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Johnny Miller on Davis Love's pics: "Historically we suck in The Ryder Cup"


mvmac
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Originally Posted by k-troop View Post

Mahan has a better Ryder Cup record than anyone on this year's team.  It's a shame that all folks remember is the duffed chip.

and he won the Match Play title this year, but he has just not played well recently with 2 missed cuts and a dead last his 4 past events.

Assuming that you think Johnny Miller is right about wanting new faces and DLIII is right about wanting hot players, who would you pick?

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Originally Posted by k-troop

Mahan has a better Ryder Cup record than anyone on this year's team.  It's a shame that all folks remember is the duffed chip.

One element in being a successful match play player is consistency. Another element is being able to make birdies in bunches and to play with a certain bravado - matching the other player's great shot with one of your own. Mahan did flub that shot, but he's made some great clutch shots since then. Guys like Seve and Tom Watson (for example) could play consistently but they're best known for getting up and down from all over the place. Often for birdie. Did anyone else enjoy Fowler's great finish in that one match last time around? I did. Would Rickie Fowler ever be considered consistent? What about Ian Poulter?

Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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Originally Posted by MEfree

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop

Mahan has a better Ryder Cup record than anyone on this year's team.  It's a shame that all folks remember is the duffed chip.

and he won the Match Play title this year, but he has just not played well recently with 2 missed cuts and a dead last his 4 past events.

Assuming that you think Johnny Miller is right about wanting new faces and DLIII is right about wanting hot players, who would you pick?

I have no beef with the picks.  I think Furyk was a smart choice; I'm skeptical about Webb and Brandt, but we'll see--not arguing that they don't deserve to be there, but those are the ones I'm skeptical about.

My comment about Hunter is that he's been a good Ryder Cup player, and I think he has an affinity for match play.  He gets a lot of heat for the duffed chip, but he's still the only player in the conversation this year with above a 0.5 points/match average.

Kevin

Titleist 910 D3 9.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Titleist 910F 13.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Adams Idea A12 Pro hybrid 18*; 23* with RIP S flex
Titleist 712 AP2 4-9 iron with KBS C-Taper, S+ flex
Titleist Vokey SM wedges 48*, 52*, 58*
Odyssey White Hot 2-ball mallet, center shaft, 34"

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Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by mvmac

Johnny Miller Quote:

I'm not a big believer in doing anything historical, because historically, we suck in The Ryder Cup.  I like new blood...

I don't know if you can do anything historically.  People say, you have to pick people with experience; I don't want a guy on my team with losing experience.  I'd rather have a guy that's fresh and says I'm going to win.

I like the young blood personally.  I like it when the young guys sometimes get paired together instead of throwing them in with a veteran that's lost five straight Ryder Cups.

Originally Posted by k-troop

Luke Donald is a great match player because he's a great putter, and he knows that he has a great chance to get down in 2 from anywhere within 100 yards.  It can be demoralizing for a bomber to outdrive your opponent by 50 yards on every hole, but still have a longer putt.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

One element in being a successful match play player is consistency. Another element is being able to make birdies in bunches and to play with a certain bravado - matching the other player's great shot with one of your own. Mahan did flub that shot, but he's made some great clutch shots since then. Guys like Seve and Tom Watson (for example) could play consistently but they're best known for getting up and down from all over the place. Often for birdie. Did anyone else enjoy Fowler's great finish in that one match last time around? I did. Would Rickie Fowler ever be considered consistent? What about Ian Poulter?

Young, New Blood, Putting Great, Consistent High Finishes and Making a lot of Birdies?  How about Luke Guthrie ?

Who you say?  Turned pro this year and has a 68.33 PGA Tour scoring average and a 67.45 ave on the Web.com Tour.  Would lead the PGA Tour in "Strokes Gained Putting,"  "Par Breakers," "Scoring Average," "Scrambling," and a number of other categories if he had enough rounds to qualify.

Is 120 under par as a pro (3 PGA Tour events and 6.5 Web.com events): t19, t5, t18 on PGA Tour followed by P2, t3, t10, t6, cut and a win on the Web.com Tour.

:mizuno: MP-52 5-PW, :cobra: King Snake 4 i 
:tmade: R11 Driver, 3 W & 5 W, :vokey: 52, 56 & 60 wedges
:seemore: putter

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Originally Posted by MEfree

Young, New Blood, Putting Great, Consistent High Finishes and Making a lot of Birdies?  How about Luke Guthrie?

Who you say?  Turned pro this year and has a 68.33 PGA Tour scoring average and a 67.45 ave on the Web.com Tour.  Would lead the PGA Tour in "Strokes Gained Putting,"  "Par Breakers," "Scoring Average," "Scrambling," and a number of other categories if he had enough rounds to qualify.

Is 120 under par as a pro (3 PGA Tour events and 6.5 Web.com events): t19, t5, t18 on PGA Tour followed by P2, t3, t10, t6, cut and a win on the Web.com Tour.

Sorry, no way you pick someone for the Ryder Cup who has played 9 professional tournaments.

Kevin

Titleist 910 D3 9.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Titleist 910F 13.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Adams Idea A12 Pro hybrid 18*; 23* with RIP S flex
Titleist 712 AP2 4-9 iron with KBS C-Taper, S+ flex
Titleist Vokey SM wedges 48*, 52*, 58*
Odyssey White Hot 2-ball mallet, center shaft, 34"

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Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by k-troop

Sorry, no way you pick someone for the Ryder Cup who has played 9 professional tournaments.

I understand what you are saying BUT a lot of people were critical of picking LPGA rookie Ryann O'Toole for the 2011 Solheim Cup for the same reason, but she was playing well at the time and she went 2-0-2 getting 3 points in the 4 matches she played.  Had the Ryder Cup been held in 1996, do you think Tiger would have been a bad pick?

:mizuno: MP-52 5-PW, :cobra: King Snake 4 i 
:tmade: R11 Driver, 3 W & 5 W, :vokey: 52, 56 & 60 wedges
:seemore: putter

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Originally Posted by MEfree

I understand what you are saying BUT a lot of people were critical of picking LPGA rookie Ryann O'Toole for the 2011 Solheim Cup for the same reason, but she was playing well at the time and she went 2-0-2 getting 3 points in the 4 matches she played.  Had the Ryder Cup been held in 1996, do you think Tiger would have been a bad pick?

Tough call.  I'd venture to say that Tiger wouldn't have been picked in 1996--he turned pro in August, so he would have played like 1 or 2 events before they made the picks.  Of course he won twice in October 1996, so I'm sure he would have done well if picked, but no one expected that in August/September.  Sticking straight to the comparison, Tiger would have been an obvious pick after 9 events, because he already had at least 2 PGA Tour wins at that point.

Regardless, Tiger is Tiger.  Jack would have been a great pick in 1960, and Phil in 1993, but comparing Luke Guthrie to Tiger, Jack and Phil is beyond absurd.  The odds are certainly not in favor of the next flash rookie being a 50-win tour star.

Kevin

Titleist 910 D3 9.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Titleist 910F 13.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Adams Idea A12 Pro hybrid 18*; 23* with RIP S flex
Titleist 712 AP2 4-9 iron with KBS C-Taper, S+ flex
Titleist Vokey SM wedges 48*, 52*, 58*
Odyssey White Hot 2-ball mallet, center shaft, 34"

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Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by k-troop

Regardless, Tiger is Tiger.  Jack would have been a great pick in 1960, and Phil in 1993, but comparing Luke Guthrie to Tiger, Jack and Phil is beyond absurd.  The odds are certainly not in favor of the next flash rookie being a 50-win tour star.

I agree, but I expect Guthrie to be at least as good as Ryann O'Toole and she was a successful captain`s pick.  Probably not the next Tiger or Jack, but with his current short game, Gutherie could develop into a Luke Donald type player...As far as Phil goes, I think they passed him over in 1993 despite the fact that he had already won twice on Tour that year (and once as an Am in 1991), must have been his lack of experience...

:mizuno: MP-52 5-PW, :cobra: King Snake 4 i 
:tmade: R11 Driver, 3 W & 5 W, :vokey: 52, 56 & 60 wedges
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guthrie-luke-625-1.jpg
Stan Badz/PGA TOUR
Luke Guthrie won for the second consecutive week at the WNB Golf Classic.
Sep. 23, 2012
By Joe Chemycz, Web.com Tour staff

MIDLAND, Texas -- Luke Guthrie will be going to the Ryder Cup next week in Chicago as a spectator. Given his play in the past couple of months, United States Captain Davis Love III might want him to join the squad as a playing member.

http://www.pgatour.com/2012/tournaments/h038/09/23/rd4-recap/index.html#

:mizuno: MP-52 5-PW, :cobra: King Snake 4 i 
:tmade: R11 Driver, 3 W & 5 W, :vokey: 52, 56 & 60 wedges
:seemore: putter

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Originally Posted by MEfree

Luke Guthrie won for the second consecutive week at the WNB Golf Classic.

Sep. 23, 2012

By Joe Chemycz, Web.com Tour staff

MIDLAND, Texas -- Luke Guthrie will be going to the Ryder Cup next week in Chicago as a spectator. Given his play in the past couple of months, United States Captain Davis Love III might want him to join the squad as a playing member.

http://www.pgatour.com/2012/tournaments/h038/09/23/rd4-recap/index.html#

Sorry, but no, just no. If anyone's play on the weekend deserved Ryder Cup second guesses it was Ryan Moore.

Is anyone else opening this thread waiting for a link to DLIII's Ryder Cup photo album?

Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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Originally Posted by sean_miller

Sorry, but no, just no. If anyone's play on the weekend deserved Ryder Cup second guesses it was Ryan Moore.

Is anyone else opening this thread waiting for a link to DLIII's Ryder Cup photo album?

Too late to make changes now anyways...I like Ryan Moore, but he and Guthrie are very comparable in their last 10 events, at least from an Official World Golf Rankings standpoint with Guthrie beating Moore in the only event they both played and earning slightly more total points than Moore.

Ryan Moore- Last 10 Events Tour Week Year Finish OWGR Points
TOUR Championship by Coca-Cola http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
38
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T3
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
21.70
BMW Championship http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
36
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T10
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
9.45
Deutsche Bank Championship http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
35
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T10
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
9.99
The Barclays http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
34
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T24
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
3.46
Wyndham Championship http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
33
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T37
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
1.43
US PGA CHAMPIONSHIP http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
32
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
MC
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
0.00
John Deere Classic http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
28
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T8
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
5.04
AT&T; National http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
26
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T58
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
0.00
Travelers Championship http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
25
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T47
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
1.21
the Memorial Tournament presented by Nationwide Insurance http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
22
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T38
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2.28
54.56
Luke Gurthrie- Last 10 Events
WNB Golf Classic http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
Nat
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
38
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
1
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
14.00
Albertsons Boise Open Presented by Kraft http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
Nat
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
37
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
1
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
14.00
Mylan Classic http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
Nat
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
35
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
MC
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
0.00
Midwest Classic Presented by Cadillac http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
Nat
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
33
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T6
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2.66
Price Cutter Charity Championship Presented by Dr Pepper http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
Nat
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
32
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T10
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
1.89
Cox Classic http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
Nat
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
31
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T3
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
3.99
Nationwide Children's Hospital Invitational http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
Nat
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
30
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
8.40
True South Classic http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
29
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T18
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
1.80
John Deere Classic http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
28
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T5
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
7.92
FedEx St. Jude Classic http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
USA
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
23
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2012
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
T19
http://www.owgr.com/pix/1.gif
2.24
56.90

:mizuno: MP-52 5-PW, :cobra: King Snake 4 i 
:tmade: R11 Driver, 3 W & 5 W, :vokey: 52, 56 & 60 wedges
:seemore: putter

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Originally Posted by MEfree 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller 

Sorry, but no, just no. If anyone's play on the weekend deserved Ryder Cup second guesses it was Ryan Moore.

 

Is anyone else opening this thread waiting for a link to DLIII's Ryder Cup photo album?

Too late to make changes now anyways...I like Ryan Moore, but he and Guthrie are very comparable in their last 10 events, at least from an Official World Golf Rankings standpoint with Guthrie beating Moore in the only event they both played and earning slightly more total points than Moore.

 

 

Ryan Moore- Last 10 Events

Tour

Week

Year

Finish

OWGR Points

TOUR Championship by Coca-Cola 

 USA 

38 

 2012 

 T3 

21.70

 BMW Championship 

 USA 

36 

 2012 

 T10 

9.45

 Deutsche Bank Championship 

 USA 

35 

 2012 

 T10 

9.99

 The Barclays 

 USA 

34 

 2012 

 T24 

3.46

 Wyndham Championship 

 USA 

33 

 2012 

 T37 

1.43

 US PGA CHAMPIONSHIP 

 USA 

32 

 2012 

 MC 

0.00

 John Deere Classic 

 USA 

28 

 2012 

 T8 

5.04

 AT&T National 

 USA 

26 

 2012 

 T58 

0.00

 Travelers Championship 

 USA 

25 

 2012 

 T47 

1.21

 the Memorial Tournament presented by Nationwide Insurance 

 USA 

22 

 2012 

 T38 

2.28

 

 

 

 

 

54.56

 

 

 

 

 

 

Luke Gurthrie- Last 10 Events

 

 

 

 

 

 WNB Golf Classic 

 Nat 

38 

 2012 

 1 

14.00

 Albertsons Boise Open Presented by Kraft 

 Nat 

37 

 2012 

 1 

14.00

 Mylan Classic 

 Nat 

35 

 2012 

 MC 

0.00

 Midwest Classic Presented by Cadillac 

 Nat 

33 

 2012 

 T6 

2.66

 Price Cutter Charity Championship Presented by Dr Pepper 

 Nat 

32 

 2012 

 T10 

1.89

 Cox Classic 

 Nat 

31 

 2012 

 T3 

3.99

 Nationwide Children's Hospital Invitational 

 Nat 

30 

 2012 

 2 

8.40

 True South Classic 

 USA 

29 

 2012 

 T18 

1.80

 John Deere Classic 

 USA 

28 

 2012 

 T5 

7.92

 FedEx St. Jude Classic 

 USA 

23 

 2012 

 T19 

2.24

 

 

 

 

 

56.90

To be honest I didn't read the list beyond the past 4 weeks. Moore >> Guthrie this past month, but to be super duper honest, as a Canadian I don't really have a horse in this race. Carry on with your internet Guthrie for president campaign.

Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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