Erik Hitting a Few Chips and Pitches

[Jakester23]

5 minutes ago, billchao said:

I have a Titleist Vokey SM5 60.10 with an M grind that I tend to use for most of my pitches, but I have a tendency to slide the club underneath the ball and come up short at times, especially out of greenside rough. Is that a technique issue or am I not properly accounting for the lie?

It could be technique. I've hit these shots with a 60.04 vokey before I got my 58°.  For me the rough doesn't change how I hit these shots. If the rough isn't deep it can actually be easier out of the rough. You could always post a video in your swing thread.

[billchao]

1 minute ago, Jakester23 said:

It could be technique. I've hit these shots with a 60.04 vokey before I got my 58°.  For me the rough doesn't change how I hit these shots. If the rough isn't deep it can actually be easier out of the rough. You could always post a video in your swing thread.

I think you're misunderstanding my question or I articulated it poorly. I'm saying if the ball sits up in the rough, I'll slide the club under it and pop it up more with less forward motion. Was wondering if that was just a simple club/shot selection error on my part or if I still need to work on my technique.

I have a tendency to get wristy in my pitches and add too much bounce. I'd be better off using a chip technique if the ball is sitting up in the rough because the contact would be cleaner.

[Jakester23]

5 minutes ago, billchao said:

I think you're misunderstanding my question or I articulated it poorly. I'm saying if the ball sits up in the rough, I'll slide the club under it and pop it up more with less forward motion. Was wondering if that was just a simple club/shot selection error on my part or if I still need to work on my technique.

I have a tendency to get wristy in my pitches and add too much bounce. I'd be better off using a chip technique if the ball is sitting up in the rough because the contact would be cleaner.

If it's sitting up a lot you could try leaning the handle forward a little and making the same pitching  motion.   It tends to come out lower with more release. I think it's more predictable than a chip.

[billchao]

12 minutes ago, Jakester23 said:

If it's sitting up a lot you could try leaning the handle forward a little and making the same pitching  motion.   It tends to come out lower with more release. I think it's more predictable than a chip.

Yea I've been doing something lately that feels like a chip but probably is much closer to a pitch than it feels, just less wristy. 

I probably answered my own question, too. The Vokey is my only wedge with any kind of sole relief and I think I'm just used to the full sole more out of the rough.

[boogielicious]

8 hours ago, billchao said:

I think you're misunderstanding my question or I articulated it poorly. I'm saying if the ball sits up in the rough, I'll slide the club under it and pop it up more with less forward motion. Was wondering if that was just a simple club/shot selection error on my part or if I still need to work on my technique.

I have a tendency to get wristy in my pitches and add too much bounce. I'd be better off using a chip technique if the ball is sitting up in the rough because the contact would be cleaner.

What is happening is you are hitting the ball on the top part of the face. When it is sitting up in deep rough, and you still want to use the 60, you need to set up a little higher to prevent going under the fluffy lie. I will choke up a bit on the grip and set up like a sand shot. I hover the leading edge near the equator of the ball.

 

[billchao]

33 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

What is happening is you are hitting the ball on the top part of the face. When it is sitting up in deep rough, and you still want to use the 60, you need to set up a little higher to prevent going under the fluffy lie. I will choke up a bit on the grip and set up like a sand shot. I hover the leading edge near the equator of the ball.

 

That makes sense. I have to try that, thanks.

[metbid]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 8:48 PM, iacas said:

I was talking about the high pitches. I can hit a spinner, too. I usually don't opt for it because they're less predictable, but can hit it when I want.

When I say backspin, I mean they get the ball to check up and not roll out much, not actually back up.  They seem to have good control on distance that way.

[drmevo]

On April 9, 2016 at 10:24 PM, billchao said:

I have a Titleist Vokey SM5 60.10 with an M grind that I tend to use for most of my pitches, but I have a tendency to slide the club underneath the ball and come up short at times, especially out of greenside rough. Is that a technique issue or am I not properly accounting for the lie?

What works well for me is to actually keep more weight on my back foot in that situation (the opposite of a normal or tight lie). With this method you can still thump the ground behind the ball and not have to worry about judging how high to float the club.

[No Mulligans]

Thanks Eric,

I've had two problems with this technique that I need to figure out.

1. On hard pan dirt I will sometimes bounce behind the ball and hit it thin.  In this thread you talked about the low point being after the ball.  That's probably all I need to focus on in hard pan.

2. In thick kikuya grass rough like we have in these parts, sometimes the club doesn't slide by digs in and gets grabbed by this gnarly grass.  In this situation, I've taken to not using this type of pitch that you demonstrated but have gone with the thump down and hold the angle type of shot.  Not sure if that's the best approach.

[saevel25]

12 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

1. On hard pan dirt I will sometimes bounce behind the ball and hit it thin.  In this thread you talked about the low point being after the ball.  That's probably all I need to focus on in hard pan.

Bounce is your friend. Hardpan will not bother you. The lower bounce wedge on hardpan is a myth. If your club is deflecting off hardpan then your technique is wrong and your angle of attack isn't shallow enough. 

See video below, Erik hitting shots off astroturf type material. Lots of bounce, good pitching technique, no problem ;) 

 

[iacas]

4 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

Thanks Eric,

Who dat?

4 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

1. On hard pan dirt I will sometimes bounce behind the ball and hit it thin.  In this thread you talked about the low point being after the ball.  That's probably all I need to focus on in hard pan.

Make sure of two things:

• Right shoulder stays high in setup.
• Weight stays on the front foot and doesn't move around much.

4 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

2. In thick kikuya grass rough like we have in these parts, sometimes the club doesn't slide by digs in and gets grabbed by this gnarly grass.  In this situation, I've taken to not using this type of pitch that you demonstrated but have gone with the thump down and hold the angle type of shot.  Not sure if that's the best approach.

You can still play the shot, but two adjustments are good:

• Go with less loft but open the face up more. This will let the heel go through first so the club's loft and leading edge are less likely to get caught and forced down into the rough.
• Make a BIG swing. Lazy, still, but make sure it's big enough to generate more speed.

[alleztom]

Fantastic video - thank you very much. Just wondering if you could explain (or even better post a video at some stage) of what happens down the line particularly for the 4 'chips' before you start pitching. Does the club sweep around you or is it relatively straight back straight through? Thanks in advance.

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, alleztom said:

Fantastic video - thank you very much. Just wondering if you could explain (or even better post a video at some stage) of what happens down the line particularly for the 4 'chips' before you start pitching. Does the club sweep around you or is it relatively straight back straight through? Thanks in advance.

The club never travels in a straight line. It's always an arc, because we stand to the side of the ball. It's relatively on -plane, too, but perhaps a little bit more upright than a pitch. Less rotation, a clubface a bit more "turned down" than a pitch, though.

[alleztom]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

The club never travels in a straight line. It's always an arc, because we stand to the side of the ball. It's relatively on -plane, too, but perhaps a little bit more upright than a pitch. Less rotation, a clubface a bit more "turned down" than a pitch, though.

Awesome thanks! That all makes sense except the term 'turned down', my guess is more toe down heel up?

[pumaAttack]

The five fundamentals for a finesse wedge (chip/pitch under 30 yards) are:

#1 Set up: Feet 4 to 5 inches apart, back foot square to the target, lead foot flared out to the target.  Place the ball a few inches inside your back foot.  Use a weak grip with soft, dangling arms.  Shoulders level and chest and stance slightly open.

#2 Swing on plane with an open clubface:  Maintain the cup in your lead wrist through out the backswing and supination in your trail elbow to take the club back on plane.

#3 Use a Finesse Sequence:  Basically the opposite of a normal power move.  The clubface starts the downswing and uses gravity to reach the ball.  

#4 Let the clubhead release:  Use the bounce on the club!  Use gravity to get the clubhead to release down the swing path on the downswing. Through impact, swing the clubhead past your hands.  Use your chest to support the release of the clubface, instead of flipping at it.  The face should be open after impact and the shaft putting back into your belly.  The lead hand should still be cupped and the right arm in supination on the finish.

#5  Let the energy flow toward the target:  Your head should move towards the target during the backswing and even further towards the target during the release. 

 

These are the basics for the finesses wedge according to Jamie Sieckmann and they have revolutionized my wedge game.  I can hit high shots that check and roll out a few feet, low shots that run out and even high shots that stop on a dime. Before his book I never could get any spin around the greens, but his simple technique changed that in less than a week.

Seriously recommend it if you are struggling around the greens.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by pumaAttack

[No Mulligans]

@iacas, practicing both the chips and pitches after reviewing the video this morning in my back yard.  Had a good session and have it working well.  I've got 14 degrees of bounce on my lob wedge, I think I could use more.  Thanks for the video.

[MattM]

Golf is such an interesting a funny game!

So, I've been doing this pitch for about a year now and started hitting it too far (dropping it at the hole and watching it roll out too much).  

I could not for the life of me figure out what I was doing wrong because the ball was going up high but just had too much forward momentum.

Well, the other day I was reading either this thread or the other pitch thread and ran accross a small statement in one where someone says, "act like you are dealing cards with your right hand at the top of the backswing."  Well sure enough, as soon as I start doing that I find that I have a much easier time keeping the club face open and not rolling my right hand.  Today, I go out and play a round on fast firm greens and put 4 pitches close enough to the hole to save par.  Scrambling percentage was way higher than it's been all year.

Thank you guys so much for still talking about this and answering questions!  It's definately helpful!

[b101]

This remains one of my favourite videos on the site (I reckon I've watched it upwards of 10 times) and I keep coming back to it when I want to work on trajectory and manipulating the club. @iacas, I do have a couple more questions (sorry!):

1. How would you encourage someone to practice this? I've seen some videos by James Ridyard that look similar in approach that advocate taking one club and trying to hit the ball to different distances at different heights to 'skill up'. 
2. To what extent, given your research, does the average amateur need to vary pitch trajectories around the green? I feel that I do given the impact of wind and slopes on my course, but would you normally recommend playing around with it as much? I ask as I know the LSW mantra of sticking to your stock pattern.
3. On the back of that one, are there any of these shots that you consider as particularly high-risk?

I'm sure I have more questions still - I find this part of the game absolutely fascinating and just love hitting wedge shots around the greens. If you ever have the time or inclination, it'd be great to see a video of you hitting a few different shots into flags to get an idea of how those pitches react once they hit the ground.

Thanks, as always!