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Originally Posted by Nosevi

One other quick question, how many people were cheering at the end? ie how many Europeans were absolutely silent for Stricker?

At the previous one there were a lot of Americans in the crowd too and they were silent for McD. Maybe this Ryder Cup was more open to non golf fans or something but I don't actually think it's on shouting durring someone putting - I'd be pretty surprised if any golf fans did.

I still don't personally like the debate of American fans vs European fans and I honestly do not get it. I really don't care what race or nationality you are. Every single continent on this earth has its share of idiots, period. Debating who has less is like arguing politics, you will never - ever - win that debate. I guess I just don't care to exhaust myself over things that I cannot control.

The only thing that I can say is that there appeared to be a lot of younger people in attendance and that is not necessarily a bad thing. But, when you throw in the vast amounts of alcohol with young people...you get arrogance and liquid courage boiling to a point of annoyance. You'll have people being stupid and yelling and doing things that are out of character (and also well within their character if they're that type).

I think nearly every camera angle of the gallery showed younger people dressed up like halloween or having a flag draped over them while they're holding their $10.00 24oz. Bud Light. I love alcohol myself, but I also know my limits (be it high enough to drop a rhino) - and I never let myself get carried away or piss self-control away.

My scattered rant here is just meant to say "We all have bad fans and good fans alike, unfortunately the bad fans will always take attention away from the good fans and be remembered more so than the good fans". There are also not many die-hard golf fans that attend these events apparently, because I also heard that many college kids were tailgating this event as if it were OSU vs Michigan...... that tells you a lot as well.

When I say die-hard golf fans, I mean those who genuinely love the game, play the game, respect the game and the legend/history of the game. Those types of fans are not very common to be honest. We here on TST are a minority when it comes to golf, sadly.

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Originally Posted by Nosevi

One other quick question, how many people were cheering at the end? ie how many Europeans were absolutely silent for Stricker?

At the previous one there were a lot of Americans in the crowd too and they were silent for McD. Maybe this Ryder Cup was more open to non golf fans or something but I don't actually think it's on shouting durring someone putting - I'd be pretty surprised if any golf fans did.

I believe there are more European visitors that come abroad for the Ryder than Americans. We have so many other sports going on during Ryder time, American/College, Baseball playoffs about to start. Not sure you can compare the different crowd reactions  as I don't believe you get just die hard golf fans at our Ryders. I must say that I was surprised at the voice furious response of the Euro play. I believe one factor is many Euro players play and some have homes over here and they get some American fans. Tiger is considering playing European tour. I'll be curious to hear Euro fans reaction.

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/8485361/tiger-woods-consider-joining-european-tour-qualifications-change

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Originally Posted by Spyder

I still don't personally like the debate of American fans vs European fans and I honestly do not get it. I really don't care what race or nationality you are. Every single continent on this earth has its share of idiots, period. Debating who has less is like arguing politics, you will never - ever - win that debate. I guess I just don't care to exhaust myself over things that I cannot control.

I Thought we were finally getting on topic of this thread, but I agree on your other points.

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[QUOTE name="Nosevi" url="/t/61371/americans-shouting/288#post_776816"] One other quick question, how many people were cheering at the end? ie how many Europeans were absolutely silent for Stricker? At the previous one there were a lot of Americans in the crowd too and they were silent for McD. Maybe this Ryder Cup was more open to non golf fans or something but I don't actually think it's on shouting durring someone putting - I'd be pretty surprised if any golf fans did.[/QUOTE] I still don't personally like the debate of American fans vs European fans and I honestly do not get it. I really don't care what race or nationality you are. Every single continent on this earth has its share of idiots, period. Debating who has less is like arguing politics, you will never - ever - win that debate. I guess I just don't care to exhaust myself over things that I cannot control. The only thing that I can say is that there appeared to be a lot of younger people in attendance and that is not necessarily a bad thing. But, when you throw in the vast amounts of alcohol with young people...you get arrogance and liquid courage boiling to a point of annoyance. You'll have people being stupid and yelling and doing things that are out of character (and also well within their character if they're that type). I think nearly every camera angle of the gallery showed younger people dressed up like halloween or having a flag draped over them while they're holding their $10.00 24oz. Bud Light. I love alcohol myself, but I also know my limits (be it high enough to drop a rhino) - and I never let myself get carried away or piss self-control away. My scattered rant here is just meant to say "We all have bad fans and good fans alike, unfortunately the bad fans will always take attention away from the good fans and be remembered more so than the good fans". There are also not many die-hard golf fans that attend these events apparently, because I also heard that many college kids were tailgating this event as if it were OSU vs Michigan...... that tells you a lot as well. When I say die-hard golf fans, I mean those who genuinely love the game, play the game, respect the game and the legend/history of the game. Those types of fans are not very common to be honest. We here on TST are a minority when it comes to golf, sadly.

This is going to sound odd, but I agree. Not a rant at all, some good points. The point I made was that there was in fact a big difference in the respect the crowd had in Celtic Manor compared to this time round. What you've said talleys with what I said - I don't think any golf fan would have behaved like some of the crowd behaved this year. I do think golf is more main stream over in the States and I think this Ryder Cup was more main stream than previous ones ie loads of non golf fans in attendance. The thing is that while I support a broadening of golf (I voted for the shorts on the other thread!) if that means a total lack of respect for the etiquette of the game, mocking a player about his recently deceased father, another about his dead close friend and abusing players wives and girlfriends, then frankly I'd rather it's appesl wasn't quite so broad. The only real difference is the people who traveled from Europe WERE golf fans. Not all those who traveled in from closer were. In Celtic Manor I don't think we suffered from that as your average drunk University student wasn't about to travel out there to go and watch. I hope the same is the case for Gleneagles.

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[QUOTE name="Nosevi" url="/t/61371/americans-shouting/288#post_776816"] One other quick question, how many people were cheering at the end? ie how many Europeans were absolutely silent for Stricker? At the previous one there were a lot of Americans in the crowd too and they were silent for McD. Maybe this Ryder Cup was more open to non golf fans or something but I don't actually think it's on shouting durring someone putting - I'd be pretty surprised if any golf fans did.[/QUOTE] I believe there are more European visitors that come abroad for the Ryder than Americans. We have so many other sports going on during Ryder time, American/College, Baseball playoffs about to start. Not sure you can compare the different crowd reactions  as I don't believe you get just die hard golf fans at our Ryders. I must say that I was surprised at the voice furious response of the Euro play. I believe one factor is many Euro players play and some have homes over here and they get some American fans. Tiger is considering playing European tour. I'll be curious to hear Euro fans reaction. [URL=http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/8485361/tiger-woods-consider-joining-european-tour-qualifications-change]http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/8485361/tiger-woods-consider-joining-european-tour-qualifications-change[/URL]

I agree, Like I've said, I do not think it's a case of die hard European golf fans - good, die hard American Golf fans -bad. I think it's just we only get golf fans coming to watch golf (odd as that sounds) where as you tend to get general sports fans as well, at least you did this time. Regarding Tiger joining the Europesn Tour, I believe he wanted to before but couldn't get the scheduling right. The European Tour asked him to play in too many tournaments and previously didn't count as many joint events. Tiger has always been really upbeat about the European Tour, he's said on several occasions his favourite course by far is St Andrews and he likes the variety on the European Tour. Also, and this is important, Tiger is not daft. World Golf Ranking points available for a tournament are worked out based on who's playing in an event, the higer the World Golf Ranking of the players entering, the more WGR points are up for grabs. Out of the Top 6 players in the world, Tiger is the only one not playing on the European Tour. That means the other 5 can hit the same events in the States but also on the European tour and so be playing for more points while Tiger plays some of the more minor events on the PGA Tour.

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Quote:

Also, and this is important, Tiger is not daft. World Golf Ranking points available for a tournament are worked out based on who's playing in an event, the higer the World Golf Ranking of the players entering, the more WGR points are up for grabs. Out of the Top 6 players in the world, Tiger is the only one not playing on the European Tour. That means the other 5 can hit the same events in the States but also on the European tour and so be playing for more points while Tiger plays some of the more minor events on the PGA Tour.

Maybe that is why 4 of top 5 WGR are Europeans. Sorry couldn't resist. I gotta go, lots of good baseball and American Football on TV today.

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Originally Posted by Monte the Bear

You've been to Augusta, right? So you would know that although there are many tree's there, it

a. has really wide fairways on an awful lot of holes.

b. has no rough. I mean zero, compared to any other major (but quite a lot compared to Medinah).

c. really helps a lefty who can hit fade it or a righty who can draw it. One of the reasons Trevino never got close at Augusta - he could not get round there.

By what you said I don't think you've been there (not recently anyway).


Uhm, Nicklaus faded the ball and did okay there. Trevino hit the ball too LOW.

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Quote: Maybe that is why 4 of top 5 WGR are Europeans. Sorry couldn't resist.

No, that's ok, I agree. Unlike the US players they've realised that golf is a world sport, played extensively throughout Europe, the Middle East, South Africa, the Far East, Australia etc. even on that dull little European Tour that no one cares about. And they've rightly been rewarded. Tiger has realised this and leads a charge of PGA players who have the bottle to pit themselves against the rest of the world and play the great game of golf on different continents and on a variety of courses. Where Tiger leads others will follow !!!! ........ ......Or he was just being polite and has no intension of actually doing it :-)

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If he bailed completely to the Euro tour the man would receive more "dislikes" than anyone in the history of Facebook - or do I mean Twitter. I always chuckle when I say Twitter. Yanks don't know what a 'twit' (adj.) truly means.:-)
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If he bailed completely to the Euro tour the man would receive more "dislikes" than anyone in the history of Facebook - or do I mean Twitter. I always chuckle when I say Twitter. Yanks don't know what a 'twit' (adj.) truly means.:-)

LOL

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Originally Posted by Chas

ermm, it's tough to turn down guaranteed earnings of X million bucks. For that kind of gelt I'd play on the dark side of the moon.

I don't believe Tiger needs more gelt, he might be better served buckling his belt.

Originally Posted by Chas

If he bailed completely to the Euro tour the man would receive more "dislikes" than anyone in the history of Facebook - or do I mean Twitter.

I always chuckle when I say Twitter. Yanks don't know what a 'twit' (adj.) truly means.

I'd love to have the gelt from the 'twit" who founded twitter. Yea, I had to look up twit in the dictionary and there was just a picture of Monte.

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A few general points, based on the fact that my family lived in several countries in Europe in my younger days, the longest period in the UK. 1) In the 1980's one did see and hear quite a few "ugly Americans" including, sadly, some of those who lived there (and should have known better). I was always appalled by the loud and coarse rudeness that some of my fellow countrypersons exhibited and I always tried to be the opposite, polite and civil with everyone. 2) Some of the ugly Americans' criticisms weren't unreasonable. At the time, the average Brit probably bathed twice a week and plenty probably bathed no more than once a week and did not have either of his two sportcoats cleaned more than once a season. I encountered some very foul body odors, particularly in warmer months, every single day when I commuted to school by train and bus. British chocolates were very good, their dairy products (other than the frozen slime they attempted to pass off as ice cream) and bakery goods were outstanding, as was often the case with foods found in ethnic restaurants. However, most of the rest of British foods, particularly meats, were at best bland and at worst attrocious - a steak at a pretty expensive restaurant was probably borderline too tough and flavorless to sell as stew meat in the U.S., no exaggeration. 3) Some Brits didn't like Yanks and weren't shy about it, but they were a small minority and the substantial number of Brits with whom I dealt were very pleasant people. 4) Every country on earth has its fair share of decent, thoughtful, quality people and most have more than their fair shares of loudmouths, jerks, bigots and xenophobes. =========== At the risk of feeding the troll, I will post a few historical corrections that, quite frankly, I am surprised no one else posted here previously. But first, a statement about the Brits in WWII: The British were an extremely brave nation that did stand nearly singlehandedly (with the support of their colonies) for approximately a year and a half against the might of the Nazi war machine. Their aircraft industry outproduced the Germans during the crucial first two years of the war and their outstanding intelligence services (at least outstanding pre-Cold War) were a major contributing factor in the Allied success. Having said that, I would not count Monte among those Brits I hold in esteem (and I currently count several as friends) and would have to say that his ignorance of history is pretty shocking for someone whose country has played such a major roll in it over the past thousand years. Some corrections, Monte, good chap: 1) Notwithstanding their courage in winning the Battle of Britain, England almost certainly would have fallen to the Germans absent America's help. a) Britain's war industry could not have survived absent the substantial influx of material from the U.S., not to mention loaned military equipment. The German U-boat fleet was sinking the British merchant marine at a far faster rate than ships could be built, so absent the influx of the American destroyers and planes to patrol the convoys, first via Lend Lease, then directly after December of 1941, the Germans would have won the Battle of the Atlantic and would have blockaded the British isles, choking its industries, military and civilian both, to a slow death. b) Rommel would certainly have driven the British out of North Africa, but for the influx of American planes, tanks and troops, resulting in the loss of the Suez Canal, thereby forcing ships from India, Australia and New Zealand to circumvent the tip of Africa. c) The Japanese were pounding the British in Southeast Asia, forcing the surrender of Singapore somewhat more bravely, but just as completely as the French capitulation in 1940. d) Even with Nazi forces diverted to the Eastern Front, Britain could not have defeated Germany on its own and a standoff would eventually have led to a German victory. Without D-Day and the invasion of Germany, the war would have stretched out long enough for the Nazis to begin the mass production of jets and to build nuclear weapons that would have won the war. 2) Monte's claim "And frankly, had you not had two nuclear bombs, there's a good chance you would be speaking Japanese or German." is about as asinine and silly of a statement on history as any I have heard. Seriously, did you never study World War II at all? a) The American development of the atom bomb had no impact whatsoever on ending the European war - the A-bomb was not even tested until 2 months after VE Day. At best, one could say that efforts to sabotage German nuclear research insured that the Nazis were a year or more behind the Allies in developing the atomic bomb. b) After the first 6 months of America's entry into WWII, the Japanese had no further victories of any significance - see the following list of major Japanese victories in WWII, which ends with the Battle of the Coral Sea and Battle of Corregidor in the first week of May 1942: http://www.everythingworldwar2.com/wolrd_war_2_pacific/japan_victories_world_war_2_pacific.html From mid-1942 onward, American forces steadily reconquered much of the Japanese territory in the Pacific and with the exception of some smaller bases that had been been ignored or rendered irrelevant during the island hopping campaign and a portion of the Phillipines, Japan had lost almost all of its Pacific islands conquests by the summer of 1945. The U.S. Navy had effectively blockaded the Japanese mainland cutting off all oil supplies except some run by submarine and the USAF was starting to pound Japan into submission. The war was won by August of 1945, it simply required the atomic bombs to break through the obstinancy of the "never surrender" attitudes of the Japanese. Given a few more months, the USA would have destroyed the last of the Japanese naval and army air forces and would have begun a relentless campaign of conventional bombing to soften up the country for invasion. The two atomic bombs ultimately saved millions of lives that might have been lost in the invasion of Japan. =========== Having established some historical accuracy in this thread, let me state that if we are now long past currently blaming the peoples of Germany, Italy and Japan for starting WWII, we probably should similarly put to rest the "You Euros would be speaking German if it wasn't for the U.S." shtick. That was 67 years ago and most of the anti-American comments currently targeted at the US are for our government's actions in more recent decades.
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Crap - I actually had a bunch of paragraphs in my post above - when I hit submit it deleted all my line breaks and now I cannot even get "Edit" to work. I'll try to go back later and edit it. Sorry about the world's 3rd longest paragraph.
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Good grief. I lived in the U.K. From the mid-50s to the early 80s and take issue with many of your generalizations about Britain and the brits, e.g. hygiene-related ones. Twice-a-week on average? Ridiculous. Re: food, as in other countries, you need to know what to eat and where. IME, and I generalize, many americans were rather clueless in this respect and didn't make the effort to educate themselves other than to visit the local Indian - a very limiting strategy. For example, very few americans were to be seen in rural or semi-rural eateries (Inns, pubs, etc) where some of the best food is to be found - perhaps partly out of fear of driving on the 'wrong' side. It's a generalization but american tourists weren't always among the more adventurous. In cities they did not depart sufficiently from the well-worn tracks. I shall be visiting Blighty next year and look forward to tucking into some good local nosh. Roast leg of lamb (English lamb of course) with all the trimmings, pigs in blanket, shepherd's pie, fish'n chips (correctly prepared, i.e. sodden), Cornish pasty, roast beef and Yorkshire pudding - the list goes on and on ...... ;-) It is true that in the old days you had to go to Earl's Court to be sure of a really good hamburger and I occasionally did so. And steak was more of a gamble than it was or is here (this has improved greatly). OTOH, have you tried ordering lamb in the U.S.? - dodgy.
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Originally Posted by Chas

I shall be visiting Blighty next year and look forward to tucking into some good local nosh. Roast leg of lamb (English lamb of course) with all the trimmings, pigs in blanket, shepherd's pie, fish'n chips (correctly prepared, i.e. sodden), Cornish pasty, roast beef and Yorkshire pudding - the list goes on and on ......

It is true that in the old days you had to go to Earl's Court to be sure of a really good hamburger and I occasionally did so. And steak was more of a gamble than it was or is here (this has improved greatly). OTOH, have you tried ordering lamb in the U.S.? - dodgy.

Not recently, but we have some really good HOT DOGS...... Hey if we really liked Tea, we might still be a British Colony. LOL...

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