Touching the line-o-putt at the cup

[joekelly]

On the par 3, 3 guys on the green and i'm blasting out of the sand, then raking. I don't see A putting but he gets close and finishes out. B putts, then marks. I'm next and get close, then suddenly see that the lip of the cup is cruddy even with a hunk of sod, or tuft of grass, on the lip. D is far but i mention that i will finish and found myself with a question of 'fix the lip  or not'. Re the rules, I thought 1. cannot improve line of play and 2. cannot touch line of putt except certain conditions. This was no pitch mark.  I did nothing and took the putt, missed. D however, walked up and 'fixed' the lip by patting it down with his fingers/hand. He did not seem troubled yet he was a 'rules stickler'. Was he correct?  Oh, let me add that A, after D putted out , said the he, A, caused the problem when he, A, removed his own ball. i never saw anything A did  but maybe D did. I did mention to D that he may have made a rules violation, but he sneered.

Edit comment. I also considered that a player is entitled to the lie and line as originally found. So if A did the dirty deed, then D was OK, IMO.  And i too would have been able to fix the lip, had A informed me.  Not a good situation as dependent on A for advice and he should have fixed the problem he created.

[Rulesman]

16-1a/6

Damaged Hole; Procedure for Player

Q. Prior to putting, a player discovers that the hole has been damaged. What is the proper procedure?

A. If the damage is not clearly identifiable as a ball mark, then:

(a) If the damage is such that the proper dimensions of the hole have not been changed materially, the player should continue play without repairing the hole. If he touches the hole in such circumstances, a breach of Rule 16-1a occurs.

(b) If the proper dimensions of the hole have been changed materially, the player should request the Committee to have the hole repaired. If a member of the Committee is not readily available, the player may repair the damage, without penalty.

If a player repairs a materially damaged hole when a member of the Committee is readily available, he incurs a penalty for a breach of Rule 16-1a . (Revised)

1-2/3.5

Player Repairs Hole After Holing Out But Before Opponent, Fellow-Competitor or Partner Holes Out

Q. After holing out, a player observes that the edge of the hole is ragged. He pats the ragged edge with his hand and smoothes it. Does the player incur a penalty under Rule 1-2 if his opponent, fellow-competitor or partner has not holed out?

A. If the player smoothed the edge of the hole solely for the purpose of caring for the course, he was not in breach of Rule 1-2 . However, if the smoothing of the ragged edge was in any way intended to influence the movement of his opponent's, fellow-competitor's or partner's ball, or alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of the hole, he was in breach of Rule 1-2 . It is recommended that a player should only smooth the ragged edge of a hole after all players in the group or match have completed play of the hole.

As the player had holed out, he is not subject to penalty under Rule 16-1a or Rule 13-2 .

In a four-ball competition, if the player's partner had not completed play of the hole, the partner incurs the penalty for a breach of Rule 16-1a - see Definition of "Partner." (Revised)

[Ignorant]

D should have been penalized 2 PS for a breach of R16-1 for touching his line of putt. None of the exceptions in Rule 16-1a allow that action you described.

Afa your 'desire' to fix the hole before D's putt there is a Decision dealing with this issue, pls. read http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-01/#1-2/0.7 . In short: you could have been penalized for fixing the hole.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by Ignorant

D should have been penalized 2 PS for a breach of R16-1 for touching his line of putt. None of the exceptions in Rule 16-1a allow that action you described.

Afa your 'desire' to fix the hole before D's putt there is a Decision dealing with this issue, pls. read http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-01/#1-2/0.7. In short: you could have been penalized for fixing the hole.

I have to research this.  Agree with D 1-2/0.7 but see D1-2/1.

[Dormie1360]

How about decision 16-1a/13?  Would seem to allow player D's action.

16-1a/13

Line of Putt Damaged Accidentally by Opponent, Fellow-Competitor or Their Caddies

Q. An opponent, fellow-competitor or one of their caddies accidentally steps on and damages the player's line of putt. What is the ruling?

A. There is no penalty. Rule 1-2 is not applicable as the physical conditions were not altered with the intent of affecting the playing of the hole.

In equity (Rule 1-4 ), the player may have the line of putt restored to its original condition. The player is entitled to the lie and line of putt he had when his ball came to rest. The line of putt may be restored by anyone.

If it is not possible to restore the line of putt, the player would be justified in requesting the Committee to grant relief. If the damage is severe enough, the Committee may declare the area to be ground under repair, in which case the competitor may take relief under Rule 25-1b(iii) . (Revised)

[rustyredcab]

A -- the guy who damaged the hole -- should be beaten and banned from the course. In particular because he did not repair his damage.

I played with a guy, a good putter, who was older and had the habit of getting his ball out of the hole by sticking his putter in the hole and yanking ball and putter head out. He did this very well and only damaged the hole once in a while. Yet, he did sometimes damage the hole. Drove me crazy.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

A -- the guy who damaged the hole -- should be beaten and banned from the course. In particular because he did not repair his damage.

I played with a guy, a good putter, who was older and had the habit of getting his ball out of the hole by sticking his putter in the hole and yanking ball and putter head out. He did this very well and only damaged the hole once in a while. Yet, he did sometimes damage the hole. Drove me crazy.

Gotta agree.  That's a bad habit and should not be allowed.  If you can't bend over, then get one of those suction cups to stick on the grip.  It may make you look a bit dorky, but it helps protect the course.

[Golfingdad]

Interesting ... I never even think twice about patting down a part of the hole thats goofed up while I am retrieving my ball.  It sounds like it might be OK to do this, might not.  Guess I should be more careful.

P.S.  To the OP, your playing partners have weird names.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by joekelly

Edit comment. I also considered that a player is entitled to the lie and line as originally found. So if A did the dirty deed, then D was OK, IMO.  And i too would have been able to fix the lip, had A informed me.  Not a good situation as dependent on A for advice and he should have fixed the problem he created.

I got another opinion on your scenario from someone much smarter than myself on the rules and they agree with the above.