Casey Martin: Cart or Not?

[marcv68]

Let him use it the guy has suffered enough. he was embarrassed off the tour and now coaches golf. I say good for him, Not his fault he was born like that

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Other notable excerpts from the dissent:

Sorry. I had to comment just to say how much I loved these in particular:

I guess that is why those who follow professional golfing consider Jack Nicklaus the luckiest golfer of all time, only to be challenged of late by the phenomenal luck of Tiger Woods.

Complaints about this case are not “properly directed to Congress” [as was stated in the assenting judges opinion]. They are properly directed to this Court’s Kafkaesque determination that professional sports organizations, and the fields they rent for their exhibitions, are “places of public accommodation” to the competing athletes, and the athletes themselves “customers” of the organization that pays them; its Alice in Wonderland determination that there are such things as judicially determinable “essential” and “nonessential” rules of a made-up game; and its Animal Farm determination that fairness and the ADA mean that everyone gets to play by individualized rules which will assure that no one’s lack of ability (or at least no one’s lack of ability so pronounced that it amounts to a disability) will be a handicap.

I said before I loved the Scalia dissenting opinion. Still do. :)

Don't mind me. I'm off changing all of the thread topics and questions about Jack and Tiger to ask who is the LUCKIEST golfer of all time (LOAT sounds much better than GOAT, n'est-ce pas?). :D

[zipazoid]

LOAT?

Andy North.

Hey, it's US Open week.

[preisman]

He has to stay on the path, he still has to walk to his ball, and his body is taking its toll just as much if not more than anyone else out there. The only advantage is he will not collapse and die out there. He is not relaxing out there, he is still having trouble walking. But, if you want a guy to qualify and only last 4 holes and have to WD in agony, then go ahead, let him play.

[IguessNot]

The only advantage I see here is for his caddy! Or does he still have to carry his bag?

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

"Ridiculous" line of talk. What amount is enough for you to say that clearly he gets an advantage? 1 shot per round? 0.01 shots per round? It is clearly an advantage to be able to ride a cart instead of walk. Quantify it how you want but on the PGA Tour and in majors a fraction of a shot over four days can make a difference. Martin gets the advantage of not having to walk while everyone else in the field is at a relative disadvantage.

Condition of the competition. If you ever break 100 and enter a serious tournament where they make you walk good luck you will find out that you are more tired at the end than if you got to ride a cart the whole time.

Hey Phil, you're the one saying there is an advantage, not me.  If there is an advantage for the pros there is an advantage for every golfer that takes a cart.  And if so, the handicap system needs to reflect it.  And LOL at your childish attacks.

[Phil McGleno]

Childish says the guy with the avatar of a woman's rear? There is an advantage to not walking. Prove otehrwise. The side discussion about handicaps is so stupid it doesnt deserve discussion. If you seriously think youre playing a game anywhere close to that of what's played on the PGA Tour then I have some oceanfront property in Idaho to sell you. It's got nothing to do with this discussion but youve deluded yourself into thinking you've made some kind of great point. That's funny. [quote name="Mr3Wiggle" url="/t/58810/casey-martin-cart-or-not/198#post_724185"]Hey Phil, you're the one saying there is an advantage, not me.  If there is an advantage for the pros there is an advantage for every golfer that takes a cart.  And if so, the handicap system needs to reflect it.  And LOL at your childish attacks. [/quote]

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Childish says the guy with the avatar of a woman's rear? There is an advantage to not walking. Prove otehrwise. The side discussion about handicaps is so stupid it doesnt deserve discussion. If you seriously think youre playing a game anywhere close to that of what's played on the PGA Tour then I have some oceanfront property in Idaho to sell you. It's got nothing to do with this discussion but youve deluded yourself into thinking you've made some kind of great point. That's funny.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the man's avatar.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Childish says the guy with the avatar of a woman's rear? There is an advantage to not walking. Prove otehrwise. The side discussion about handicaps is so stupid it doesnt deserve discussion. If you seriously think youre playing a game anywhere close to that of what's played on the PGA Tour then I have some oceanfront property in Idaho to sell you. It's got nothing to do with this discussion but youve deluded yourself into thinking you've made some kind of great point. That's funny.

LOL Phil.  LOL.  Quantify this advantage and then you might have a leg to stand on.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

LOL Phil.  LOL.  Quantify this advantage and then you might have a leg to stand on.

Pun intended?

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Pun intended?

Indeed.

[Phil McGleno]

It's an advantage and I dont need to quantify it because even if it is 0.01 it is an advantage. You cant quantify it precisely because everyone is of different levels of fitness and Carl Pettersen is probably more tired after walking 18 holes than Camilo Villegas. On the PGA Tour or in the U.S. Open one person should not be GIVEN an advantage of any size. Everyone should be given the same opportunity to compete. Ben Hogan had to stop playing tournament golf because he couldn't take the walking. It is clearly an advnatage to ride in a cart over walking and anyone who disagrees is stupid. I dont have to quantify it (an impossible task) in order to prove the simple fact that "riding a cart is an advantage over walking." Any four-year-old kid could tell you that. Sorry I must be expecting too much from you. [quote name="Mr3Wiggle" url="/t/58810/casey-martin-cart-or-not/198#post_724215"]LOL Phil.  LOL.  Quantify this advantage and then you might have a leg to stand on. [/quote]

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

It's an advantage and I dont need to quantify it because even if it is 0.01 it is an advantage. You cant quantify it precisely because everyone is of different levels of fitness and Carl Pettersen is probably more tired after walking 18 holes than Camilo Villegas. On the PGA Tour or in the U.S. Open one person should not be GIVEN an advantage of any size. Everyone should be given the same opportunity to compete. Ben Hogan had to stop playing tournament golf because he couldn't take the walking. It is clearly an advnatage to ride in a cart over walking and anyone who disagrees is stupid. I dont have to quantify it (an impossible task) in order to prove the simple fact that "riding a cart is an advantage over walking." Any four-year-old kid could tell you that. Sorry I must be expecting too much from you.

That's ridiculous.  You say it's an advantage yet cannot quantify it.  Then in return you require that I prove a negative.  Keep it up.  This is amusing.

[Phil McGleno]

Is Tiger having the experience of winning 14 majors an advantage when it comes down to the back nine on Sunday against someone with 0? Yeah? Good. Quantify it. As my kids would say, "duh." [quote name="Mr3Wiggle" url="/t/58810/casey-martin-cart-or-not/198#post_724236"]That's ridiculous.  You say it's an advantage yet cannot quantify it.  Then in return you require that I prove a negative.  Keep it up.  This is amusing. [/quote]

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Is Tiger having the experience of winning 14 majors an advantage when it comes down to the back nine on Sunday against someone with 0? Yeah? Good. Quantify it.

Dumbass.

More brilliant insight from "Phil McGleno".  I'm starting to doubt your handicap.

[ghalfaire]

An interesting discussion for sure.  I actually read most of the posts and most are thoughtful and on point.  I still however believe a cart for Casey Martin is not an advantage nor have I read anything that leads me to believe that this accommodation will in any fundamental way change the game.  For Casey to get to the level of being qualified for the US Open is a significant achievement on his part and I would think the USGA would welcome him into the competition.  I doubt he'll make the cut and that will be because his leg won't hold up, cart or not.

I think the PGA isn't a private club but rather a business and as such is subject to the ADA laws in our Country.  Giving Casey a cart is no different than installing a ramp at a building so wheelchair bound individuals can work there (given that the only obstacle is they can't walk up stairs which isn't a requirement to be an accountant, engineer, lawyer, etc.).   You apparently can be a good enough golfer to qualify for the US Open without two good legs so I just don't see any problem here.  Walking is not an integral part of the game, ability to put a little white orb into a small hole in the ground in the least strokes possible using a funny shaped stick is, and Casey has shown he can do that well enough to qualify for "The US Open".  So IMO he deserves and earned his "right" to compete.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by preisman

He has to stay on the path, he still has to walk to his ball, and his body is taking its toll just as much if not more than anyone else out there. The only advantage is he will not collapse and die out there. He is not relaxing out there, he is still having trouble walking. But, if you want a guy to qualify and only last 4 holes and have to WD in agony, then go ahead, let him play.

Are you sure he has to keep his cart on the path?

That surprises me. As anyone who's played "cart path only" golf can attest, you can do quite a bit of walking under that restriction. Given that, and combined with the elevation changes at Olympic, I find it hard to believe that the difference between the amount of "cart path only" walking vs "no cart at all" can mean the difference between life and death/injury/WD/etc.that many here are claiming.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Are you sure he has to keep his cart on the path?

I'm almost positive that's not true. He gets to drive wherever. Most of the cart paths are where spectators will be, after all. They're not making him drive and park his cart among spectators. :P