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Interesting dilemma on the course today.

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My father-in-Law and I played the course at Great Life- Golf and Fitness in Lebanon Missouri this morning.
Yesterday, they had a fundraiser tournament for Fort Lenard Wood, a military training facility in Waynesville, Missouri.
As part of their military theme, they replaced all of the pin flags with comparable sized American flags.

Here's the problem.
I was raised by a very proud Marine father who taught me that the American flag was never to touch the ground.
On a regular day, most of us pull the flag pin and throw it to the side while we are putting.

What do you do in that situation? We ended up taking turns holding the flag pin while the others putted out, but we saw many other foursomes who just threw the flagpin, American flag and all, down as if it was any other day golfing.

How does that make you feel, and how would yuo have handled it?

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It is a tough scenario.  I am in the Army myself so I am happy to see that you didn't let it touch the ground!   The sad thing that most people who do these don't realize is that there are very specific guidelines about what Old Glory is to be used for.  Most people don't know about the guide lines and/or don't care.  While I think a lot of people get caught up in the patriotic theme and mean well they don't realize this might bother some people.  It would have been very easy to create a patrotic theme for the flags without using the U.S. Flag.

In the end I think you did the right thing.  Don't let it touch the ground and just go on about your business.

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I would not throw a Canadian flag (or USA) on the ground either. But I would have just leaned it up against my bag off the green in most cases.

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Sounds like a a set-up job; I'm sure the guys you saw drop the flag on the ground will never be seen or heard from again.

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I remember thinking it was across the line (more a line related to stupidity than anything else) when Natalie Gulbis won the Evian Masters and posed sitting on top of the U.S. flag.

And I probably would have leaned the stick against a bag or something, because it seems like the right thing to do to me.

The code is nuts, and I have a hard time telling someone wearing a flag as clothing (i.e. printed on their t-shirt or something) that they're disrespecting the flag just because it's on an article of clothing that violates the code.

This one doesn't cross the line for me. I simply wouldn't have cared what other people were doing with the flagsticks (unless of course they were peeing on them or in some way treating them other than they would a normal flagstick on a golf course).

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Originally Posted by iacas

I remember thinking it was across the line (more a line related to stupidity than anything else) when Natalie Gulbis won the Evian Masters and posed sitting on top of the U.S. flag.

And I probably would have leaned the stick against a bag or something, because it seems like the right thing to do to me.

The code is nuts, and I have a hard time telling someone wearing a flag as clothing (i.e. printed on their t-shirt or something) that they're disrespecting the flag just because it's on an article of clothing that violates the code.

This one doesn't cross the line for me. I simply wouldn't have cared what other people were doing with the flagsticks (unless of course they were peeing on them or in some way treating them other than they would a normal flagstick on a golf course).

Petty much this. Do as you feel is right, but what others are doing is none of your business.

On the Gulbis topic, I dunno about the flag, but i've got a flag pole for her to pose on. Goddamn that girl is sexy. She's one of the three celebrity 'if I had the chance' outs that i've told my wife about. Her, Milla Johovich, and Veronica Gomez.

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Do you get upset when people put those little flags stapled to sticks on the ground?

And what if someone was golfing alone and using a cart? Do you prefer him to walk to the cart, have the flag lean against the cart.. then walk back to the green? You can't leave the pin in.. it'll cost you a stroke or two if you hit it.

I find no issue with this, but I'm not overly sensitive on this subject.

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i'm a vet who served honorably in support of OEF.  i would've asked someone in the pro shop to switch the flags.  i definitely wouldn't have addressed it with someone on the course who didn't have the situational awareness to keep the flag from touching the ground (wrong time, wrong place), unless of course, they were purposely defacing it.

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It can be dependent.

I often work for a production company putting on concerts/festivals and the like. We recently did a show for Sammy Kershaw (big country guy from the 90s). He had a backdrop that was rolled up to the top of the stage and held there by remote attenuators. At the end of the last song, the motors were triggered and the flag rolled down and covered the entire back of the stage. When they were rolling the flag up pre-show (on the ground), I posed the question, "Shouldn't you not be doing that on the ground?" The answer was "This flag was purchased and then officially registered with the government as a prop and not as an official "flag". Normally, you'd be correct, but we had the flag registered for this very thing."

So, it kind of put citizens in an awkward spot. While the government allowed, approved, and enabled them to do it, does it remove the respect one should show the flag in the first place? I mean, it was made as a flag, looked like a flag, woven like a flag, was about 20ft long, intimidatingly large to be that close to, and there was no neon flashing sign saying "THIS CAN TOUCH THE GROUND THE GOVERNMENT SAID IT WAS FINE YOU GUYS!".

I suppose the course could have taken the steps so that the flags were able to serve their patriotic symbolism while being able to not limit the general conduct of a hole flag. If they did or not, I certainly do not know.

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The course I play at usually puts flags on the tee box which is cool. Pretty dumb idea having them on the flag sticks though. To be perfectly honest I think I would have dropped the flag on the green.

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Originally Posted by Doodaddy

I often work for a production company putting on concerts/festivals and the like. We recently did a show for Sammy Kershaw (big country guy from the 90s). He had a backdrop that was rolled up to the top of the stage and held there by remote attenuators. At the end of the last song, the motors were triggered and the flag rolled down and covered the entire back of the stage. When they were rolling the flag up pre-show (on the ground), I posed the question, "Shouldn't you not be doing that on the ground?" The answer was "This flag was purchased and then officially registered with the government as a prop and not as an official "flag". Normally, you'd be correct, but we had the flag registered for this very thing."

So, it kind of put citizens in an awkward spot. While the government allowed, approved, and enabled them to do it, does it remove the respect one should show the flag in the first place? I mean, it was made as a flag, looked like a flag, woven like a flag, was about 20ft long, intimidatingly large to be that close to, and there was no neon flashing sign saying "THIS CAN TOUCH THE GROUND THE GOVERNMENT SAID IT WAS FINE YOU GUYS!".

Are you sure they weren't just yanking your chain?

I don't think flags are really regulated that much...?

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This issue just came up for me on July 4th - the course I had been playing switched out their regular flags for stars-and-strips U.S. flags.  I really didn't notice for around 4 holes until a single who was behind us caught up and began playing with me and my buddy  (a lot of liquored up guys on the course that holiday morning slowing down the pace of play).  I pulled the pin and was about to lay it down gently when it dawned on me that it had an American flag on it.  I said to the guy who joined us, "I guess I probably shouldn't be laying this on the ground, correct?" and he agreed, mentioning that he had left the flag in the earlier holes he played by himself.  So we just took turns holding it while someone else putted.  I think the guy in the pro shop should have reminded us of this when we checked in and paid.

The thing that bugs me about the flag rule is that some people become fanatical about the flag - "I fought and bled and my friends died for that flag!!!"  No, you didn't.  You fought for our country and our [mostly/hopefully] democratic principles, not a piece of cloth that serves as a symbol for our country.  A decade or so back when there was some controversy over flag descration, I read an article that said that every single country on earth that had a law criminalizing desecrating a flag, the symbol of the country/regime, was a dictatorship.

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Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodaddy

I often work for a production company putting on concerts/festivals and the like. We recently did a show for Sammy Kershaw (big country guy from the 90s). He had a backdrop that was rolled up to the top of the stage and held there by remote attenuators. At the end of the last song, the motors were triggered and the flag rolled down and covered the entire back of the stage. When they were rolling the flag up pre-show (on the ground), I posed the question, "Shouldn't you not be doing that on the ground?" The answer was "This flag was purchased and then officially registered with the government as a prop and not as an official "flag". Normally, you'd be correct, but we had the flag registered for this very thing."

So, it kind of put citizens in an awkward spot. While the government allowed, approved, and enabled them to do it, does it remove the respect one should show the flag in the first place? I mean, it was made as a flag, looked like a flag, woven like a flag, was about 20ft long, intimidatingly large to be that close to, and there was no neon flashing sign saying "THIS CAN TOUCH THE GROUND THE GOVERNMENT SAID IT WAS FINE YOU GUYS!".

Are you sure they weren't just yanking your chain?

I don't think flags are really regulated that much...?

You very well could be right. What he said made logical sense that it was classified as a banner/prop and didn't need to be treated as if it were an official flag. I just did some Googling and according to most literature I found some T shirts with the image of the flag printed on them are classified as flags and should be treated as such. They are seemingly pretty strict. While what his manager claimed made sense, I can't see that sort of exception being made.

Very interesting.

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