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Dave

Why don't pros play SGI irons?

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Seriously.  It might sound silly, but why don't pro's play SGI irons?

They can repeatedly strike their irons in a spot about the size of a nickel ... so consistency shouldn't be a problem.  They can have the lofts bent any way they want so 'juiced-up' irons isn't a problem (they could also have the offset pressed-out).

It was often said that one of Jack's (and Tiger's) big advantages was the ability to hit it high; so high (within reason) seems to be good.

And for the rare instance when they make a bad swing, an SGI iron would minimize the penalty.

So with millions on the line, why don't pro's use SGI irons?

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Would you drive a 4WD which you hated the look of and didn't enjoy driving because once every couple of years you wanted to drive over a curb or a branch on the road?

Pros don't use SGI irons becuase they don't need or want them.

The feel of a normal club hit in the centre is different from that of an SGI club hit in or near the centre.

And hitting it high is an advantage on some courses. Most players are looking for a lower ball flight.

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No distance control.

No ability to hit a low shot.

Large head is bad for trouble lies.

Offset causes massive hooks and requires a weak slicer's swing to work.

Offset causes more shanks.

Offset throws off timing and feel.

Pressing the offset out of a cast club, or even a forged one, doesn't work as well as you think it does. It will either snap clean off, fatigue the metal, or mess up the hosel/shaft. Some SGI irons have around half an inch of offset, and set up closed to boot.

Sweet spot is in a different spot (out in center/toe) than the heel side of center typical of blades.

Only one way to set up; square and flat due to wide soles and offset.

Hits the ball too high, loses distance and control.

Suck balls in the wind.

Many SGI irons have "hot spots" and cause random +10 yards, not good for distance control.

No feedback.

Look off at address for better players.

Looks bad, feels bad, makes you feel bad, uncool, not as shiny as blades.

No amount of forgiveness and MOI helps a real miss.

Pros don't prioritize forgiveness and therefore don't need to compromise playability.

They are paid hundreds of millions of dollars as a whole to play the gear they do.

Bubba uses G20, which are SGI in my book. But most pros choose the irons they do for a reason.

SGI irons are designed for hacks. Better player's irons are designed to fit the needs of better players.

Should you screw with literally every spec of a club designed for hacks, or just design a club that works for better players? The players often help design the damn things and can get literally whatever they want, even like Rickie Fowler getting Cobra to custom design copies of his old Titleist blades that aren't sold to the public. If they wanted more forgiveness they would design the clubs with different specs, but they don't. Same reason hackers don't buy blades and get them bent strong, offset added, etc.

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Quote:

Bubba uses G20, which are SGI in my book. But most pros choose the irons they do for a reason.

Bubba's actually using the discontinued S59's

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Originally Posted by namkrats

Bubba's actually using the discontinued S59's



Fair enough... I don't really care for Bubba but I thought I read he used G series irons somewhere. Other players do use fairly shovelicious irons, like Rocco Mediate who used X22s and Villegas who uses Rocketballz, though both are probably not stock and quite frankly both of them need the help. 153 and 154 in ballstriking in 2011...

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Quote:

Fair enough... I don't really care for Bubba but I thought I read he used G series irons somewhere. Other players do use fairly shovelicious irons, like Rocco Mediate who used X22s and Villegas who uses Rocketballz, though both are probably not stock and quite frankly both of them need the help. 153 and 154 in ballstriking in 2011...

The pro I go to has a couple of friends that are on the Taylormade tour staff.    I can assure you the RBZ's that Villegas is using are very far removed from the "off the rack" variants.

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Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Other players do use fairly shovelicious irons, like Rocco Mediate who used X22s and Villegas who uses Rocketballz, though both are probably not stock and quite frankly both of them need the help. 153 and 154 in ballstriking in 2011...



LOL.

You know Callaway pays Rocco a ton extra to "play" their game improvement stuff.  I imagine Villegas is getting the same sort of deal.  Neither of them need the extra foregiveness.  They are both world class players.

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Because of this...

Originally Posted by Dave

They can repeatedly strike their irons in a spot about the size of a nickel ...



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The 'high' that Jack and Tiger use(d) to their advantage was with their long irons.

High, soft landing shots with a three iron = good.

High, soft landing shots with a nine iron = getting up and down from a bunker in front of the green.

Also, don't let what's embroidered on a guy's hat fool you.

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There are a handful of guys that play G15/G20 irons (Shane Bertsch, Billy Mayfair, Chris Couch) but obviously the majority of guys are playing something like Titleist 710 Cb/TaylorMade MC models.  Couple reasons imo, it's what they grew up with and what they're used to, ability to hit it multiple trajectories, spin control.  Even today's "tour" club is much easier to launch higher than the MacGregors Jack hit because the center of gravity is lower, shorter hosels and some perimeter weighting

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Three reasons. 1. Workability, high, low, left, right is harder with SGI, especially with modern balls. Partially this is a function of blade size not just design. CB vs. MB. 2. Pros irons are often created from scratch and only appear to resemble models sold to the public. Even those playing manufacturer models will frequently have. different offset, grind, bounce, than models sold to the public. It is a myth that your irons are identical to the ones most pros play. 3. Many pros do carry one or two SGI clubs, most commonly long irons, especially if they are low ball hitters or below tour average distance.

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Three reasons. 1. Workability, high, low, left, right is harder with SGI, especially with modern balls. Partially this is a function of blade size not just design. CB vs. MB. [/QUOTE] Why would left-to-right or right-to-left be harder with forgiving irons? Isn't shape just a function of swing shape and head at impact? [quote name="allin" url="/t/57137/why-dont-pros-play-sgi-irons#post_700573"]3. Many pros do carry one or two SGI clubs, most commonly long irons, especially if they are low ball hitters or below tour average distance.

I remember Brian Gay at one point had MX-200 long irons, MP-60 mid-irons, and MP-32 short irons. I might have the specifics wrong, but that example stands out to support your point.

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Originally Posted by Shindig

Why would left-to-right or right-to-left be harder with forgiving irons? Isn't shape just a function of swing shape and head at impact?



I would agree with you.  An SGI, or more forgiving iron, is just that...... it will be more forgiving to off center hits.  And the pro's certainly don't have an issue with off center hits.  Path and face angle, as long as it's hit in the center of the face, will dictate ball flight.

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Originally Posted by glock35ipsc

I would agree with you.  An SGI, or more forgiving iron, is just that...... it will be more forgiving to off center hits.  And the pro's certainly don't have an issue with off center hits.  Path and face angle, as long as it's hit in the center of the face, will dictate ball flight.


Someone that knows more about physics can probably explain it better, but I think it has something to do with the center of gravity no only being low, but also being deep behind the clubface.  It's kind of like a wooden driver versus a modern driver.  The closer the center of gravity is to the face, the easier it is to curve the ball.

Of course, I could be wrong... but that's how it was explained to me.

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On occasion pros do play SGI irons. Ernie Els won tournaments circa 2000 playing Big Bertha irons, and Rocco Mediate has won playing Callaway X22s. Note: That's the heads they were using - I doubt they were using the stock high-launch BB shafts, or the Uniflex X22 shafts.

As allin says, lots of pros carry one or two SGI clubs. This dates back to the 1980s when dozens of tour pros started replacing their standard 2 and 3 irons with Ping Eye2.

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Originally Posted by WUTiger

On occasion pros do play SGI irons. Ernie Els won tournaments circa 2000 playing Big Bertha irons, and Rocco Mediate has won playing Callaway X22s. Note: That's the heads they were using - I doubt they were using the stock high-launch BB shafts, or the Uniflex X22 shafts.


Ernie was with TaylorMade until 2003, then he went to Titleist.  Ernie did play forged cavity backs, early version of the 300 series but not Big Bertha irons.  Maybe you were thinking of someone else.  Monty won a ton of tournaments and Order of Merits using Callaway X-12's and X-14's.

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Originally Posted by mvmac

Ernie was with TaylorMade until 2003, then he went to Titleist. ...

mv,

The Big Bertha notes came from a presentation by a well-respected golf industry source. I'll have to do some backtracking, maybe the source got the names scrambled. Thanks for heads up.

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Note: This thread is 743 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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