How many of you "fluff" your ball or play 6"/winter rules all the time?

[Motown88]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

This puzzles me too.  I reiterate that I don't really care what others do when they aren't in competition with me, but I can't understand the attitude that golf can't be fun when played by the rules.  To me, playing any other way is just wasting time, since I can't count anything I do as being part of a meaningful round.

Have a great round and shoot a lifetime low score?  Nope didn't happen since I was giving myself improved lies.  Holed out from the fairway for an eagle?  Can't really count it since I rolled the ball off that dry patch of fairway grass.  I'm left with only one memory, and that is that I didn't play the game as it was meant to be played, thus anything I accomplished is irrelevant.  To me, for my own play, that approach is unacceptable.

I often wonder when reading the accomplishments of others on this forum how many times those great holes or outstanding rounds were truly played by the rules, especially after reading this thread and seeing how many players really don't seem to think that the rules have any bearing on the game.  If you have only broken 90 once in your life, but played by some of the modified rules seen here, then I'm really sorry, but you haven't broken 90 - you may not even have broken 100.

Golf is a game that gives players options.  Some players decide to give themselves a break and use their foot wedge to get a better lie, is this against the rules...yes.  Does that mean that the given player enjoys the game less then someone who follows every rule, probably not.  I notice a lot of higher handicap players giving themselves improved lies, it doesn't bother me at all because I know when I was very young I did the same thing.

You say you play by the rules, do you give yourself a 2 stroke penalty if a leaf moves on your backswing.  I only bring this up because it happened this past weekend and is a penalty according to the rule book.  I myself have never penalized myself for something moving during a backswing, and will still not penalize myself unless I am in a competition.  Does this make me a lesser player?

You also go on to question players saying they broke 90 for the first time.  How legitmate is their score, did they give themselves improved lies.  Well let me take it one further, what tee where they playing form.  If one player breaks 90 from the forward tees and one breaks 90 from the back tees does it make a difference.  I've broken 90 from white tees and blue tees, do my white tee scores not count as highly as my blue tee scores?  Is it the same as giving myself an improved lie?  I mean the white tees give me 200 less yards to play which is a huge advantage.

I'm not trying to grill you or anything.  I'm just a believer in every golfer playing their own game and having a good time on the course.  As long as you're not playing in a tournament then following every rule of golf I feel is not necessary.  With all that said, just to be clear, I don't fluff my shots or give myself better lies.  I play straighup for the additional challenge.

[David in FL]

Golf is a game that gives players options.  Some players decide to give themselves a break and use their foot wedge to get a better lie, is this against the rules...yes.  Does that mean that the given player enjoys the game less then someone who follows every rule, probably not.  I notice a lot of higher handicap players giving themselves improved lies, it doesn't bother me at all because I know when I was very young I did the same thing.  You say you play by the rules, do you give yourself a 2 stroke penalty if a leaf moves on your backswing.  I only bring this up because it happened this past weekend and is a penalty according to the rule book.  I myself have never penalized myself for something moving during a backswing, and will still not penalize myself unless I am in a competition.  Does this make me a lesser player? You also go on to question players saying they broke 90 for the first time.  How legitmate is their score, did they give themselves improved lies.  Well let me take it one further, what tee where they playing form.  If one player breaks 90 from the forward tees and one breaks 90 from the back tees does it make a difference.  I've broken 90 from white tees and blue tees, do my white tee scores not count as highly as my blue tee scores?  Is it the same as giving myself an improved lie?  I mean the white tees give me 200 less yards to play which is a huge advantage. I'm not trying to grill you or anything.  I'm just a believer in every golfer playing their own game and having a good time on the course.  As long as you're not playing in a tournament then following every rule of golf I feel is not necessary.  With all that said, just to be clear, I don't fluff my shots or give myself better lies.  I play straighup for the additional challenge.

I think you may have missed the point..... I'm certainly not saying that I enjoy the game more than someone who chooses not to play by the rules. Quite the opposite. They seem to be under the impression that it's not possible to enjoy the game as much when it IS played correctly. That's what I don't understand. I don't care what others do as long as it doesn't affect my round. Heck, if it somehow speeds them up, I encourage anyone who wants to to play by whatever bastardized version of the game they prefer. But for those who think that they'll somehow get less enjoyment playing by the rules, I'd challenge them to try playing correctly. I think they'll find the game more rewarding and who knows, maybe they will even find it more fun.

[HmtGolfGuy]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I think you may have missed the point.....

I'm certainly not saying that I enjoy the game more than someone who chooses not to play by the rules. Quite the opposite. They seem to be under the impression that it's not possible to enjoy the game as much when it IS played correctly. That's what I don't understand.

I don't care what others do as long as it doesn't affect my round. Heck, if it somehow speeds them up, I encourage anyone who wants to to play by whatever bastardized version of the game they prefer. But for those who think that they'll somehow get less enjoyment playing by the rules, I'd challenge them to try playing correctly. I think they'll find the game more rewarding and who knows, maybe they will even find it more fun.

The real problem here is perception.  You don't understand someone playing any way other than what you subscribe to.  I get GREAT pleasure from playing by the rules, and in general am much more satisfied with what I accomplish when I do.  HOWEVER - I grind every day at work or home to get the absolute most out of my opportunities, and on occasion I just want to go out to the course and NOT grind.  It's not that I enjoy the game more, I'm enjoying the DAY more given the specific circumstances of that day at that time in my life.

There's more than one reason to play golf - possible the least correct yet very common statement about golf is "it's a good walk spoiled".  On my "fun" days, it's a great walk (or ride) in some of the most beautiful land around.  The rest of the time it's me vs. the course, which is a whole 'nother story~

[David in FL]

The real problem here is perception.  You don't understand someone playing any way other than what you subscribe to.  I get GREAT pleasure from playing by the rules, and in general am much more satisfied with what I accomplish when I do.  HOWEVER - I grind every day at work or home to get the absolute most out of my opportunities, and on occasion I just want to go out to the course and NOT grind.  It's not that I enjoy the game more, I'm enjoying the DAY more given the specific circumstances of that day at that time in my life.  There's more than one reason to play golf - possible the least correct yet very common statement about golf is "it's a good walk spoiled".  On my "fun" days, it's a great walk (or ride) in some of the most beautiful land around.  The rest of the time it's me vs. the course, which is a whole 'nother story~

That's exactly what I just can't understand, why playing golf correctly equates to "grinding". As I said, it doesn't bother me how you play. It's just a shame you can't have the same enjoyment playing properly as you do playing some other version. I guess I'm just lucky that I enjoy the game as much as I do the way the game's intended to be played.

[LovinItAll]

That's exactly what I just can't understand, why playing golf correctly equates to "grinding". As I said, it doesn't bother me how you play. It's just a shame you can't have the same enjoyment playing properly as you do playing some other version. I guess I'm just lucky that I enjoy the game as much as I do the way the game's intended to be played.

It should be clear from my previous posts that I prefer to play the ball down all the time. If I look at it from a different perspective, though, I can see why people who play infrequently like to bump the ball. It probably gives them a little more confidence and enhances their experience. By the time one drives to the course, warms up, etc., a four hour round of golf starts to sneak up on six hours worth of total time spent on the activity. Really, if bumping it reduces frustration for guys that just like to swat it around occasionally, that's what they should do. Golf is supposed to be fun, and it's clear that not all personalities handle the ups and downs of the game very well. I'd MUCH rather see a guy bumping it and laughing rather than playing it down, flinging his clubs, and calling his mother a dirty #%*~. It took some golfing experience for me to get my emotions 100% in check. If I was a once/month player, maybe I never would have settled down and acted like a grown man should behave.

[David in FL]

I'd MUCH rather see a guy bumping it and laughing rather than playing it down, flinging his clubs, and calling his mother a dirty #%*~.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with that!

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Motown88

Golf is a game that gives players options.  Some players decide to give themselves a break and use their foot wedge to get a better lie, is this against the rules...yes.  Does that mean that the given player enjoys the game less then someone who follows every rule, probably not.  I notice a lot of higher handicap players giving themselves improved lies, it doesn't bother me at all because I know when I was very young I did the same thing.

My point is that you can't measure progress when playing this way.  Coming onto a forum, or going into the clubhouse all excited about breaking 100 for the first time is meaningless if you weren't actually playing golf.   You won't find a foot wedge in the rules of golf.  So if you used 10 bumps in one round, and 15 in another, and scored the same both times, how do you measure your progress?

Originally Posted by Motown88

You say you play by the rules, do you give yourself a 2 stroke penalty if a leaf moves on your backswing. I only bring this up because it happened this past weekend and is a penalty according to the rule book. I myself have never penalized myself for something moving during a backswing, and will still not penalize myself unless I am in a competition. Does this make me a lesser player?

The leaf moving in Petterson's backswing happened when his ball was lying in a lateral water hazard.  It's only in a hazard that you can't move a loose impediment.  Anyplace else on the course it wouldn't be a penalty.  I've had it happen, and I've penalized myself.  It's no different from failing to take the penalty for dropping from a water hazard, or failing to play a provisional when the ball is on an errant line, then just dropping and take a stroke when the ball isn't found.  A penalty is a penalty.

Originally Posted by Motown88

You also go on to question players saying they broke 90 for the first time. How legitmate is their score, did they give themselves improved lies. Well let me take it one further, what tee where they playing form. If one player breaks 90 from the forward tees and one breaks 90 from the back tees does it make a difference. I've broken 90 from white tees and blue tees, do my white tee scores not count as highly as my blue tee scores? Is it the same as giving myself an improved lie? I mean the white tees give me 200 less yards to play which is a huge advantage.

I'm not trying to grill you or anything. I'm just a believer in every golfer playing their own game and having a good time on the course. As long as you're not playing in a tournament then following every rule of golf I feel is not necessary. With all that said, just to be clear, I don't fluff my shots or give myself better lies. I play straighup for the additional challenge.

It makes no difference what tee they played from.  I've had this debate before.  We aren't all bombers, and as long as a player uses the tees that suit his game, and plays by the rules, his score is whatever he shot.  If it's a score returned for handicap, then the course rating takes care of the tee.  I've played middle or back middle tees, in the 6500 yard range, for most of my life.  That's what my handicap and length are suited to.  When I play a new course, I select the tee by the yardage, rating and slope on the card.  Then I play by the rules.

Originally Posted by David in FL

That's exactly what I just can't understand, why playing golf correctly equates to "grinding".

As I said, it doesn't bother me how you play. It's just a shame you can't have the same enjoyment playing properly as you do playing some other version. I guess I'm just lucky that I enjoy the game as much as I do the way the game's intended to be played.

My regular fourball for the last 2 years included one relative beginner who preferred to follow my lead and play by the rules,one experienced player who mostly played by the rules, but didn't always play a provisional when he should and just dropped with a 2 stroke penalty when the ball was not found, and one experienced player who was a shameless fluffer and didn't care one way or the other.  We all had a good time playing because we enjoyed each other's company, and the fluffer didn't get all up about his score, nor did it bother him that the rest of us aimed at playing by the rules.  None of us could ever have been accused of "grinding". We simply had a blast playing together.  I was the only one in the group who also played in the Mens Club and carried an official handicap.

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

It should be clear from my previous posts that I prefer to play the ball down all the time. If I look at it from a different perspective, though, I can see why people who play infrequently like to bump the ball. It probably gives them a little more confidence and enhances their experience. By the time one drives to the course, warms up, etc., a four hour round of golf starts to sneak up on six hours worth of total time spent on the activity. Really, if bumping it reduces frustration for guys that just like to swat it around occasionally, that's what they should do. Golf is supposed to be fun, and it's clear that not all personalities handle the ups and downs of the game very well. I'd MUCH rather see a guy bumping it and laughing rather than playing it down, flinging his clubs, and calling his mother a dirty #%*~.

It took some golfing experience for me to get my emotions 100% in check. If I was a once/month player, maybe I never would have settled down and acted like a grown man should behave.

As I've said several times, I don't really care how anyone has to play to have fun, but the round and the score simply have no meaning, no measure, when played by some rules other than the ones in the book.

[Motown88]

Quote:

It makes no difference what tee they played from.  I've had this debate before.  We aren't all bombers, and as long as a player uses the tees that suit his game, and plays by the rules, his score is whatever he shot.  If it's a score returned for handicap, then the course rating takes care of the tee.  I've played middle or back middle tees, in the 6500 yard range, for most of my life.  That's what my handicap and length are suited to.  When I play a new course, I select the tee by the yardage, rating and slope on the card.  Then I play by the rules.It does

It does make a difference what tee you play from.  You originally complained about players coming on here and bragging about how they broke 100 or 90 for the first time.  You made no mention to handicap, and neither did I.  When it comes to handicap, yes the tee comes into play and is used to calculate the players handicap.  Regardless of my handicap I can break 90 or 80 a hell of a lot easier from the forward tees then I can from the back ones.  Who's to say the players who brag about their low scores didn't do it from a forward tee.  I don't care if someone hits from the ladies tees and then kicks their golf balls back to the fairway and then break 80.  If that's an accomplishment to them that good for them, it doesn't effect me at all.

Are you honestly telling me you've never broken a rule in golf.  Have you ever moved a golf ball off of rocks or tree roots to avoid damage to your equipemnt and not penalized yourself?  Have you ever hit a shot out of turn and given yourself a 1 stroke penalty?  If you lose a golf ball do you ALWAYS walk back to the tee box and hit a second shot if you failed to hit a provisional?  I'm sure at some point in your golfing life you've broke a rule or two and not taken the penalty.  If you're playing for fun then does it matter if you break a rule.  Tournaments are different, but the majority of golfers don't play in tournaments.

Originally Posted by Fourputt

As I've said several times, I don't really care how anyone has to play to have fun, but the round and the score simply have no meaning, no measure, when played by some rules other than the ones in the book.

Their scores may have no meaning to you but they may have meaning to other players.  As I've said before, one persons accomplishments may not be an accomplishment for you or another serious golfer.  This is a forum that has beginners and pro level golfers, everyone has their accomplishments and should be able to brag about them.  If someone playing by different rules scores a good round and you don't approve of it then just ignore it. It's that simple.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

The leaf moving in Petterson's backswing happened when his ball was lying in a lateral water hazard.  It's only in a hazard that you can't move a loose impediment.  Anyplace else on the course it wouldn't be a penalty.  I've had it happen, and I've penalized myself.  It's no different from failing to take the penalty for dropping from a water hazard, or failing to play a provisional when the ball is on an errant line, then just dropping and take a stroke when the ball isn't found.  A penalty is a penalty.

I felt bad for him at first, but then watching a replay I was surprised at how close he had his club to the ball.  While the leaf moving was a little flukey, he was asking for trouble by coming that close to grounding the club in the first place.  Just because you CAN brush the grass doesn't make it a smart idea.

As to enjoyment, I find nothing more enjoyable than pulling off a recovery shot from a difficult spot I left myself in or a difficult lie my ball rolled into.  I would lose that enjoyment if I improved my lie or position before trying the shot.  To me a big element of the game of golf is overcoming the challenges that arise in the course of a round.  That is the challenge and the enjoyment for me.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Motown88

Quote:

It does make a difference what tee you play from.  You originally complained about players coming on here and bragging about how they broke 100 or 90 for the first time.  You made no mention to handicap, and neither did I.  When it comes to handicap, yes the tee comes into play and is used to calculate the players handicap.  Regardless of my handicap I can break 90 or 80 a hell of a lot easier from the forward tees then I can from the back ones.  Who's to say the players who brag about their low scores didn't do it from a forward tee.  I don't care if someone hits from the ladies tees and then kicks their golf balls back to the fairway and then break 80.  If that's an accomplishment to them that good for them, it doesn't effect me at all.

We will never agree on this.  I can't play golf from 7500 yards.  Sorry if that doesn't register with you.  I wouldn't brag about any round I played regardless of the score or tee set except when ragging with my friends.  I certainly wouldn't think of a low round played at 5000 yards as much of an accomplishment, but then I don't play from the forward tees, nor do any players I know except for my female friends.

Originally Posted by Motown88

Are you honestly telling me you've never broken a rule in golf. Have you ever moved a golf ball off of rocks or tree roots to avoid damage to your equipemnt and not penalized yourself? Have you ever hit a shot out of turn and given yourself a 1 stroke penalty? If you lose a golf ball do you ALWAYS walk back to the tee box and hit a second shot if you failed to hit a provisional? I'm sure at some point in your golfing life you've broke a rule or two and not taken the penalty. If you're playing for fun then does it matter if you break a rule. Tournaments are different, but the majority of golfers don't play in tournaments.

Yes I am telling you that, since I started carrying a rule book some 27 years ago, I have never done that.  I will take a correct drop for an unplayable lie under Rule 28 and accept the penalty that goes with it.  But most of the time I play it as it lies if it's at all possible.  Unlike most here I see my clubs as tools, and I use them as they are intended.  I don't baby them, yet I've never broken a club in playing a stroke.  And to ME yes, it does matter if I break a rule, but I only apply that standard to myself .  I've said over and over again, you do what you want to to as long as we aren't competing, but don't try to tell me how you beat me unless you also play by the rules.

Originally Posted by Motown88

Their scores may have no meaning to you but they may have meaning to other players. As I've said before, one persons accomplishments may not be an accomplishment for you or another serious golfer. This is a forum that has beginners and pro level golfers, everyone has their accomplishments and should be able to brag about them. If someone playing by different rules scores a good round and you don't approve of it then just ignore it. It's that simple.

My point is not that they have no meaning, but that you can't measure when the rules change every time you play.  And you can't measure your accomplishments against anyone else because you play by your own rules, or by no rules at all.  That's like comparing meters to gallons, there is no common denominator.  And show me where I said I don't approve of it. I made a point in each post to state that I really don't care for myself what anyone else does.  I apply my standards to myself alone.   Here's your chance to actually read what I wrote.

[Motown88]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

My point is not that they have no meaning, but that you can't measure when the rules change every time you play.  And you can't measure your accomplishments against anyone else because you play by your own rules, or by no rules at all.  That's like comparing meters to gallons, there is no common denominator.  And show me where I said I don't approve of it. I made a point in each post to state that I really don't care for myself what anyone else does.  I apply my standards to myself alone.   Here's your chance to actually read what I wrote.

Originally Posted by Fourputt

My point is that you can't measure progress when playing this way.  Coming onto a forum, or going into the clubhouse all excited about breaking 100 for the first time is meaningless if you weren't actually playing golf.   You won't find a foot wedge in the rules of golf.  So if you used 10 bumps in one round, and 15 in another, and scored the same both times, how do you measure your progress?

I do read what you write, and that's the reason I quote you when I respond.  Same reason you quote me when you respond.  You talk about people getting excited about breaking 100 for the first time, but then go on to say it's meaningless if they didn't play by the rules.  I'm telling you that there is meaning to those players.  It may not be an accomplishment by the rule book or in your opinion, but to the individual player it is.  That's why I keep bringing up tee placements, or better lies.  I prefer to play the course at the hardest difficulty I can that suits my game, I also play by all the rules, I enjoy that.  But if another player plays a shorter course and fluffs his ball and shoots well enough to brag I will congratulate that person.  What's an accomplishment to one person isn't always an accomplishment to another.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Quote:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

I'd MUCH rather see a guy bumping it and laughing rather than playing it down, flinging his clubs, and calling his mother a dirty #%*~.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with that!

100% here too.  That second guy would be hard to stomach.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Motown88

I do read what you write, and that's the reason I quote you when I respond.  Same reason you quote me when you respond.  You talk about people getting excited about breaking 100 for the first time, but then go on to say it's meaningless if they didn't play by the rules.  I'm telling you that there is meaning to those players.  It may not be an accomplishment by the rule book or in your opinion, but to the individual player it is.  That's why I keep bringing up tee placements, or better lies.  I prefer to play the course at the hardest difficulty I can that suits my game, I also play by all the rules, I enjoy that.  But if another player plays a shorter course and fluffs his ball and shoots well enough to brag I will congratulate that person.  What's an accomplishment to one person isn't always an accomplishment to another.

It has about as much meaning as if I was crowing about how I dunked a basketball, but didn't mention that it was on an 8' high basket.

[Jimbo Slice]

When I first started golfing I had loaner clubs, and would occasionally adjust my lie. The only reason I did this, was not to damage the clubs. Every now and again the ball would come to rest in rocks or pea sized gravel, and I didn't want to hit off it with the loaner clubs. I now have my own clubs and will hit these babies off anything, and if it looks really bad I have a cheep hacker wedge and a hacker 6 iron in my bag. I have those two hacker clubs for when the lie get really bad lol. I've had to use them both a few times and put some nasty dings on them. I actually had to do some file work on my hacker wedge after a crazy shot off some rocks in the desert, but the shot did get up and out of there.

I refuse to adjust any type of lie, unless it just has to be done for some reason? I don't have any problems at all with someone who does, but if you do adjust at least one lie per round. You might as well not keep score, that's how I look at it. If you are adjusting your lie on a regular basis, play a full legit round every now and again and see how that works out.

[mrdb]

I'd never heard of this term. I thought you were referring to people warming there balls so they go further (something I've heard of people doing in very cold climates) or it was a porn reference.

I play in Australia and I gather things are very different to the U.S. If you are a member of a golf course, public or private, we play most of our serious golf in a competition format. That is the only way you can get a legitimate handicap here. You play by the rules of golf and/or any local rules in place on the day. If someone was caught preferring their lies (and it wasn't a local rule for the day) they'd likely get reported and have to face the match committee, where special conditions might be placed on their playing rights or possible suspension for a determined period of time. So if your ball lands on a root or a rock, you either play it or take a penalty drop. If your ball moves when you address it, you are expected to call the penalty etc.

The rub of the green is a part of golf and while it sucks sometimes, if your drive catches the cart path and bounds on another 150 yards you can run around telling people you bombed one 400!

[inthehole]

I play with a co-worker that fluffs every fairway shot - bugs the crap outa me.      I play as it lies in spite of him & that bugs the crap outa him - LOL.     It's a pleasure when I beat him playing correctly ...

PS - the ONLY time I allow myself to move a ball is if it lies on a rock where I would damage a club.     This is my rule, and I never move it far or advance it.

[kw purp]

played yesterday with a friend of mine who I had not played with in awhile and who is a better player than me. Probably around a 5 handicap. He improved his lie on every shot, he would pick up the ball and place it perfectly. I was shocked, he has the skills to where that isnt necessary at all. Didnt say anything to him about it or lose respect for his game since I know he is good, but it was odd to me

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by inthehole

PS - the ONLY time I allow myself to move a ball is if it lies on a rock where I would damage a club.     This is my rule, and I never move it far or advance it.

OK, so I don't have to go to golf confession and can have a clear conscience ... for future reference, what is the penalty for moving a ball off a rock or gravel, and dropping a clubs length away ?      1 or 2 strokes ??    Thx