2012 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

wow................just wow. It's Attitude that makes hitting shots/putts possible. Go in thinking you can't and you never will.

Being gracious comes AFTER the last putt is struck. No hunger = no victory.

We are not going to agree but it's not attitude like dissing your opponent that makes shots possible. If attitude is confidence then I agree but you are talking about sportsmanship which has absolutely nothing to do with hitting a golf shot. Being gracious does not equal a lack of hunger. Never has, never will. There is no way that Phil being kind to Rose had anything to do with Rose making great birdies and Phil pars.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Chas

If 'attitude" doesn't win, or help to win, golf matches - or any other competitive sport for that matter - then why do all coaches work on the attitude of their team at every opportunity during a tournament?  According to you, they don't know what they're doing.

If you polled professional golfers, I suspect that almost all of them would agree with the notion that "attitude is a significant factor in whether a player wins or loses a competition".  Somehow I don't think you'd be fit to manage/coach any sort of competitive event in just about any sport.  But that's OK - I assume you aren't a coach in any sport ..... are you?

But I agree with you about Michelson's sporting gesture to Rose - we need MORE OF THAT in golf, not less.  There are some (not you of course) who think that such behavior is inconsistent with having the strongest willl to win (i.e. the most competitive "attitude").  Ridiculous.

Phil:  you showed real class again yesterday.  Pity there aren't more like you in professional golf.

Individual sports are different in this regard than team sports. Perhaps this is an argument about semantics. I'm not talking about confidence I'm talking about attitude towards your competitor in a match play situation. Treating them with disdain or kindness doesn't have a thing to do with you hitting a golf shot. That's about your own confidence and ability. You can treat your opponent nicely and still hit great shots.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by Joakim

Would Poulter, Mcilroy or any of EURO team applaud their competitor giving them extra confidence in the middle of a match? I've never seen that happen during play. Also, Sat. he whined that he and Keegan couldnt play 4th match. He's old but Keegan with Tiger instead of SS would have given US 11-5 lead. DL3 is the captain and he let a spoiled whinning proven Ryder loser make stupid decisions. SS stinks, Tiger had the best score over first two days if Tour play. Losers, #1 DL3, #2 PM, #3, SS & JF.

The concept that a player gets extra confidence from his opponent applauding is totally bogus. I think Rose was pretty much at max confidence to hole the putt in the first place.

You're also assuming that Tiger wouldn't have pulled Keegan down to his level, certainly no guarantee of a win.

Bogus?????????

Would Michael Jordan applaud his opponent hits a 3 pointer with 30 seconds left? In what sport have you ever seen someone applaud b4 you have won or lost???? Winners get mad and wants to smash their opponent. Also, when you applaud it changes the dynamic of the fans. BTW, Keegan said he definately would want to play with Tiger. DL3 was right about one thing, PM is a smart guy and knows how to pick his partners, he's always had his pick of players in all Ryders.

Pull TW down to his level??? He would have been leading score of all US team after 2nd day. TW is rated 2nd best in the world this year.

[Lefty-Golfer]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Interesting.  Not at all what I remembered hearing on NBC on Saturday, but that wouldn't be the first time that something was reported wrong, or it could have just been me hearing wrong.  (Wouldn't be the first time for that either)  Either way, that only changes it a little for me.  I would tend to agree with you that he shouldn't have been tired and should have been able to go out there again, if asked.  However, I still say that it is better for him to be honest to his captain and his team and if he thinks he's too tired to perform, then say so.  It's not like our other options are bad golfers.  It would be worse (to me) for him to lie and say he's ready while a rested and ready to go Dustin Johnson/Matt Kuchar team (or whichever team they were to replace) sits on the bench and watches.

Why?  These discussions are what makes this forum fun.

at some point we all go into information overload during these events. i read it today on the iphone app...who knows what is the correct number but i am not going to do enough checking to confirm!!

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by Joakim

Bogus?????????

Would Michael Jordan applaud his opponent hits a 3 pointer with 30 seconds left? In what sport have you ever seen someone applaud b4 you have won or lost???? Winners get mad and wants to smash their opponent. Also, when you applaud it changes the dynamic of the fans. BTW, Keegan said he definately would want to play with Tiger. DL3 was right about one thing, PM is a smart guy and knows how to pick his partners, he's always had his pick of players in all Ryders.

Pull TW down to his level??? He would have been leading score of all US team after 2nd day. TW is rated 2nd best in the world this year.

Don't know about Jordan never really followed basketball. I've certainly seen noted losers Nadal and Federer appreciate each others shots mid match.

How you react to your opponents varies from sport to sport, what's good for basketball doesn't necessarily translate to golf or other sports. I don't think anything Phil did (apart from hit the ball) would have had any effect on Rose. He was at max already and totally focused on his own game.

My point about Tiger was tongue in cheek. I think he is getting away lightly compared to Stricker and Furyk who have been out of form, as you say Tiger has been the second  best player this year, you'd expect more than half a point from him.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Golfer

at some point we all go into information overload during these events. i read it today on the iphone app...who knows what is the correct number but i am not going to do enough checking to confirm!!

Probably one includes Euros one doesnt. We used to burn out our top layers because the drop off was so large. We'd regularly have 4 or 5 players do all the sessions and then fall off the cliff/run into a very good/on form American.

[Zeph]

[Monte the Bear]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Of course they had fun.  They won 8 points on Sunday and completed the biggest comeback in RC history by an away team.  The Euros didn't look like they were having too much fun Friday and Saturday, if I recall, whereas the Americans looked pretty damn happy.

Strange. In Poulter's interviews, he said that on Saturday night the locker room was buzzing - it felt like a 10-6 draw, I think, were his words.

I'm not sure some of your players relish this tournament as much as Europe does, because I think the need to win is so great, Maybe let that go, free your mind and your ass will follow. I dunno.

[Monte the Bear]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

Don't know about Jordan never really followed basketball. I've certainly seen noted losers Nadal and Federer appreciate each others shots mid match.

How you react to your opponents varies from sport to sport, what's good for basketball doesn't necessarily translate to golf or other sports. I don't think anything Phil did (apart from hit the ball) would have had any effect on Rose. He was at max already and totally focused on his own game.

My point about Tiger was tongue in cheek. I think he is getting away lightly compared to Stricker and Furyk who have been out of form, as you say Tiger has been the second  best player this year, you'd expect more than half a point from him.

Good point, quite why no-one is ragging on Snedeker for a complete choke against a European journeyman, and ragging on Webb Simpson for shanking a ball I don't know. At least Simpson has a major though and Snedeker...well he's got a few quid to play with in the off season.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Joakim

Bogus?????????

Would Michael Jordan applaud his opponent hits a 3 pointer with 30 seconds left? In what sport have you ever seen someone applaud b4 you have won or lost???? Winners get mad and wants to smash their opponent. Also, when you applaud it changes the dynamic of the fans.

Like Wanstead said ... happens in tennis all the time after an impressive point.  Doesn't make them "losers" by any means.  Basketball is not a good comparison because you're all playing at the same time, but in sports where you are standing around doing nothing, yeah it happens.  Besides the aforementioned tennis ... in baseball sometimes a batter will applaud a fielder for making a miraculous play.  In football, guys congratulate their opponents after a good play all the time.

Regarding the bold ... why can't it be both?  To me, a winner, or a real competitor, whatever you want to call them, is somebody that wants to be the best by beating the best when they are playing their best.  You want to see them do something good, and THEN smash them.  (I crossed out "gets mad" because I don't buy that.  Real winners do not get mad because their opponents play well, they focus and play better)

I would have had a lot of fun in Tiger's position Friday afternoon by playing so well I had to force Colsaerts to shoot -10 just to beat me by one stroke.  (A lot more fun than, say, Keegan Bradley would've had by beating Rory yesterday had he not gotten that police escort and had to forfeit)

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by Monte the Bear

Good point, quite why no-one is ragging on Snedeker for a complete choke against a European journeyman, and ragging on Webb Simpson for shanking a ball I don't know. At least Simpson has a major though and Snedeker...well he's got a few quid to play with in the off season.

Because the Lawrie was 6 under thru 15 holes and that's hard to live with.

I don't get the lack of respect Lawrie gets. He has 8 wins on tour, the same as McDowell who is apparently one of Europe's corner stones. One is a cheeky chappy Irishman the other is a dour Scot - okay I do get it now.

[jimdandy]

1) Davis: Worst coach/leader in Ryder Cup history .

Tiger, Phil, Zack, Keegan, and Dufner HAVE TO LEAD OFF . If they get swept, we don't deserve the Cup.

Bubba and Simpson leading off!? Really Davis?

2) Furyk: Biggest choker of ALL TIME! His entire routine and rhythm is completely thrown off when pressured. Who looks over two 8 foot putts for 10 minutes each!??

3) Stricker: 2nd biggest choker of ALL TIME! Another terrible selection.

He looked like a deer caught in headlights out there. Not guts whatsoever.

4) PHIL PHIL PHIL! He just doesn't get heads up, Ryder Cup competition. You never applaud your opponent. You put fear, as best you can, into your opponent. There was no way he was winning 18. NEVER! He conceded to Rose on 16 and 17 by clapping, thumbs up, and that stupid goofy smile. There was NO FIRE whatsoever in him. NONE!

NEXT RYDER CUP... No Phil, Stricker, Furyk, and Davis. Please! Not one has any guts!

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

Don't know about Jordan never really followed basketball. I've certainly seen noted losers Nadal and Federer appreciate each others shots mid match.

How you react to your opponents varies from sport to sport, what's good for basketball doesn't necessarily translate to golf or other sports. I don't think anything Phil did (apart from hit the ball) would have had any effect on Rose. He was at max already and totally focused on his own game.

My point about Tiger was tongue in cheek. I think he is getting away lightly compared to Stricker and Furyk who have been out of form, as you say Tiger has been the second  best player this year, you'd expect more than half a point from him.

Nice point " I've certainly seen NOTED  LOSERS, Nadal and Federer appreciate each others shots mid match, winners may say nice shot but do not applaud for so long.

I will admit I was disappointed in Tiger GIVING the tie to Molinari.

I will also conceed he is a difficult alternate partner. Tiger is the best at scambling back from his often wayward tee shots and his partner has to do this in alternate ball. Stricker was picked because over his career he was one of the best putters. This year he was 65th on the Tour. With Stricker as a partner I would not expect any points out of that matchup

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by jimdandy

1) Davis: Worst coach/leader in Ryder Cup history.

No, that would be Hal Sutton.

Nice hat.

[Joakim]

Excellent post, you are right on all points. I might add DL3 is not a motivator and was no were to be seen on the course. Managers Manage. Period. They do not stay with one plan, you adapt respond and you go for the kill. Olie was encouraging his players while DL3 put them to sleep.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by jimdandy

1) Davis: Worst coach/leader in Ryder Cup history.

Tiger, Phil, Zack, Keegan, and Dufner HAVE TO LEAD OFF. If they get swept, we don't deserve the Cup.

Bubba and Simpson leading off!? Really Davis?

2) Furyk: Biggest choker of ALL TIME!   His entire routine and rhythm is completely thrown off when pressured. Who looks over two 8 foot putts for 10 minutes each!??

3) Stricker: 2nd biggest choker of ALL TIME! Another terrible selection.

He looked like a deer caught in headlights out there. Not guts whatsoever.

4) PHIL PHIL PHIL! He just doesn't get heads up, Ryder Cup competition. You never applaud your opponent. You put fear, as best you can, into your opponent. There was no way he was winning 18. NEVER! He conceded to Rose on 16 and 17 by clapping, thumbs up, and that stupid goofy smile. There was NO FIRE whatsoever in him. NONE!

NEXT RYDER CUP... No Phil, Stricker, Furyk, and Davis. Please! Not one has any guts!

Resending with quote...

Excellent post , you are right on all points. I might add DL3 is not a motivator and was no were to be seen on the course. Managers Manage. Period. They do not stay with one plan, you adapt respond and you go for the kill. Olie was encouraging his players while DL3 put them to sleep.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

No, that would be Hal Sutton.

Nice hat.

Or Sir Nick "people person" Faldo

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

The concept that a player gets extra confidence from his opponent applauding is totally bogus. I think Rose was pretty much at max confidence to hole the putt in the first place.

You're also assuming that Tiger wouldn't have pulled Keegan down to his level, certainly no guarantee of a win.

If the Four Balls on Friday and Saturday had been played as medal play, Tiger woud have been leading the field. The only person being dragged down was Tiger, by Stricker.