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how to hit a draw?


dash1988
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I'm starting to think I'm a stubborn old bugger. With two different  people saying the same thing perhaps I'm wrong. Can  this backed up by science, and if so link me man. Everyone of my assistants and myself teach this method with all mostly all playing college and various tours. Should have joined the forum way earlier.  Link me.

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Your'e right about the squeeze thing since if hit properly the ball is gone before the club touches the turf. What I should have written is the angle of attack is steeper on that shot and feels as though it's being trapped. About the ball flight thing,  it has to start down the swing path.

What makes you think it "has" to?

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I"m not advocating aiming  your club at a tree right in front of you and so on. If your  swing path is 6 oclock to 12 oclock  and you're i n the middle of the clock with your clubface aimed at the 11, it's an absolute impossibility the ball will not start at the 12.  Doesn'tt matter if your face is aimed at the 10. The swing path will determine where the ball starts out.  It's freaking physics. I've played this shot for over forty years with the old and new equipment. Really, try it.

Sounds as if you and I have been playing this silly game for about the same length of time. While it may feel to you as if the ball flight is driven by the swing path, that's simply not the case. The initial ball direction off the club face is determined by the angle of the club face. The curve, is determined by the swing path relative to that club face. You're right though.....it is simple freaking physics. It's just taken awhile for us to be able to clearly see it with high speed photography instead of relying on what it feels like. Even relatively old dogs like us (me) can learn new tricks......especially when I can see it in ultra slow mo! Once I finally understood the true laws of ball flight, my control over the shape of my shots improved dramatically.

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I knew once this was posted it was going to be a doosy. As a righty I keep my right foot slightly behind my left. As long as my swing mechanics are right, I exaggerate tucking my right arm to force an inside out swing. This causes counter clockwise spin creating the draw and sometimes a push draw depending on the position of the club face. This works for me. There may be better techniques.
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Originally Posted by zipazoid

The Nicklaus method of curving the ball. Simple.

IIRC, he made mention that it was easier and more consistent to merely change setup stance and the clubface angle and just make a normal swing vs. attempting to make changes in his downswing as he was swinging.

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Originally Posted by dash1988

i specifically want to hit a draw with my driver if that makes any difference?


If anyone has access to the high speed photos talked about earlier please post the link. I am very interested in correcting a forty year old mistake. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by boonecash

I"m not advocating aiming  your club at a tree right in front of you and so on. If your  swing path is 6 oclock to 12 oclock  and you're i n the middle of the clock with your clubface aimed at the 11, it's an absolute impossibility the ball will not start at the 12.  Doesn'tt matter if your face is aimed at the 10. The swing path will determine where the ball starts out.  It's freaking physics. I've played this shot for over forty years with the old and new equipment. Really, try it.

It's not.

boonecash, look at this:

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

And really, just look around. The ball starts where the clubface is POINTING and curves AWAY from the path.

Everyone else, perhaps y'all can help the OP.

FWIW, put me in the camp of "it's going to be tough for you to hit a draw with an over-the-top move. The face would have to be so closed to your body that you'd hit low pull-draws - not the kind of draw you're likely looking to hit.

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Originally Posted by iacas

It's not.

boonecash, look at this:

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

And really, just look around. The ball starts where the clubface is POINTING and curves AWAY from the path.

Everyone else, perhaps y'all can help the OP.

FWIW, put me in the camp of "it's going to be tough for you to hit a draw with an over-the-top move. The face would have to be so closed to your body that you'd hit low pull-draws - not the kind of draw you're likely looking to hit.


Unreal. I couldn't begin to tell you how many very accomplished players think exactly as I used to(until I joined this forum). I've been teaching an incorrect move for over twenty years. Nice going. Thanks for the info guys.

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Originally Posted by boonecash

Unreal. I couldn't begin to tell you how many very accomplished players think exactly as I used to(until I joined this forum). I've been teaching an incorrect move for over twenty years. Nice going. Thanks for the info guys.

Yes, many pros and instructors have gotten this wrong for quite some time. How much that truly matters is a matter of debate.

Kudos for being open-minded enough to accept that "the old way" doesn't necessarily guarantee it's "the right way."

Anyway, back to the original guy's topic... and the basic answer is this: the face has to be closed to the path. So make the path more "outward" with a face pointing right (for a righty) of the target at impact for the draw to be playable.

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It is nice to see this discussion.  I too after finding this site realized my misconception about the physics of the ball flight.  Thank you for that.

However, does it really change anything?  As a student trying to reduce slice or hit a draw like the OP does you instruction change in how to teach what to change?

At the end of the day it is still : try to adjust your swing to get rid of the over the top to more straight or inside out?  Or, close your stance and close your face varying degrees until you get the results you want?

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It is nice to see this discussion.  I too after finding this site realized my misconception about the physics of the ball flight.  Thank you for that. However, does it really change anything?  As a student trying to reduce slice or hit a draw like the OP does you instruction change in how to teach what to change? At the end of the day it is still : try to adjust your swing to get rid of the over the top to more straight or inside out?  Or, close your stance and close your face varying degrees until you get the results you want?

I played for many years not knowing what makes the ball turn a certain way. It is a revelation to now know why i hit that huge block to the right, or why i hit that dead straight left. I have made big improvements. I still suck more than Michael Jackson at a boy scouts convention, but i am no longer in the dark about it.

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Originally Posted by ndb8fxe

However, does it really change anything?  As a student trying to reduce slice or hit a draw like the OP does you instruction change in how to teach what to change?

Yes, it does change things.

But that's kind of OT and I'd like to get this thread back on topic, so pardon the brevity...

Back on topic please, y'all! :)

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Originally Posted by ndb8fxe

At the end of the day it is still : try to adjust your swing to get rid of the over the top to more straight or inside out?  Or, close your stance and close your face varying degrees until you get the results you want?

IMO, it is more important to fix the over the top move. Face it, if you're (like myself) fighting a slice, you aren't going to just move your feet and hit a draw. I saw a nice piece on the GC last week on hitting driver. Can't remember the senior pro who was talking but he said one thing that stuck with me and it helped me immensely and immediately. An over the top moved is caused by your shoulders starting your downswing instead of your lower body. I started concentrating on my hips starting my backswing and yesterday I hit 5/5 FWs with my driver and shot 90 (my personal best)

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To be more comprehensive on my post, I found that with my lateral shift, I also rotated my torso counter clockwise which caused my over the top swing. That rotation was creating major slicing and often "pulling" my iron shots to the left. I work to keep the right arm close to the body (using the glove in the armpit drill helps) and making sure my lateral shift does not contain any torso rotation has straightened my drives out. Like I said before, if my mechanics are there, the slight posterior move of my right foot and an exaggeration of "tucking" the club inside produces the draw. I hit a very nice one yesterday ;)

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Originally Posted by boonecash

I"m not advocating aiming  your club at a tree right in front of you and so on. If your  swing path is 6 oclock to 12 oclock  and you're i n the middle of the clock with your clubface aimed at the 11, it's an absolute impossibility the ball will not start at the 12.  Doesn'tt matter if your face is aimed at the 10. The swing path will determine where the ball starts out.  It's freaking physics. I've played this shot for over forty years with the old and new equipment. Really, try it.

It doesn't matter if you've played it for 80 years. Ball flight laws have been proven wrong. If you're hitting the desired draw, you're obviously achieving the desired results. That does not mean that you're actually doing what you're saying you are doing though. You may be hitting the shot, but you're breaking it down in words that are not correct.

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