NBC Sports: Passing the "Torch" to Rory McIlroy?

[k-troop]

Umm, don't know where folks are getting Tiger's B-game.  Tiger posted 7 of his last 8 rounds in the 60s, including 6-straight, and 8 straight rounds under par.  He hasn't had a streak of golf that good since, well, 2009, when he was POY, Vardon, and just about every other thing on the PGA Tour except a major champion.

You would think, given those facts, that he would have wone both of the last two events.  But he didn't.  Rory did.

[StealthTrader]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarWest

I'd agree with most of what you have said about Tiger's record, and I think you'd need to have had a full lobotomy to attempt to denigrate Tiger's contribution to golf.  However, I think that in attempting to protect Tiger's legacy that you might do the Rory what you are accusing NBC of doing to Tiger.   I can never understand the need to run someone down in order to build someone else up.  Surely it is far mor honourable to be beaten by a potential great than by a player who's here today, gone tomorrow.

You're comparing Rory's record in his first 5 years on tour with Tiger's, ignoring the fact that Tiger was very much a finished article, and far more mature physically, when he went out on Tour.  Tiger used his College career to develop and learn as a golfer, Rory went out on Tour.  Both strategies were deemed by the players and their advisers to be the best way for them as individuals, but to suggest that you can compare their respective records from the start of their professional golf careers is ridiculous.  You're also ignoring the fact that Rory has had only two full years on the US Tour, and that he has a number of professional wins worldwide,  I think Woods record speaks for itself, but I don't think you can ignore the fact that Rory is undoubtedly the best player in the world at this moment in time, and has the potential to be the best for the next decade.

If you read my post carefully, you will conclude that mine was not the running down of Rory McIlroy.  I specifically took time out to recognize his achievements since he turned pro on the PGA Tour.  I then specifically stated that I like Rory McIlroy.  I then added that I was one of the first people on the former Golf Channel Forum, to step up to the plate and give Rory, the pre-recognition BEFORE he won anything on the PGA Tour.  That was years ago, and Rory, has done precisely what I knew he was capable of doing.  So, I don't see any denigration of Rory McIlroy, in my post.

What I do see, in my post is the realization that certain people in the world of Golf, have lost their natural mind.  Whether they have lost their mind due to illegal drug use, or their pure hate of Tiger Woods, their minds have clearly been lost, because they are literally placing a man who has accomplished half of what another man has accomplished at the same age, in the outright position of being "The Worlds Best Player on The Planet," The Golf Channel, 19th Hole, September 13, 2012.

I don't understand how such a question even emerges in the minds of some people.  We are talking about a dude that won 103 times on the PGA Tour.  I mean, just drop all the Majors entirely, and that would be enough to be considered the best professional golfer alive today.  Add back the 14 Majors, 16 WGC Championships, 16 Vardon/Nelson honors, the longer run in the history of the galaxy as the World's Number #1 Ranked Player, the widest margin in the known universe in total PGA Tour Purse at over $100,000,000.00 and the various assorted mountain peak records and milestones that man has racked up over the past 16+ years, and you not only have the best man on the PGA Tour, but you have the best player on the planet - second only to Jack Nicklaus, himself.

It would be like me attempting to state that Tiger Woods, has magically surpassed Jack, as the Best Golfer in the History of the Game.  That would be equally as absurd.  Tiger is Number #2.  Jack, is Number #1.  Period.  That will never change until Tiger, wins Major #18.  Why not Major #19?  Because, Tiger Woods, has more PGA Tour Victories than Jack, more career wins in multiple tournaments than Jack, and he did it faster than Jack.  So, Tiger, needs only to capture Major #18, in order to surpass Jack, as the Greatest Ever.

Why?

Because, the PGA Tour Pro is measured by the number of Major victories.  Not his personal life, nor his alleged reputation with the "elite" in the game, nor his like-ability rating because he'd rather focus on the tournament at hand as opposed to signing autographs and lapping it up with the fans as he walks to the next tee box.  Major Victories are all that really matters in this game.

Go ask any NFL pro, current or retired, what single achievement they would relish the most in the career.  If that Player is being honest that day, he will tell you that winning the Super Bowl, no matter how many times he's been awarded NFL Player of the year, or how many times he's been sent to the Pro-Bowl by the fans, or how quickly he got inducted into the Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio.  When you ask any IRL Driver what their most cherished moment would be in their racing career, every driver to a Man and to a Woman, will tell that no matter how many times they have lead the league in point total, their most cherished prize of all would be winning the Indianapolis 500, on a hot Sunday afternoon, with a bottle of Milk being poured down their back while standing in the cockpit at the winners circle.

Its all about the Championship in Professional Sports.  That is why they compete.  To be the best means being the Champion, and when you have won more Championships than anyone else around you, by definition - you have earned the right to be called the "Best."

I like Rory.  Don't get me wrong.  If Tiger, is not in the field and Rory, is playing, hands down - I am pulling for Rory.  If Tiger, is not in the field and both Rory and Phil, are in the tournament, then I'm split down the middle.  If Dustin Johnson, Rory McIlroy and Phil Michelson, are all in the field and Tiger, is not in the tournament - then I'm split three (3) from Sunday.

Clearly, I like a lot of other Players on Tour.  But, what Tiger, has done for the game, sport and the business of Golf worldwide, is not something that in good conscious I cannot just easily shake off, as if I'm removing a dirty pair of socks after a round of golf.  What Tiger, has done is nothing short of amazing and bewildering to many who play the game for a living.  He could lose every single tournament for the remainder of his career and still be considered the best man in the game, until Rory, or somebody else (Dustin Johnson, is another great potential talent) steps up and accomplished at least 50% of what Tiger has accomplished.  When that player gets to 75% of Tiger's accomplishments, then it think it would be appropriate to start the conversation about "passing the torch."

I remember what Staff Writers were saying about Tiger, when he first came on Tour.  They said right off the bat, right after his first few tournaments - that he "did not have the mental focus sufficient to ever win a Major Championship."  They wrote the Tiger, "did not have enough driving consistency to ever win a Major Championship."  They thought he was just another Jr. Golfing phenom, who would washout into the general population of the PGA Tour, never really being a "great golfer."  Boy, were those Sport Writers dead wrong in 1997. And, boy - are they dead wrong in 2012, counting Tiger out once again.  He's proven the critics wrong all his Professional Career, and he'll no doubt continue to do so.

As for Rory, I only hope that he rises to the level of a Tiger.  Two (2) Majors and four (4) total wins in a single year is an entire career for most PGA Tour Pros.  He's clearly the 2nd best man on the planet right now.  What he has done this year , is very Tiger-like.  Yet, Tiger, has done this and a lot more, for 15 straight years. And, that is what keeps his name at the top of the "Man to beat on Tour" list.

In fact, you can't even place Rory, ahead of either Phil, or Vjay, at this point.  They each have accomplishments that simply outweigh anything that Rory, has done this far.  Rory, needs more time under his belt.  He needs to feel the weight of having to be Number #1 in the world month after month, year after year.  He needs to feel what it means to have people expecting him to win every single time he tees it up (impossible).  He needs to have to deal with the high intensity spotlight that probes every aspect of his life since birth.  He needs to feel the same pressure that Tiger, has felt for his entire career on Tour.  Then after having still won, Rory, will have earned the right to be called "The man to beat on Tour."

Until such time, the media is simply looking to manufacture a rivalry and create controversy where absolutely none exists.

[StealthTrader]

Originally Posted by MSchott

I think you are overreacting. This is all about marketing and promotion for the TV Networks. They would be stupid not to promote the heck out of McIlroy right now. He's currently the best player in the world and the closest we have to the new Tiger. He's 23, has a gorgeous swing and is hot as hell at the moment. All they are doing is jumping on his back for a ride. To complain about hyperbole on network TV is akin to complaining about a company marketing their products with flowery prose.

They certainly are not denigrating or diminishing anything Tiger Woods has done.

What happens if Rory, does not meet such a lofty expectation?  Look at what they have done with Tiger, in their setting of wild expectations.  They have every golfing novice out there actually believing that Tiger, should or would win every time he tees it up and that's simply not fair.  You can't lay that kind of expectation on anyone Player's shoulders because it is a load that no one can possibly carry.

They are building up Rory, far too quickly and far to greatly.  Six (6) wins tour, even if two (2) of them are Majors - is not a regular tour tournament to major even ratio that anyone will ever be able to maintain forever and you would think that these people would understand that.  That's an effective 33% kill ratio.  So, for every six (6) tournament wins, these guys are setting him up to win two (2) majors.  Nine (9) wins next year, should equate to three (3) majors.  If he wins twelve (12) PGA Tour events next year, then by their own new definition of what it means to be "The Man on Tour," he'll have to win the Grand Slam of Golf.

Only Jack and Tiger, have done that respectively in a single 365 day period.

Lastly, when they say to the world that "This is the Best Golfer on the Planet," when the man with 103 professional wins and 14 major victories (I said 103 PGA Tour wins last time, that was in error) is sitting in the same room (figuratively speaking) then yes indeed, they are attempting to diminish what that man has accomplished.  However, they do it very foolishly - as the record speaks volumes for itself.

I knew this was going to happen.  After Tiger's personal life became front page news, there have been industry forces at play attempting to "replace" the face of golf.  I knew that if anybody were to simple have a back-to-back victory and one or two major wins in a single season (I did not care who it was when originally said this would happen two years ago), that they would use that Player as the air-apparent to Tiger Woods, regardless of how under qualified that Player's resume might be in the aggregate.  The fact that this Player just happened to be the new young gun that many people like and who is very talented, only made their decision to run with the storyline that much more likely.

I knew this would happen two years ago and I'm watching it unfold right now.  The only problem for these people is that Tiger...... well.... he's still Tiger and he still (I believe) wants to win Majors.

So, let's get this show on the road.  I can't wait for the Ryder Cup, when they put Tiger and Rory, together.  But, more importantly, I can't wait for the Masters next year even more.  I'm getting the distinct feeling that Tiger's game will be nicely tuned for Augusta, come 2013.  I don't know that Tiger, will ever win another British, given the course set-ups and his new swing.  However, his new swing set's up well for the Masters, PGA Championship and the U.S. Open, on just about any given course.  And, I would not at all be surprised if Championship #19 came at the Masters - and what a fitting moment that would be - tying it all together were it all began in 1997.  He's got a flare for the dramatic, so we shall see.

I don't expect much more strategic dominance that we've seen in the past.  But, I do expect to see a more tactical display of victories in critical tournaments.  That last U.S. Open at The Olympic Club in San Francisco.... there was no reason why Tiger, could not have won that event.  His putter let him down big time and that needs to be addressed.  Quite frankly, I would like to be the one to get Tiger, to consider making a move BACK to his game winning putter.  He never putted better and he never putted more smoothly.  He's having too much difficulty fighting with this new putting and keeping in online.

As far as his driving goes, he's driving either as good or better than he ever has.  He's never been the most accurate driver for any consistent stretch of time, but he's always had the best second shots into greens from any distance and any lie, than anyone in the modern game, followed by some of the best putting by anyone in the modern game.  That's what won all those Major Tournaments.  The problem as I see it, is his new approach to lagging the club head behind his hands before impact.  His bowing of the left wrist is what's causing even more compressing of the golf ball, but it is also causing problems with distance control.

Tiger, has always concluded that trajectory controls distance .  He always used to say that, in nearly every interview he gave when he was asked about his iron play.  He's lacking trajectory control right now and that is because of the new approach to the down-swing.  He's compressing the ball better and thus hitting the ball greater distances with his irons, but the control factor in the flight of the ball, is missing something critical and that causes these shot we now see to either come up far too short of the whole, or too far beyond the hole .  Something we never used to see from Tiger, in years past.

He used to talk about how difficult it was to "flick the wrist" with consistent accuracy.  Yet that's closer to what he's doing right now, than where he was with Butch Harmon.  That bowing action, which allows for a longer sustained "L-Position" before impact, is the thing that is causing him difficulty right now.

Try it at home.  Go out to the range an intentionally hold-off the unhinging of your wrist-cock to extend the duration of the L-Position before impact.  Once you learn how to hit the golf ball that way, it will send your ball further in the air naturally.  However, you will also notice difficult with Distance Control .  Then, leave the range and go out and try to play with that same delayed L-Position before impact and take note how wild your distance control will be into greens.

This is one of the most critical elements in his swing changes that he's trying to negotiate to a resolution right now with his body.  With that kind of swing, you do hit the ball further, but you also have to have near perfect timing in releasing your club head and allowing your wrists to roll over through the contact zone.  He's Tiger Woods, so if he decides to stick with this new swing, he will figure out a method that he can use in tournament play.  This will put him closer to the hole on average (within 25 feet) and give him more realistic looks at birdie more often.  That one thing alone will put him back on top of the leader board in most tournaments he enters.

But, to win outright by multiple stroke like he used to, he's going to have to make final decision about his putter.  And, quite frankly, I do not like this new putter.  I contacts the ball higher on the equator than his last putter and that is causing inconsistency in speed modulation .  He's not modulating his speed anywhere near as consistently as he used to, when his putter made contact with the equator of the ball at a lower position.  That meant that he was putting either level with the equator, or fractionally up and through the ball from below the equator.  Today, he's either putting at the equator, or down and through the ball, which is causing the variations in ball speed through the spin rate.  Its like pitching a knuckleball in baseball - the initial spin rate is different, and therefore the speed to the target is different .

No doubt, he knows all about these problems and is working on a solution.  No different than any Engineer, who knows about key technical problems in their design and seeks a solution to fix them.

Second shots into greens (using trajectory to control distance given the more acute L-Postion before impact) and putting speed (getting the putter lower on the equator to control spin rate).  That's all he needs to fix with the new swing.  Once that is done, hello 19th Major.

[StealthTrader]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Umm, don't know where folks are getting Tiger's B-game.  Tiger posted 7 of his last 8 rounds in the 60s, including 6-straight, and 8 straight rounds under par.  He hasn't had a streak of golf that good since, well, 2009, when he was POY, Vardon, and just about every other thing on the PGA Tour except a major champion.

You would think, given those facts, that he would have wone both of the last two events.  But he didn't.  Rory did.

Posting rounds in the 60's don't always speak to the game that got you there.  Tiger, has not even had his B- game over the past two years in the aggregate.  He's been playing for a while time with a developmental game designed to take pressure off his lower extremities in order to prolong his playing career - a smart move.  This has lead to output of no more than C+ to B-, most of the time and only flashing spurts up to what might be called a Tiger A- game.  He has not played his A, or A+ golf in nearly two years.

Too many boogies on the score card in places where you never saw that many of them before.  Flashes of brilliance being separated by more developmental swing changes and a new putter that simply needs to be put into the waste can, coupled with a revived relationship with his old putter.

Rory, is a very good player, he's not great yet - he's working on that.  Rory, has caught Tiger, at a point in time in his career, where changes are taking longer to set into place and one bad strategic decision (the move to the new putter) has caused an opening where challenging Tiger, during his period of lower output in performance is more plausible than it was before.  This should not however, be mistaken for some kind of new paradigm shift in professional golf, where Tiger, simply fades into the sunset.

As I said, trajectory control is Tiger's number one fix-it-ticket for now, followed by a much needed re-union with his older, time and battle tested putter.  Once those two things are rectified, you will start to see a more consistent ball flight that resembles his older B+ to A game, which will be good for up to 5 to 8 regular wins per year, including 0-2 majors per year.  That will put him back on track for reaching Jack's record well before retirement age.

We won't be seeing Tiger Woods, on the Champions Tour.  That much is for certain.  He's got about 10 years remaining to win essentially five (5) more Majors.  Something that statistically is very likely to happen, regardless of who is in the field.

[FarWest]

Thread Starter, without going into quite as much detail as you I'd like to address a couple of issues you raised.  Your contention that all those who are crowning Rory as the best golfer in the world are suffering either from the side effects of drug abuse or hatred of Tiger is bizarre.  I'm one of those who believes that Rory is the best golfer in the world at this moment in time, an opinion supported by every available stat - world rankings, money lists, 2012 win record, and anything else you might care to mention - and I can assure you that I am neither a drug abuser or Tiger hater.  I do lack objectivity somewhat  because he's Irish - well sort of - and I've watched him play since his early teens, but that lack of objectivity is offset by the existence of very hard facts, as above.

Tiger, in my opinion, is the greatest golfer ever, greater even than Jack, and is close to returning to his best, but he is not currently at Rory's level, again a view supported by facts.  He might well get back to his previous best, but, given his age and injury record, that is by no means inevitable.  In fact if he wasn't Tiger Woods its unlikely that we'd even consider the possibility that a golfer of his age and injury record could hope to refind his previous level of form.   If he is to become the world's no. 1 he will have to get past McIlroy, and given his record over the last two years its highly unlikely that Rory will be standing still.  In fact, the way he recovered from the Masters debacle, the way he has addressed issues in his game like putting, the way he addressed his career path by getting rid of Chandler, all suggest that he is a focussed and decisive, indeed ruthless, guy who has no intention of sitting back and congratulating himself.  None of this means that he will definitely become a true great of the game, but his record to date, two majors at 23 to match Jack and Tiger, and the manner of the two major wins, would suggest that he is a different phenomenon to others who have been given the title of "Next Great Thing" in the last 20 years,.  He has backed up his potential with real achievements, and this is what is so exciting about him, and, while some of the coverage has been over the top, it is by no means outrageous to consider the possibility that he could actually be the "Next Great Thing.

It should also be remembered that the hype that accompanies Rory now also played a part in the building of Tiger's image, and his subsequent impact on the game, when he joined the professionl ranks, and, like Rory, he gave substance to the hype by actually going out and winning tournaments.  You can't compare Rory with the likes of Sergio or even Phil, because the only people who had comparable records at his age were Jack and Tiger.  Therefore, the hype is not just understandable, but inevitable.

[MSchott]

Stealth Trader, IMO you are getting way too worked up about this. I didn't read all of your recent posts but once again this is the networks trying to drum up viewership and excitement. That's all it is. Nothing more. If Tiger gets hotter and wins majors, you can bet they will be all over him once again as the best in the game.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Umm, don't know where folks are getting Tiger's B-game.  Tiger posted 7 of his last 8 rounds in the 60s, including 6-straight, and 8 straight rounds under par.  He hasn't had a streak of golf that good since, well, 2009, when he was POY, Vardon, and just about every other thing on the PGA Tour except a major champion.

You would think, given those facts, that he would have wone both of the last two events.  But he didn't.  Rory did.

Originally Posted by StealthTrader

Posting rounds in the 60's don't always speak to the game that got you there.  Tiger, has not even had his B- game over the past two years in the aggregate.  He's been playing for a while time with a developmental game designed to take pressure off his lower extremities in order to prolong his playing career - a smart move.  This has lead to output of no more than C+ to B-, most of the time and only flashing spurts up to what might be called a Tiger A- game.  He has not played his A, or A+ golf in nearly two years.

As I said, trajectory control is Tiger's number one fix-it-ticket for now, followed by a much needed re-union with his older, time and battle tested putter.  Once those two things are rectified, you will start to see a more consistent ball flight that resembles his older B+ to A game, which will be good for up to 5 to 8 regular wins per year, including 0-2 majors per year.  That will put him back on track for reaching Jack's record well before retirement age.

http://www.pgatour.com/golfers/008793/tiger-woods/season/#uber

You can post 5,000 word essays, or you could simply look at some stats.  In 2009 Tiger won six times.  Only once that year did he play two consecutive tournaments with 7 rounds in the 60s:  the 2009 BMW and Tour Championship during the playoffs.  He finished those two events 1, 2.  The last time he did it before that was 2007, when he played 3 straight events without posting a score in the 70s.  Guess what--he won all of those events too.

The same stretch of great golf netted him Zero wins this year, because Rory played better.  To me, that says that Tiger put up his A game, but was beaten by someone who played better.  And not someone who played better for one round, or one week.  Rory beat him two weeks in a row, by 5 shots.

[Zwick]

Rory played some of the best golf of his life in the last month (according to himself), Woods played some good golf. So McIlroys' best game is slightly better (5 shots over 144 holes) than Woods' above average game. Does that mean that Woods will dominate again or that McIlroy can't up his game? Of course not... It's pretty obvious that McIlroy was the best player in the last month, but the two months before that he was probably the worst top10 golfer. Short term results don't predict longterm success.

While I can't predict the future, I'm pretty sure McIlroy won't win 75% of all the tournaments from now on (like last month), he's just riding a huge momentum. That doesn't mean he won't win 4 times again next year (I actually think he will), but he surely isn't clearly better than Woods.

But why shouldn't the media jump on his bandwaggon? That's what they always do (see Bubba). If Woods wins the Masters you can bet they will praise him as the greatest again.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Zwick

Rory played some of the best golf of his life in the last month (according to himself), Woods played some good golf. So McIlroys' best game is slightly better (5 shots over 144 holes) than Woods' above average game. Does that mean that Woods will dominate again or that McIlroy can't up his game? Of course not... It's pretty obvious that McIlroy was the best player in the last month, but the two months before that he was probably the worst top10 golfer. Short term results don't predict longterm success.

While I can't predict the future, I'm pretty sure McIlroy won't win 75% of all the tournaments from now on (like last month), he's just riding a huge momentum. That doesn't mean he won't win 4 times again next year (I actually think he will), but he surely isn't clearly better than Woods.

But why shouldn't the media jump on his bandwaggon? That's what they always do (see Bubba). If Woods wins the Masters you can bet they will praise him as the greatest again.

Based on the past 3 seasons of golf, Tiger just played his best golf this month. Do we know that Rory did?

[Wally Fairway]

Let me summarize:

Arnie was the best; then Jack was the best; then Norman was the best; then Tiger was the best......so is this a debate that the title hasn't yet passed?

Because I'm reading some of the posts as if Tiger will be the best forever....but someday there will be a best (not best ever, just the best player currently on tour)....so the media is saying it is now Rory - that really isn't something to get your panties all twisted about.

People should celebrate that there is someone challenging for the title of Best player in Golf - otherwise sport is dying off as players, no matter how dominant, will age and become less and less of a factor in tour event.

OK carry on:

Rory vs. Tiger

Tiger vs. Jack

Belly putter vs. traditional putter

Pebble - worth $500 or not

[Zwick]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Based on the past 3 seasons of golf, Tiger just played his best golf this month. Do we know that Rory did?

Rory said he played some of his best golf he ever played this past month, don't know if that's enough for you?

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Zwick

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Based on the past 3 seasons of golf, Tiger just played his best golf this month. Do we know that Rory did?

Rory said he played some of his best golf he ever played this past month, don't know if that's enough for you?

Oh . . . "some of" his best. I'll give you that. Still waiting for the part where Tiger refutes his best golf in years this past month.

[FarWest]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Oh . . . "some of" his best. I'll give you that. Still waiting for the part where Tiger refutes his best golf in years this past month.

I thought McIlroy's performance on Sunday was close to flawless, especially given the quality of the leaderboard and how compacted it was.  The manner in which he constructed his score and gave the other players no errors to encourage them was hugely impressive, and quite Tiger like.  However his play on Friday and Saturday, after an excellent display on Thursday, while flawed in terms of ball striking, was probably more heartening because in the past he'd have probably played himself out of the tournament.  As he said after Saturday's round, he turned a 76 into a 68.  In the past he'd have probably turned a 76 into a 79, given how poorly he was striking the ball, and how quickly he let his head drop when things went against him.  I think the last two weeks, because he certainly didn't play his best at the Deutsche Bank, show a growing maturity and a rare ability on Tour to win without playing his best.   Given his recent rate of improvement Tiger will undoubtedly play better than he did last week, and I think he'll need to against the new improved Rory, because he's showing similar rates of improvement in my opinion, and he's starting from a higher base.

[goob3r]

Originally Posted by Zwick

Rory said he played some of his best golf he ever played this past month, don't know if that's enough for you?

If I'm remembering correctly, he said almost the exact same thing when he was around seven years old. I'm pretty sure he's better now than he was then, so I think it's possible he can play better in the future than he is currently.

[colin007]

i keep saying this, but the difference between Rory and Tiger the past few weeks (those 5 shots) has been how tiger played the par 5s.  tiger cannot get it done if he is parring the par 5s.  simple as that.  and i really dont understand it...the par 5s should be an automatic birdie most of the time for eldrick.  so disappointing...

[birdyfest]

without looking up a bunch of stats, i can almost say for certain tiger isn't as good as he used to be in putting, distance control and proximity to hole on approach.  put those things together and he's playing with his B game.  the other thing that only insiders know is how much is tiger actually practicing?  life happens, kids happen, priorities change.

[ThominOH]

Being the best is all relative to the time.. Comparing athletes from one generation to another, or even from one team to another is just silly drama.. YES, Some sports stars are better then others, but when it comes to the elite players, it's all subjective BS.. Such as golf.. Did Tiger, Rory or Phil have to deal with life during the depression? or thru WW2?  NO.. We have no clue how any of today's stars would of been without their swing coaches, and technology advancements. Not all things are equal in sports current, past or between generations.. Debating about who is the best is like arguing over which color or food is the best.. It's just opinions.. nothing more..

[Beachcomber]

Cool video Oakley did on RORS....