a chance at two putting.

He did par 12, the only hole that is somewhat similar in distance for the pros.  His playing partners all made 5's, tough hole.

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Unofficially, its rated 78.1 with a slope of 137. http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/golf-masters/2010-04/how-tough-augusta-knuth?currentPage=1 According to this, on average

I tend to agree. From what I see of ANGC it's all about the greens. Tee to green there's nothing brutally tough about it - wide fairways, minimal rough, bail-out areas. 13 & 15 for example, are gr

Our greens during club championships are rolled and cut every day, they get to around 11-12 on the Stimp. My course has hosted European Tour events, and is this October too. So it's not like I haven't played hard and fast greens before.

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Tee to green, Augusta is pretty forgiving.  Aside from Rae's Creek and associate ponds, water doesn't play a major factor. Fairways are wide, if long, so you shouldn't be hitting too many fairway bunkers. Reaching some of the par 4's in regulation would be very difficult because of their length.

The greens would be tough, but wouldn't you have a caddy along to give you the right reads? Assuming you warm up on the practice green, their speed alone shouldn't force a semi-decent putter into 4- and 5- putting. After all, they are pretty much flawless.

That said, I would be very disappointed if I couldn't shoot in the low 80's.  Get a few putts to drop, and the high 70's wouldn't be out of the question. But, I guess I'll never know...

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I would shoot myself in the head after losing so many balls! haha.

On a serious note, probably in the 100's. I shoot in the 90's and low 110's (102-105) on my regular courses.

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Played the Gary Player Course in Sun City, South Africa once and I felt like I was putting on glass there (the greens were all very true but I couldn't believe the pace)...think I'd average 3 puts a hole at Agusta...at least 2 balls lost on 12 (one over and the other into the water) and I'd probably miss every green with the Sunday Pin positions (have to go for the pin, playing to the middle means I'd average a 4 put per hole!)...think 120-130 is a distinct possiblity...but it would be a dream to play there and I don't think I'd stop smiling for a very, very long time after!

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it'd be fun as you know what to get the opportunity..thats for sure.

It could go either way for me..just depends on which way the wind is blowing in my game. :D

I wouldn't really care though but if I got to play from the set of tees suited for my length....then it would be a downright AWESOME experience.

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Originally Posted by iacas

I think a true scratch golfer would break 90 just about every time. By true scratch I mean a guy who plays a reasonable golf course with an accurate rating, and whose game "travels" fairly well.

You guys seem to dramatically over-estimate the difficulty of the greens. Oakmont greens aren't any easier. Donald Ross greens aren't much easier. We saw countless people putt OFF the greens at Oakmont at the last U.S. Open there, but we rarely see that at Augusta.

A scratch golfer is four to five shots off a PGA Tour player. Even doubling - or tripling - that has the guy breaking 90 pretty consistently.

From what I understand it's not so much the greens as where you land your approach shots. Above the hole is dead and below of course much better. This is true for Oakmont or Oakland Hills as well.

I agree that a scratch golfer would easily break 100 at AGNC from the Masters tees. A scratch golfer is long and hits accurate approach shots.

By the way Erik, what differentiates a Tour Pro from a scratch golfer? Is there one part of the game that allows them to be 5-7 shots better?


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Quote:
Donald Ross greens aren't much easier.

I played a Donald Ross course in New Hampshire last summer.  It was 5700 yards.  It was the hardest course I've ever played.  It was in the mountains, and the greens were crazy.  The short game shots were insanely hard, nothing like my usual play at my Pete Dye-designed home course with pretty standard layout / features.  The Ross course was like a different game.  Hitting it 260-275 off the tee mattered not at all, whereas on my home course length was a huge advantage.  Nothing would hold the greens, and trying to land it short and run it up would get you killed by false fronts.  Some of the most beautiful - yet aggravating- golf I've ever played ("THE HOLE IS RIGHT THERE!  JUST HIT IT THERE AND MAKE IT STOP!!  ITS RUNNING BY OR COMING BACK TO YOU AGAIN!! ARGH!!).

I think those not used to it would really struggle at Augusta.  A long-hitting 5 hanciap shot 96 with us on that course in NH.  However, I think that same player would shave 10-12 strokes off simply by playing the course more than once.

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Originally Posted by MSchott

By the way Erik, what differentiates a Tour Pro from a scratch golfer? Is there one part of the game that allows them to be 5-7 shots better?


No. Every part of their game is better. Typically the full swing more so than putting, but every part is better.

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Originally Posted by iacas

No. Every part of their game is better. Typically the full swing more so than putting, but every part is better.


Thank you.

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Originally Posted by iacas

No. Every part of their game is better. Typically the full swing more so than putting, but every part is better.



Check out the June 2011 issue of Golf Digest called "How Low Can You Go".

Per the article:

Butch Harmon classifies these golfers into 2 categories.  Competitive Amateur Scratch Player and Club Player who is scratch based on non-competitive rounds.  He says:  "There is a huge difference between a club scratch and a good amateur who is scratch," Harmon says, "A good Amateur's handicap is based on traveling to different courses and competing. If you're not shooting four or five under every time you tee it up at your home course, where you know every little break, then you're no good".

That's just the difference in the two types of amateur players.  There would be an even greater difference if you're comparing Scratch Club Players to Touring Professionals.

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Originally Posted by iacas

I think a true scratch golfer would break 90 just about every time. By true scratch I mean a guy who plays a reasonable golf course with an accurate rating, and whose game "travels" fairly well.

You guys seem to dramatically over-estimate the difficulty of the greens. Oakmont greens aren't any easier. Donald Ross greens aren't much easier. We saw countless people putt OFF the greens at Oakmont at the last U.S. Open there, but we rarely see that at Augusta.

A scratch golfer is four to five shots off a PGA Tour player. Even doubling - or tripling - that has the guy breaking 90 pretty consistently.


In all fairness, most of these guys - and their caddies - have seen Augusta for years.  They don't see Oakmont every year.

Personally, I'd probably shoot 150... and enjoy every moment of it.

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Quote:
Donald Ross greens aren't much easier.

I played a Donald Ross course in New Hampshire last summer.  It was 5700 yards.  It was the hardest course I've ever played.  It was in the mountains, and the greens were crazy.  The short game shots were insanely hard, nothing like my usual play at my Pete Dye-designed home course with pretty standard layout / features.  The Ross course was like a different game.  Hitting it 260-275 off the tee mattered not at all, whereas on my home course length was a huge advantage.  Nothing would hold the greens, and trying to land it short and run it up would get you killed by false fronts.  Some of the most beautiful - yet aggravating- golf I've ever played ("THE HOLE IS RIGHT THERE!  JUST HIT IT THERE AND MAKE IT STOP!!).

I think those not used to it would really struggle at Augusta.  A long-hitting 5 hanciap shot 96 with us on that course in NH.  However, I think that same player would shave 10-12 strokes off simply by playing the course more than once.

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I'll be curious to see how Randal Lewis does this year.  He qualified due to his US Mid-Am win.  The guy is in his mid 50's and not a particularly long hitter.

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What are the Vegas odds on him winning...?

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

I'll be curious to see how Randal Lewis does this year.  He qualified due to his US Mid-Am win.  The guy is in his mid 50's and not a particularly long hitter.



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Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

What are the Vegas odds on him winning...?

Let's see...

The Golf Channel ranks him 94th out of a field of 96, just behind Ben Crenshaw and Craig Stadler and just ahead of Sandy Lyle and Ian Woosnam...pretty sure Woosnam is a 5 handicap at this point.

Most of the golf sites only have odds for top contenders.  One site had him at 2500:1 to win.

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The purest lies and smoothest rolls of any course you've ever played?  Even on the 490-yd par-4s, you could hit hybrid-hybrid to just in front of the green, hit a pitch or chip (from a sweet lie) below the hole, and have an uphill chance at par.  If you have a caddie telling you where to aim so that you don't get some ridiculous bounce off of the front of the green, then 85 or better is very attainable.

The wind hardly ever blows there, you can play away from the fairway bunkers, and there is no rough.  If I were invited to play Augusta National, I'd spend two weeks practicing 30-60 yard pitch shots from tight lies, 3-wood tee shots (my most consistent club off of the tee), and lag putting.  Every hole, I'd circle the spot where, if I hit it there, I'd probably make double-bogey--and then ensure that I play away from that spot.  With good pitching, and no doubles, I'd be setting my sights on 80.

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Note: This thread is 3291 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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