Rules on lining up putts

[turtleback]

I've read both http://thesandtrap.com/t/58953/is-it-legal-to-use-your-putter-to-line-up-your-putt and http://golfrules.freeforums.org/line-for-putting-t1833.html as referenced in Dormie's post and I figured I'd throw in my tuppence worth. It would probably be more appropriate in  http://thesandtrap.com/t/58953/is-it-legal-to-use-your-putter-to-line-up-your-putt but I didn't want to bump a nearly year old thread.

Anyway, the point that strikes me about the language of 8.2b is "... may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting,"

There seems to have been a lot of discussion about where the 'line for putting' is in relation to the 'line of putt' as discussed in 16.1 but the point I haven't seen made anywhere is that the language 'line for putting' seems to me clearly intended to indicate a point at which the ball would be aimed.

Thus, any point on the green in a direction opposite from that which the ball will be traveling cannot possibly be used to 'point out a line for putting'.

Can't you use a point behind the ball as a basis for your aiming line?  It might not be the most natural way to do it, but a point behind your ball and your ball are 2 points that define a line and it would be possible to think about your aiming line this way., wouldn't it?

[Rulesman]

Can't you use a point behind the ball as a basis for your aiming line?

No. 8-2b says A mark may not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

[malincanada]

Can't you use a point behind the ball as a basis for your aiming line?  It might not be the most natural way to do it, but a point behind your ball and your ball are 2 points that define a line and it would be possible to think about your aiming line this way., wouldn't it?

I know what you mean and certainly you could align yourself using a natural mark on the ground behind the ball, or even, as some players do, by having a caddie stand directly behind you while you line up.

I guess what I am saying is that I am interpreting the act of 'pointing out a line for putting' as saying 'Aim here' and so touching any point behind the ball can't be taken as saying where to aim.

[malincanada]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Can't you use a point behind the ball as a basis for your aiming line?  It might not be the most natural way to do it, but a point behind your ball and your ball are 2 points that define a line and it would be possible to think about your aiming line this way., wouldn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rulesman

No. 8-2b says A mark may not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

To be fair turtleback didn't say anything about 'placing' a mark. I took him to mean that if there was, for example, a spike mark or a discoloured spot on the surface behind the ball that matched up with the line you wanted to take then that could be used to point out the line of the putt.

The question would then be are you allowed to touch that mark on the ground as a way of 'pointing out a line for putting'.

My contention is that 'pointing out a line for putting' and 'aligning' are subtly different.

It's a strangely worded rule and my frustration with it has been compounded by this page:

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-08/#d8-2b-1

At the bottom it says "Other Decisions related to Rule 8-2b : See "Indicating Line for Putting" and "Line of Putt" in the Index." but I can't for the life of me find the Index on the website. Am I being very dumb? Or is it referring just to the Index of the printed material and they've copied it verbatim to the website but not included an Index?!

[malincanada]

The question would then be are you allowed to touch that mark on the ground as a way of 'pointing out a line for putting'.

This should be:

"The question would then be would touching that mark on the ground constitute 'pointing out a line for putting'."

[Rulesman]

The question would then be are you allowed to touch that mark on the ground as a way of 'pointing out a line for putting'.

8-2b also says: ....... but in so doing (ie pointing out a line) the putting green must not be touched

[Rulesman]

At the bottom it says "Other Decisions related to Rule 8-2b: See "Indicating Line for Putting" and "Line of Putt" in the Index." but I can't for the life of me find the Index on the website. Am I being very dumb? Or is it referring just to the Index of the printed material and they've copied it verbatim to the website but not included an Index?!

The latter.

[turtleback]

No. 8-2b says A mark may not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

I expressed my self poorly and, as a result, you misunderstood my intention,  I meant it was possible, not that it was allowable.  Your citation makes explicit what I was trying to say was implicit in the rules.

I was specifically addressing the statement " Thus, any point on the green in a direction opposite from that which the ball will be traveling cannot possibly be used to 'point out a line for putting'." to show that you could use a point behind your ball to establish an aiming point, and that therefore touching such a point would be illegal.

[Fourputt]

I don't understand just what the argument is about.  The rules are quite specific.  The line of putt may not be touched, with three exceptions as stated below (this is the line that the player intends for the ball roll on, plus a reasonable distance on either side of the line), and the green may not be touched when indicating the line or for alignment.  This seems quite straightforward to me.  To be safe, just don't touch the putting green unless you are repairing a pitch mark, removing a loose impediment, or marking, lifting, and replacing your ball.

There is no other reason to touch the green, so don't do it and you have nothing to worry about.

[thesandtrapbrah]

Isn't this the best way to putt? You know exactly where you want the putter pointed as your looking directly from the putters point of view rather than above it

[turtleback]

Isn't this the best way to putt? You know exactly where you want the putter pointed as your looking directly from the putters point of view rather than above it

Welcome to the forum.

Empirically I would have to say no to your question.  It is just not plausible that the vast majority of the best players in the world putt in a way that is not the best way to putt.  IOW, if facing the hole when you putt was the best way, that is how they would be doing it on tour.

[iacas]

Empirically I would have to say no to your question.  It is just not plausible that the vast majority of the best players in the world putt in a way that is not the best way to putt.  IOW, if facing the hole when you putt was the best way, that is how they would be doing it on tour.

Though you may be right, and I would say probably are, golf is such an old world type sport with traditions, that unless a player had near-IMMEDIATE improvement with the side-saddle method, he'd never switch to it because there's too much momentum built in for the existing method. If side saddle putting is better and you can reach proficiency faster, that proficiency is still probably around a few hundred hours, and the player has already invested quite a bit of time putting "traditionally" to really want to go back and start over from step 3 (not step 1 because they obviously understand some of the things they have in common).

Side saddle might be a better way. It's how we do almost everything else. But there's too much momentum AND golf is too traditional to really see someone do this. It would take, say, a junior academy in Korea or something to completely buy in, teach almost all of their juniors to putt that way, and turn out a few PGA Tour players who putted that way, and have success (at least at putting), and sway a few others to invest the time in the off-season or something.

[Rick M]

The move is legal.  The new rules of golf (2019)  spell out an interpretation that covers the exact sample you describe.

However, this prohibition does not prevent a player from setting his or her
clubhead behind the ball, such as when a player stands behind the ball and
places the clubhead perpendicular to the line of play and then walks around
from behind the ball to take his or her stance.

I was so happy to read this because I am one of those guys.

[iacas]

@Rick M, the topic is from 2012. 🙂