Brandel Chamblee (Again) Calls for Tiger to Ditch Sean Foley

[ClayHbg]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

The one thing I like about Brandel is that he doesn't shift like the wind. He is one of the few that started by saying that Tiger shouldn't tinker too much with the best swing in history and he has stuck by it when others jumped quickly after his first signs of recovery. He is not afraid to go against the grain and give his opinion regardless of the criticism that he will face. You have to admit, he has a very low flip-flop factor when it has come to this topic.

Tiger didn't "want" to change his swing.  His knee forced him to either make a change or go under the knife every 2 or 3 years.

[brocks]

Tiger didn't "want" to change his swing.  His knee forced him to either make a change or go under the knife every 2 or 3 years.

And I'm not sure how Chamblee missed it, but Tiger DID try going it alone, both after Butch and after Hank, and the results were spectacularly bad. For whatever reason, he seems to do much better when he has an external voice telling him what to work on, rather than fumbling around by himself.

[colin007]

Don't like BC. Hope he gets leprosy of the larynx...

[TourSpoon]

I would hardly call Tiger's swing under Haney "the best in history", he hit it much better under Harmon.

Agree, that is part of his criticism Mike. You accuse him of doing zero research but he agrees with you on this one, lol.

[TourSpoon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

The one thing I like about Brandel is that he doesn't shift like the wind. He is one of the few that started by saying that Tiger shouldn't tinker too much with the best swing in history and he has stuck by it when others jumped quickly after his first signs of recovery. He is not afraid to go against the grain and give his opinion regardless of the criticism that he will face. You have to admit, he has a very low flip-flop factor when it has come to this topic.

Tiger didn't "want" to change his swing.  His knee forced him to either make a change or go under the knife every 2 or 3 years.

Not disagreeing, but why did he leave Butch? Maybe he does pursue to better himself and he needed to change too.

[newtogolf]

According to Haney's book, he left Butch because Butch was an attention hound and Haney had Mark O'Meara (Tigers friend) drop some subtle hints to Tiger that maybe his swing could be better (with Haney) than what it was with Butch.

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

Not disagreeing, but why did he leave Butch? Maybe he does pursue to better himself and he needed to change too.

[RPMPIRE]

I also heard that he left Butch because Tiger wanted further changes to his swing but Butch refused to move any further. Maybe it was O'Meara's hints that thought Tiger could make his swing better.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

According to Haney's book, he left Butch because Butch was an attention hound and Haney had Mark O'Meara (Tigers friend) drop some subtle hints to Tiger that maybe his swing could be better (with Haney) than what it was with Butch.

[newtogolf]

In fairness to Haney, I believe Tiger felt he had learned all he could from Butch and was looking for a reason to leave.  Butch felt Tiger's success in tournaments and majors proved his swing was good as it was, and didn't feel it was necessary to mess with it.  Haney (through O'Meara) gave him the extra push by reinforcing some thoughts Tiger had about improving his swing.

Originally Posted by RPMPIRE

I also heard that he left Butch because Tiger wanted further changes to his swing but Butch refused to move any further. Maybe it was O'Meara's hints that thought Tiger could make his swing better.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Not to defend Mr. Chamblee, because he does come across as a know-it-all tool to me, but I hate these types of arguments against commentators.  Why does he have to have had a really good career as a player to be a good analyst?  The fact that he was a player at all gives him, I feel, the credentials because he knows what its like on tour, what its like to play in a major, etc., etc.

With that logic, one could argue that Sean Foley could not possibly be a good teacher to Tiger because he doesn't have to credentials (more than 14 majors) to teach Tiger something he doesn't already know.  Of course, then that would validate Chamblee's argument.  oops.

It is not just that Chamblee's career is a pale shadow of Tiger's.  It is also that Chamblee has NEVER been a swing coach to anyone we've heard of who has profited by it.  Commentators can do swing coaching - Peter Kostis does it.  But lots of pros are hearing what Chamblee says yet either none of them seem to be impressed enough to seek our Chamblee to work with them or Chamblee doesn't have the stones to put his theories and supposed expertise to the test.

[kevin.chan]

Knowledge is power and souce for improvement.

I think Tiger should learn and find something that work best for him from " Butch -> Hankey -> Foley".

The initail result might be not favourable but golf is a complex movement sports ...it takes some time to show the result.

[uttexas]

For whatever reason, he seems to do much better when he has an external voice telling him what to work on, rather than fumbling around by himself.

Absolutely. Supremely talented and self motivated, but seems to need the external approval/disapproval/guidance.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

Agree, that is part of his criticism Mike. You accuse him of doing zero research but he agrees with you on this one, lol.

I wouldn't call watching Tiger play research.  Brandel has openly admitted that he doesn't talk to coaches or players about what they're working, he feels he already knows just by watching.

[jshots]

I'm such a huge believer in this shit called science which seems sort of synonymous with modern instructor . Tiger needed to make a swing change... if he didn't he wouldn't have any chance to get more majors because his knee would never make it. In order to make a change, I think it's about a zillion times quicker to look at numbers from a machine that can see EXACTLY what your swing is doing rather than .... kinda sorta feeling it out and having an old coach who wears glasses tell you how to feel it out correctly... Sean Foley seems like he could and can do what Tiger needs/needed.

[bigoak]

I am not as smart as you guys.  I understand Brandel and Johnny for that matter.  To me they are interesting.  I am not a believer in all the sticks and lines if there is no heart.  Tiger has the heart to be a winner.  I am not a fan of his swing and antics but I love watching the vector and lines boys crumble when Tiger comes at em.  All the lines and swings don't hold up underpressure.  Heart of a winner does.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by bigoak

...  I am not a believer in all the sticks and lines if there is no heart ... but I love watching the vector and lines boys crumble ... All the lines and swings don't hold up ...

What does this mean?

[TomK82]

i dont care for brandel but its just my opinion. I like what foley is doing with tiger.

[Mr. Desmond]

The latest Chambliss is that Tiger hits irons well at the range with a tight divot but on the course he is too steep.

Of course, there is a simple fix to shallow out the swing - Foley knows it, Tiger knows it, we know it. It's doing it on the course with a new swing that is the issue.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

The latest Chambliss is that Tiger hits irons well at the range with a tight divot but on the course he is too steep.

Of course, there is a simple fix to shallow out the swing - Foley knows it, Tiger knows it, we know it. It's doing it on the course with a new swing that is the issue.

It really seems to be an issue with his wedges.  It's like he's turning his wedge into a nine and his gap into his pitching wedge on every short approach.  He seems to be more accurate with his six and seven irons right now.  His wedges always seem to carry twenty or thirty feet past the flag.  If he gets that sorted, he'll prove me wrong and beat Jack's record this time next year.