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Originally Posted by Gresh24 View Post

I would agree those tees are too long for a higher handicapper.  The "white" tees at the courses I play are not that distance.

Interesting - this is apparently a pretty long course & maybe why I'm having trouble from the whites (greens are TINY as well).    If interested, I play the West Course - here's the scorecard: http://www.oobgolf.com/courses/scorecard.php?id=13644

Yeeesh! 1200 yard gap from the white tees (6700) to the senior green tees (5500) with nothing in-between! And it doesn't look like there's a reasonable combination to play either; some are very close and some are very far apart in distance. One of the first courses I played regularly was 6500 from the whites, but had 6200 yard red tees and large greens. I eventually just changed which course I was playing though.

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Originally Posted by inthehole

Interesting - this is apparently a pretty long course & maybe why I'm having trouble from the whites (greens are TINY as well).    If interested, I play the West Course - here's the scorecard:   http://www.oobgolf.com/courses/scorecard.php?id=13644


You should play the EAST course. I usually play the blues, and would find it VERY difficult on that West course with over 7000yds from the blues, WOW!

Or find a different golf club all together. Stick with something around 6200-6600 and you will have more fun!

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If you're hitting it 240 off the tee you should not be playing a course longer than 6500 tops. I know cuz that's how far I hit it - it gets pretty monotonous hitting 3w into par 4s. Move up.

But that answer the question you posed (tho it's been covered pretty well already), figure out what approach club gives you the shot at the lowest score on the hole. I know that sounds vague, and it was meant to be - only you know you game. For example, if you aren't consistent enough with the 3w, maybe hit 4i or 3h...whatever. Give up on 'hitting the green' and just set up the 3rd shot that gives you the best shot at par.

I do this often - if I'm say 220 in, I can get there with a well-struck 3w, but if there's trouble guarding the front such that the only way I'm getting there is flying all the trouble, I might hit 4i so I got a 40y pitch in over the trouble. If it's wide-open into the green, I'll let the 3w rip. I let my ego go a long time ago & just try to make a number.

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To maximize your scoring potential in this exact situation, in this exact round, on this hole, then yes you need to go the route of the layup.  However, if you want to look beyond the immediate score, and look towards your "future" scoring potential, you need to get comfortable with your 3 wood.  Seriously, if you really want to improve you need to learn how to hit the 3 wood, and in order to do that, you need to practice and play with it.  Not trying to knock your abilities but just thinking back on my past experiences, but at around the 20 cap level I would say that in general when laying up, one's ability to string together two well struck shots, even if they are both short irons is probably just slightly more favorable than you just being able to hit the 3 wood as far and straight as possible one time to advance the ball without knocking it into trouble. And the more you put the 3 wood into play, the more comfortable you'll feel with it, and the more you will be able to get the ball closer to the hole in a single shot.

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Yeah I'd change courses or move up a set of tees if you have to hit more than a 4 iron into par 4s consistently. I love being able to hit the long clubs a few times a round, but those par 4s over 440 yards are too long to play regularly. Not only are they 200 yards in after a normal drive, but 200 yards is a lot of distance for you to cover. A rule of thumb is that you multiply your 5 iron distance by 36 and that gives you an idea of the course length for 18 holes you should seek. The whites at a 6800 yard course means you need to average 190 yards with the 5 iron, or risk hitting clubs into the green that aren't meant for scoring.

The typical 450 yard par 4: you would hit driver and a fairway wood or hybrid. A typical pro or long hitter from that distance would hit driver, 8 iron. And even if they started from the same approach as you, from 200 yards, they'd usually hit no more than a 4 or 5 iron from there. It's not just your driving distance that makes it tough, but the distance you lack in the whole bag. And I'd say a 240 yard drive isn't short either. That's pretty respectable tbh. But a player who is long with his irons can get away with murder. You could take a drop 280 yards in the fairway and still be hitting a middle iron where he would be hitting a 7 or 8. And he'd have options if he misses on his drive where you need a pretty solid one to have a look at the green.

The moral of the story is, the course designer is a vicious troll who mucks with the yardages and makes the forward tees way too long. I'd say if you can break 90 on that course without being able to reach some of the par 4s, you're a legend. Look for a course with tees around 6200 yards, assuming you can hit your 5 iron around 170ish. They should allow you to hit plenty of GiRs and hopefully improve over time.

Are there a lot of bunkers near/on your ball? Is it a dogleg or a straight hole? Is there an area that looks big, flat, and safe about 30 yards in front of your landing area? Does it seem the course designer intended you not to hit your ball where you do? If you're hitting the proper landing area then it's possible it is meant to be a tough hole, which seems possible given the short par 5s and manageable par 3s. However the small greens you mention seem like the designer is a bit of a prick. Even touring pros would get pissed if they needed to hit a 5+ iron into the green and it was so small it was meant for wedges and short irons. This sounds like a par 5 given the small green and unusual length, maybe it was converted at some point? The unwritten rule with par 4s is that you should be able to reach in 2 unless you seriously mishit your shot, and if you are a short hitter the green should be designed to accept approaches from anything from short irons to woods. That allows any player to get a par or bogey if they play smart. Par 5s are supposed to take 3 shots and the greens usually can't be hit from long distance unless it's a great shot. The idea is the long hitter is hitting a long iron or wood while the guy who lays up is using a wedge, so the green can be sloped or protected without penalizing the short player. The long player faces the risk of plugging in a bunker or something, realistically still looking at a birdie or par at worst. The short player can still get birdies more easily than on a long approach, though.

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@OP You and I are probably in roughly the same place, skill-wise. My strategy (aside from choosing shorter tees, but even then this sort of long par-4 will pop up occasionally) would be to lay up short, but not very short. Unless there is a lot of trouble to avoid, being in the rough around or short of the green is usually better than being 60 yards back in the fairway. For me at least, there's less that can go wrong. Once I'm within 10 yards of the green, barring trouble, it's hard not to chip to within 20 feet. Hitting a 60 yard approach to within 20 feet is a less probable shot for me. A 3w off the deck is not a reliable shot and can go very, very wrong, so I usually avoid it. A long iron or a hybrid is more reliable and if a 3h puts me just short of the green, even if it's mis-hit and in the rough it's probably better than a 9i lay-up. My rule of thumb is that any tees that [i]make[/i] me hit a 3w off the deck are probably too long. If a good drive and 3H can't get me to within a 7-iron range on the par-5s, or a solid drive can't get me to within a 4h for all but one of the par-4s (have to allow one really long par-4), it's probably too long. Taking a 3w off the deck gets old fast, IMO. :-P
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Originally Posted by bmartin461

What are the total yards for the tee you are playing?

If your drives are 240 and you are left with 200-220 you must be playing from the back or second back tees.

Maybe try moving up a set of  tees for a while, get your long irons into play to make your GIR.

Your stats should tell you what to do.  If 75% of the time you go for it results in a double and if 75% of the time when you treat it like a par 5 you bogey, you have your answer.

Good luck!

That was my first thought because that's about how far I hit it and yeah I mean I'll be that far out but on most par 4s I'm within 200 yards.

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Wow. Donald Ross. 6700 yards. 114 slope. The slope seems right for a 20 handicap. The yardage seems long too me for that slope. The town is at 1700 feet but that only helps some. It's not like it is the high desert mountains.

Too bad there are not other tee options. But then again, it is Donald Ross. Who wants to mess with his design.

I play tees that are just under 6100 yards and the slope is 129. Our course has five sets of tees and even the 5570 tees have a slope of 123. I do not recall playing many courses near a 114 slope. And I thought slope was a good indication of relative difficulty for a higher handicap player and course rating was a better indicator for better players.

As for hitting an average of 240 off the tee and still having well over 200 left, if you are hit those big drives straight, you'll cut some yards off. But if you could nail a driver 240 dead straight, you won't be worried about 3-woods into the green because they'd be straight too. Again, my advise is to bang it close and trust your chipping to those little greens.

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How about your drive? Is there anything you can do to get it into the 250's regularly? Have you had your swing checked out? If you are wanting to keep playing the course, maybe some weight shifts or better transfer can get you some more yardage.

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Originally Posted by clubchamp

I've played the course and the West course is no joke in terms of length so I'd recommend moving to the east.

It's funny - the east & west courses couldn't be more different from a terrain perspective.    West is long & flat; East has the most elevation changes I've EVER seen this side of Wolf Creek in NV - the East course if far more difficult (for me) due to all the inevitable uneven lies and elevated greens.     They're both challenging, but in different ways...

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going from the description in the link..the west course is described as a Fazio design favored by the long ball hitter. The East course is described as a Mountain setting with tree lined fairways and rolling hills...I'd take my chances with the rolling hills and tree lined fairways if I were a shorter hitter.

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For your distance off the tee, you really should be looking at 6000-6200 yards. If you only hit 220 yards off the tee, to get to your mid irons, your looking at 370 par 4's as a good challenge. So i would try to play courses or a set of tees that gives you majority of the par 4's at under 380's.. You might get an occassionaly 400+, but you are definetly playing a really tough distance for your distance..

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LAtely I've been mixing between hitting a fairway wood or long iron or laying up to a comfortable wedge distance. I am certain it's almost a wash stroke wise but I feel way more comfortable hitting 7I, gap wedge from 250 out that I am hitting 3w/half wedge. I hit my 7i pure 90% of the time on a position shot and feel great with my 52* in my hands from 100-115 yards out. I am not consistent with my FW woods but like others have said, sometimes you have a clean look, no hazards, no wind etc. Thats the time to put a smooth swing on your wood.

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Originally Posted by wolfsburg2

LAtely I've been mixing between hitting a fairway wood or long iron or laying up to a comfortable wedge distance. I am certain it's almost a wash stroke wise but I feel way more comfortable hitting 7I, gap wedge from 250 out that I am hitting 3w/half wedge. I hit my 7i pure 90% of the time on a position shot and feel great with my 52* in my hands from 100-115 yards out. I am not consistent with my FW woods but like others have said, sometimes you have a clean look, no hazards, no wind etc. Thats the time to put a smooth swing on your wood.

If you're hitting your 7i pure 90% of the time as a 28 handicap, time to update your handicap?  :)

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