Tiger Woods then and now

[bigoak]

I am not a keeper or student of statistics but after the gym work and the increase of muscle mass, does Tiger Woods hit it that much farther?

Played with some kids yesterday and bitched about being old and couldn't hit as far as once upon a time.  Apparently Tiger Woods trained with someone who was knowledgable of the physiology of golf but I see some less buffed players on tour who seem to be competative.

I am not suggesting getting fat to play better golf, but I don't understand what was wrong with his swing in the first place.  It seemed to be working well enough to win millions.  Why would you want to change that?

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by bigoak

I am not a keeper or student of statistics but after the gym work and the increase of muscle mass, does Tiger Woods hit it that much farther?

Played with some kids yesterday and bitched about being old and couldn't hit as far as once upon a time.  Apparently Tiger Woods trained with someone who was knowledgable of the physiology of golf but I see some less buffed players on tour who seem to be competative.

I am not suggesting getting fat to play better golf, but I don't understand what was wrong with his swing in the first place.  It seemed to be working well enough to win millions.  Why would you want to change that?

There are two questions here. There was nothing wrong with Tiger's Haney swing except the strain it put on his damaged knee. He needed a new swing that did not put so much pressure on that joint. I don't think his fitness routine is solely about distance. It's about overall fitness. If it is about distance it's because in the last 15 years there are a lot more athletic players on the tour who can rip the ball like Bubba Watson, Rory McIlroy and Dustin Johnson.

[mtsalmela80]

Do we really think strength has anything to do with good distance? I can probably curl more than Rory can bench but he can still reach a 600 yard par 5 in two.

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

Do we really think strength has anything to do with good distance? I can probably curl more than Rory can bench but he can still reach a 600 yard par 5 in two.

Look at the typical small player in the LPGA. Raw strength contributes less to distance than most other factors -- in particular from good lies. I'm a fat old guy and I'm stronger than most of the women on the LPGA Tour, yet most hit the ball farther than I do. And they do it straighter. And shot after shot. Need to move a couch? Even as a fat old guy, I'm a better bet than most LPGA Tour pros. Need a 275 drive down the middle? Choose the 110 pound lady.

HOWEVER, strength does allow players to hit better shots from awkward lies, out of thick rough, and after many hours of mental pressure and hot sunshine. Being strong and fit matters even if it is not the major factor in raw distance.

[colin007]

i'd like to disagree with 2 things here:

Originally Posted by MSchott

There was nothing wrong with Tiger's Haney swing except the strain it put on his damaged knee.

no explanation really needed here...

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

Need a 275 drive down the middle? Choose the 110 pound lady.

most ladies on tour cannot hit it that far.  theres really only a small handful that can.  the rest, try 240.

[bigoak]

I am not a keeper or student of statistics but after the gym work and the increase of muscle mass, does Tiger Woods hit it that much farther?

what I am asking is "after the bodybuilding does Tiger Woods hit it further?"

[Mr3Wiggle]

Statistically speaking:

Year	Tour Avg.	Tiger Avg	Difference
1997	267.7	294.8	27.1
2000	273.2	298.0	24.8
2005	288.9	316.1	27.2
2012	286.6	294.7	8.1

Basically I took 1997 (his 1st full season on tour), 2000 (his most dominant season), 2005 (his season with longest driving distance avg), and 2012 (current season).  There are obviously a hundred factors that could explain a this but from the numbers it doesn't appear that Tiger has gotten particularly longer in relation to his peers or even to himself.  Considering the change in balls, shafts and physical fitness on tour, not much appears to have changed.  Perhaps Tiger is hitting an abnormally high number of fairway woods and 2 irons off the tee in comparison to when he came on tour in 1997.

[brocks]

what I am asking is "after the bodybuilding does Tiger Woods hit it further?"

Tiger recently (IIRC, at the Masters press conference) claimed that he was hitting it farther now than in 2000, but if he is, I think it's because of the ball and clubs, and not because he's stronger. He is definitely shorter in relation to his peers than he used to be. However, as someone else mentioned, his strength shows up when he has to hit a shot out of deep rough. In Haney's book, he said he felt that Tiger was too concerned about length, to the point that he sacrificed some control of his drives to achieve it. He said that even with his approach shots, Tiger favors a swing that results in longer shots, but less distance control. Hopefully, Foley is talking him out of that. Incidentally, the official PGA driving distance stats can be misleading. Unless they've changed it, they only use two holes per round, selected on the basis of probable use of driver and opposite directions for wind and elevation, but once the selection is made, it's locked in. If the wind changes direction so the player is hitting into a gale on both holes, tough. If the player decides to play it safe and hit a 3-iron rather than a driver, tough. That's why the official distance of guys who regularly hit their drivers over 300 yards is typically in the 290's, except for guys like Bubba who hit their driver every chance they get. The Shotlink stats do record every drive, but not which club was used, and I don't think they're freely available to the public anyway.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by brocks

Tiger recently (IIRC, at the Masters press conference) claimed that he was hitting it farther now than in 2000, but if he is, I think it's because of the ball and clubs, and not because he's stronger. He is definitely shorter in relation to his peers than he used to be. However, as someone else mentioned, his strength shows up when he has to hit a shot out of deep rough.

In Haney's book, he said he felt that Tiger was too concerned about length, to the point that he sacrificed some control of his drives to achieve it. He said that even with his approach shots, Tiger favors a swing that results in longer shots, but less distance control. Hopefully, Foley is talking him out of that.

Incidentally, the official PGA driving distance stats can be misleading. Unless they've changed it, they only use two holes per round, selected on the basis of probable use of driver and opposite directions for wind and elevation, but once the selection is made, it's locked in. If the wind changes direction so the player is hitting into a gale on both holes, tough. If the player decides to play it safe and hit a 3-iron rather than a driver, tough. That's why the official distance of guys who regularly hit their drivers over 300 yards is typically in the 290's, except for guys like Bubba who hit their driver every chance they get.

The Shotlink stats do record every drive, but not which club was used, and I don't think they're freely available to the public anyway.

Driving distance stats can be misleading.  But over the course of an entire season they give a pretty decent picture.

[brocks]

Driving distance stats can be misleading.  But over the course of an entire season they give a pretty decent picture.

I agree, especially when you use them to compare players, rather than to determine a particular player's capability. But if you really want to know how far a guy can hit it, there's a list of the 1000 longest drives of the year here: http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?159 It's not perfect either, because a 400+ yard drive is usually more due to a tailwind, a steep hill, or bouncing it down a cart path (if you look at it, you'll see that most of the longest drives are from the Hyundai, which features some very downhill fairways). But over an extended period, the biggest hitters are going to show up on the list more often.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by brocks

I agree, especially when you use them to compare players, rather than to determine a particular player's capability.

But if you really want to know how far a guy can hit it, there's a list of the 1000 longest drives of the year here:

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?159

It's not perfect either, because a 400+ yard drive is usually more due to a tailwind, a steep hill, or bouncing it down a cart path (if you look at it, you'll see that most of the longest drives are from the Hyundai, which features some very downhill fairways). But over an extended period, the biggest hitters are going to show up on the list more often.

Tiger also tends to play only the more high profile events.  The majors, Players, Memorial, WG events, etc.  Perhaps this has some effect on his distance.

[Zeph]

Tiger just out bombed most guys in the early 2000's. He got to around the 300 average earlier than everyone else. That doesn't mean he should be hitting it 320 today. I see nothing wrong with his driving distance. Judging by his driving accuracy when his game is on, his driving has improved a lot since early 2000's. He led average driving after Bay Hill IIRC.

[brocks]

Tiger also tends to play only the more high profile events.  The majors, Players, Memorial, WG events, etc.  Perhaps this has some effect on his distance.

I'm sure it does. The tougher events usually feature deeper rough and narrower fairways, which will make a guy like Tiger want to hit a 2-iron stinger, while Bubba is swinging for the fences.