To Golfers Who Score in the 70s - What's Your Story?

[iacas]

Re: I don't know who Brian Barnes is....

Brian Barnes beat Jack Nicklaus two times in the same day during the 1975 Ryder Cup.   I think his advice has some merit, wouldn’t you say?

I've seen good players give terrible advice. I'm with @Golfingdad on that list. I teach a lot of good players, single digit players, and I'm not sure they regularly do even two of the five items on that list. They regularly do at least three of the five on my list, though… :)

The rest of your post, I don't disagree with, except perhaps putting for 20-30 minutes before you play. Why not figure out what your tendencies are on the range rather than the first three holes?

[Ferguson]

In my opinion, the range is good for muscle warm-up, not good for identifying my tendencies on any given day. As we all know the range does not always paint the same picture once you’ve started playing. How many times has one of your playing partners been heard saying, “where the hell did that shot come from? I was hitting them great on the range.”

As I said, I play with what I got that day. If the first iron fades a little, I play the next iron to fade a little. If the first drive draws a little, I’ll line up to hit a draw on the next tee. My point is that I like to take the thinking portion away on the first three holes and see what my body is doing. No sense messing around trying to hit a draw if your first three shots are fades.

The pro at my club likes my approach.  He's been teaching people for 25 years.

This is what works for me.

[Ferguson]

Re: BARNES

I must say that I am very surprised to hear the name Brian Barnes is foreign to most of you. True, he is foreign and played in another era, but many of the commonplace items you see in the game today can be traced back to Brian Barnes.

Brian was a ladies man, reviled only by the likes of Fred Couples, Gert Frobe and Graeme McDowell.

He set the standard on men’s fashion in his time.  So, the next time you slide on that wide, white belt, make sure you give thanks to the fashion plate that piloted that movement.

Brian was one of the first guys to negotiate a modern clubs contract, and in addition, have a set of cubs named after a shot that he invented.  The name of the shot was the “Surrey Slingshot.” The name of the clubs were the Petron Slingshot Irons. A set are on display at the World Golf Hall of Fame. According to golf purists, there is only one video of him hitting this shot in competition. It was in the 1979 Italian Open. Tragically, the end of the shot is cut off by some women’s bouffant hairdo that was blocking a clear view. It’s a shot that starts out really low and climbs like a British Airways Jet. It then falls from the sky to the right and hits the green with backspin. It’s amazing when considering his did it with a whippy shaft and balata ball. I seriously doubt a chop like Rick Fowler or DA Points could pull off a shot like this.

And lastly, Brian Barnes was a true diplomat for the game.  He never threw a club and took his losses like a real man. He played the game like it should be played.

[Phil McGleno]

[U] In my opinion, [/U]

There is no need to emphasize that. Everyone here shares their opinions. Some carry more weight than others-As they should. But nobody here shies away from SHARING their opinions either and that is okay too. [quote name="Ferguson" url="/t/60861/to-golfers-who-score-in-the-70s-whats-your-story/108#post_1109807"]the range is good for muscle warm-up[/quote] I can see the logic in that. I think most people CAN find their shot that day on the range but if you can not then okay. [quote name="Ferguson" url="/t/60861/to-golfers-who-score-in-the-70s-whats-your-story/108#post_1109807"]The pro at my club likes my approach.  He's been teaching people for 25 years. This is what works for me.  [/quote] How long you have been doing something does not really mean you are any good at it. Lydia Ko has not been playing golf anywhere near as long as some of my students who cannot break 90. I am only saying this now because it is a sense I have-I could be wrong and maybe I am-But like I said there are a lot of opinions out there and a lot of them can often be shown to be not as good as a different opinion. You get to have your opinions but for example "practice your putting 70% of your time" is bad advice yet you commonly hear it. [quote name="Ferguson" url="/t/60861/to-golfers-who-score-in-the-70s-whats-your-story/108#post_1109809"] It then falls from the sky to the right and hits the green with backspin.  It’s amazing when considering his did it with a whippy shaft and balata ball.   I seriously doubt a chop like Rick Fowler or DA Points could pull off a shot like this. [/quote] Comments like that are just stupid. Sorry, [U]just my opinion!!![/U]

[oregongolfguy]

I don't shoot in the 70's often, but I have a few times.  And I can tell you exactly what the difference was for me.  Every round that I have shot in the 70's I hit my driver above my average.  I was hitting further and more on line then normal leaving me shorter shorts in better position to attack the greens.  And I was hitting my short irons/wedges better then normal.  Both of these equaled more GIR which lead to a fairly easy day around the greens, a whole bunch of pars and lower scores....The greens that I missed, because I was playing away from trouble around the greens and actually hitting the ball pretty well the direction that I wanted were left in spots that I could get up and down more often then not.

Hence forth, my huge goal for this year is to shrink my shot zones through my bag.  Basically I feel that the better I can make my full swing misses the better I will score.  I will continue to work on short game and putting also...especially putting speed, but the majority of my time will be spent on improving my full swing to minimize my bad shots as much as I can.  Shrink my potential landing area's.

I also moved this year, so I will be playing a new course, so learning the course and figuring out how to properly plot my way around the course will be a priority also...

[Fourputt]

I haven't read this entire thread, but seems the common thread for most single digit hcp'rs is that they started playing golf while they were young (up through their 20's).

My question is this:  ANYBODY START PLAYING GOLF IN THEIR 40s LIKE ME, WHO'VE MADE IT TO SINGLE HCP ??

I need some inspiration - seems way too many good golfers started playing young, which is depressing me ...

I didn't get serious until I was in my late 30's - I was 37 or 38 when my back denied me the pleasure of whitewater kayaking, the sport which had dominated my summers for the previous 4 years.  I never was a single digit handicap (the lowest index I ever carried was 9.6, for just 2 weeks), but I shot a lot of rounds in the 70s.  I played a lot of golf, and there were never enough low rounds on my list to keep my handicap below 10, but I kept it between 10 and 12 for nearly 20 years.  At that level you should be able to break 80 occasionally.  I had a reasonable long game paired with a good short game, and I was usually a pretty good course manager.  I confess that most of those low rounds came on my home course, only a couple of times that I really played to that level away from home, but that was most often due to not playing to the right spots through lack of knowledge, not to misplaying my ball.  Most of those years were before the advent of GPS and lasers on the course.  Having that advanced knowledge could have helped on unfamiliar tracks.

I'm past 68 now and my last round in the 70's was in July of 2011.  I still feel that I can hit that mark now that I will be playing regularly again.  My 2½ year layoff didn't help my game.  Maybe I'm dreaming, but then most golfers are dreamers anyway.

[Ferguson]

Hello Phil,

Re: Fowler and Points not being able to execute the same shot as Barnes – we’ll agree to disagree.

I am pretty much sure neither of them have golf clubs named after a golf shot they invented. In fact, siting their insipid approach to the game I would go so far to say neither of them ever will. If you don’t like Brian Barnes, that’s okay.

Re: How long you have been doing something does not really mean you are any good at it.

So the wise choice for a risky surgery would be to choose the intern over the surgeon with 25 years of experience?

Ferg

[Fourputt]

Hello Phil,

Re: Fowler and Points not being able to execute the same shot as Barnes – we’ll agree to disagree.

I am pretty much sure neither of them have golf clubs named after a golf shot they invented. In fact, siting their insipid approach to the game I would go so far to say neither of them ever will. If you don’t like Brian Barnes, that’s okay.

Re: How long you have been doing something does not really mean you are any good at it.

So the wise choice for a risky surgery would be to choose the intern over the surgeon with 25 years of experience?

Ferg

Is Barnes a relative or something?  I'm from the right era, and I never heard of him either.  Lots of players have signature clubs manufactured in their names - I don't use any of them.  Gene Sarazen is credited with inventing the sand wedge, but I don't fall to my knees at the mention of his name.

I've played golf for 40 years, yet I've never been more than just okay at the game.  Experience can be both meaningful, and it can be meaningless.  Talent is a more important factor.  If you lack that native talent, then you can play for 100 years and never break 80.  I know guys like that.

[Phil McGleno]

Re: Fowler and Points not being able to execute the same shot as Barnes – we’ll agree to disagree.

I am pretty much sure neither of them have golf clubs named after a golf shot they invented. In fact, siting their insipid approach to the game I would go so far to say neither of them ever will. If you don’t like Brian Barnes, that’s okay.

Sheesh. I have been playing golf for a long long long time. Brian Barnes was not a better player than Rickie Fowler. You should look at a thread I started awhile ago - http://thesandtrap.com/t/74049/strength-and-depth-of-field-in-jacks-day-and-tigers-day I heard of Brian Barnes. Nothing special. Agree to disagree on how earth shatteringly good he was. [quote name="Ferguson" url="/t/60861/to-golfers-who-score-in-the-70s-whats-your-story/108#post_1109835"]

Re: [COLOR=181818]How long you have been doing something does not really mean you are any good at it.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=181818]So the wise choice for a risky surgery would be to choose the intern over the surgeon with 25 years of experience?[/COLOR]

[/quote] Did you read my example? I did not exaggerate it to your level. One of the guys in my area fortunately just retired from instruction. He has been teaching for about 40 years or more. He was lousy. Never learned a new thing at all. I would take a kid who has put energy and time and money into LEARNING how to teach golf over that guy every day of the week. I know a lot of golfers who have been playing golf for a long time and who still stink. Length of time doing something doesn't automatically make you better. Putting for 20-30 minutes is a good way to waste 15-25 minutes.

[rkim291968]

Putting for 20-30 minutes is a good way to waste 15-25 minutes.

What did you mean by this?   Putting practice in general is not an effective practice?

[Tical1969]

"1) How long did it take to break 70? If it took you 2 years, was that 2 years from the first time you picked up a golf club, or did you just play around for the first year and then take the second year seriously?"

It took me around 4 years the first time. Started late, at age 24 during one year (broke the 90), quit golf for around 4 years, started again for 4 years in a row (broke 80 within a year and a half, then 70 on the next year). Stop for 4 years again :o), then played again for 3-4 years in a very, narrow, up & down fairways forest golf course, very difficult course (top 10 golf ranking in france), and went back to 80s for more than a year. Then back in the 70s for 2-3 years. Stop golf again for over 5 years, then back on the game since 4 years (back in the 80s again for 2-3 years, and around 70 and now low 70 since one year).

"2) What methods did you follow? Did you pick and choose from different instructors, books, DVDs, or even just watching tips on the golf channel? Did you follow a single set method/book/DVD/instructor and follow it like it was your bible?"

Unfortunately or not, It was never really serious betwenn me & golf, i never took any lesson, only watched good players, VHS tapes and videos, and went often to the range. What was really important for scoring low "on my point of view" was being able to play in tough conditions (wind and rain, up hill, down hill, bad lies...) and try to stay alive at all cost (avoiding as much as possible double & triple... bogeys).

Try any stance, grip, swing thechnique... that feels natural to you, do not try to play or swing like the pros, it is important to stay natural as much as possible with a good rythm, if something works fine and you can redo it again & again, even when there is wind, or you are tired or under pressure... then keep it, and use it at its best potential.

3) What does it take to score in the 70s consistently (in your opinion of course)? A consistent swing? A good mental game? 70% mechanics 30% mental? Please share.

Most of the time, i see good players with a very nice swing...trying to hit way too hard with almost no strategy, and no management of the risk..., i started scoring low when i admited i was no professional and the 1/100 shot i wanted to try to avoid a bogey or make an eagle... was a mistake.

Many golfers only play courses for the great shots they can make (i did it for a long time :o), avoiding to mention, take in consideration (or remember) all the disasters that happen on some holes... that brought them to the 80s or more, always finding excuses, bad luck.... for those horrible shots...

Golf is a game of %, like M. Nicklaus used to say (i do strongly agree on this one), most of the time, he won not because he played very well, but only because he managed to make less mistakes tha the other players.

Enjoy the greatest game of all :o)

[Ferguson]

Assistant pro Benton Raycroft, a renowned golf instructor at the West Surrey Golf Club, suggests these as keys to getting to, and staying in the 70s:

Mental Game – concentrate on the shots and targets, not the swing

Risk vs Reward - Avoid unnecessary risks and lay up on the par-5 holes

Practice – use soft shot drills

Putting – Avoid the 3-jacks, learn to lag

Draw – learn to hit the low trap draw

Nutrition – eat right and keep energy levels up

Loose – stay loose and limber by stretching during your round

Stance – move the ball back in your stance

Degrees of Difference – maintain the same approach angle for all shots

PS. Golf should be fun. Don’t be angry like Phil.

Ferguson

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Putting for 20-30 minutes is a good way to waste 15-25 minutes.

What did you mean by this?   Putting practice in general is not an effective practice?

It's good practice when it's dedicated practice time, but it's not as effective when just used to warm up before a round.  At least that's true for most people.  Some time back I read an article that said that too much putting before a round can actually have a negative effect on one's swing.  The author recommended that you do your putting warm up first, then go to the range and hit 20 or 30 balls max, then go to the tee.

I haven't seen the relationship that he was professing, but I never know when I step up to the first tee what is going to happen.  That is true no matter how much or how little I warm up, or how I go about it.  My greatest success was always to spend time on the chipping green, then hit the putting green for about 5 minutes before going to the first tee - no range warm up at all.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Putting for 20-30 minutes is a good way to waste 15-25 minutes.

What did you mean by this?   Putting practice in general is not an effective practice?

It's good practice when it's dedicated practice time, but it's not as effective when just used to warm up before a round.  At least that's true for most people.

Ok, got it and I agree.   I just practice to get a feel for how fast, slow the green is going to be, and to remind my putting stroke is on pendulum path.

[iacas]

This is what works for me.

You're an 8.3, though…

Mental Game – concentrate on the shots and targets, not the swing

Risk vs Reward - Avoid unnecessary risks and lay up on the par-5 holes

Practice – use soft shot drills

Putting – Avoid the 3-jacks, learn to lag

Draw – learn to hit the low trap draw

Nutrition – eat right and keep energy levels up

Loose – stay loose and limber by stretching during your round

Stance – move the ball back in your stance

Degrees of Difference – maintain the same approach angle for all shots

I know a lot of people who shoot in the 70s who do almost none of those things.

Moving the ball back in your stance is a bit of a cheat. I disagree with the importance of hitting the "low trap draw." I can hit one… and almost never do. No point. Hitting the ball high is an advantage over hitting the ball low.

Your PS is completely unnecessary.

Here are my tips for those who want to shoot in the 70s.

• Hit 9-10 greens per round.
• This means working on your full swings (driver, irons).
• Spend a little time on your putting, and a bit more on your short game, but don't spend a lot of time on those.
• Be aggressive on the course for distance (second shots on par fives, etc.) but avoid taking penalty strokes, and aim for the fat part of the greens, even from 70 yards away.

[Phil McGleno]

What did you mean by this?   Putting practice in general is not an effective practice?

It is too much time to practice putting to the exclusion of everything else. People practice putting too much. This guy says he ONLY practices putting before he plays.

[The Recreational Golfer]

How do I get in the 70s?

Hit the driver and irons straight.

Chip close.

Leave approach putts real close.

Don't miss from four feet in.

[Lihu]

Hello Phil,

Re: Fowler and Points not being able to execute the same shot as Barnes – we’ll agree to disagree.

I am pretty much sure neither of them have golf clubs named after a golf shot they invented. In fact, siting their insipid approach to the game I would go so far to say neither of them ever will. If you don’t like Brian Barnes, that’s okay.

Re: How long you have been doing something does not really mean you are any good at it.

So the wise choice for a risky surgery would be to choose the intern over the surgeon with 25 years of experience?

Ferg

Not a fair comparison to an intern, but a 5 year surgeon prodigy who is gifted using the Davinci Robot, then sure.