Molinari

[Monte the Bear]

I find this sudden taste for draws surprising - although I stand to be corrected, are draws allowed in any other domestic American sport? I seem to recall that there is overtime in Basketball and NFL, an 'ice off' (??? not sure that's correct) in hockey, extra innings in baseball, PGA tour events never end in a tie...just wondering why the sudden change of sporting culture?

[Lefty-Golfer]

Originally Posted by Monte the Bear

I find this sudden taste for draws surprising - although I stand to be corrected, are draws allowed in any other domestic American sport? I seem to recall that there is overtime in Basketball and NFL, an 'ice off' (??? not sure that's correct) in hockey, extra innings in baseball, PGA tour events never end in a tie...just wondering why the sudden change of sporting culture?

a draw is a loss so move on.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Zip... To honestly think Tiger didn't care is kind of humourous.  Tiger Woods, not care?  Are you kidding?  He'd play you for a coke on a Sunday round - and try to crush you in doing so.  This wasn't for a coke.  This was for pride - and furthering his Ryder Cup record.  During an event when he was 0'fer.  You think he didn't desperately want to make that putt??

And the coke was already won . Understand? The RC is a team event . The team lost. The end.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Well good point. For that matter, Moli & Woods should have just shook hands on the 18th tee, call it a tie, don't even play the hole.

Soon as Kaymer made his putt to clinch it I switched to football & about 10 mins later I just checked back in to the RC & they were on the 18th green, and my first thought was 'Why are they even still playing?'

I don't know if this is true - but someone else on this board made the point that the captains had an agreement proceeding yesterdays competition that both teams would continue play until all matches were final.  Even if the cup was decided before the final pairing was finished.  So that would explain why they finished the 18th - if indeed it was true.

Also, Tiger and Molinari had already hit their tee shots on the 18th... Tiger was waiting in the fairway.  And Molinari was in the fairway bunker.  Stricker took so long to read the putt on 18, that Tiger and Molinari were waiting to hit their approach shots into the 18th green - by the time Kaymer had sunk his putt.  Given the magnitude of the moment, and what was on the line - Tiger and Molinari weren't going to concede anything on the tee.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Monte the Bear

I find this sudden taste for draws surprising - although I stand to be corrected, are draws allowed in any other domestic American sport? I seem to recall that there is overtime in Basketball and NFL, an 'ice off' (??? not sure that's correct) in hockey, extra innings in baseball, PGA tour events never end in a tie...just wondering why the sudden change of sporting culture?

That's a good point. Could you imagine a Ryder Cup Playoff should the teams end in a tie? WOW.

Unfortunately, when it was set up way back when, they decided a tie went to whoever was in posession of the cup. That does seem to go against our hyper-competitive nature doesn't it?

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

And the coke was already won. Understand? The RC is a team event. The team lost. The end.

I really think you are letting Tiger off the hook.  To think he didn't want that putt - and to win that point - to force a draw?  Tiger Woods?  He didn't care?

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Well good point. For that matter, Moli & Woods should have just shook hands on the 18th tee, call it a tie, don't even play the hole.

Soon as Kaymer made his putt to clinch it I switched to football & about 10 mins later I just checked back in to the RC & they were on the 18th green, and my first thought was 'Why are they even still playing?'

They were stood in the fairway waiting for Kaymer to putt.

Usual protocol would've been to call theire match a half in the middle of the fairway. Not sure what actually happened. I thought I read it had been agreed to finish out all the matches.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I really think you are letting Tiger off the hook.  To think he didn't want that putt - and to win that point - to force a draw?  Tiger Woods?  He didn't care?

He. Didn't. Care.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

That's a good point. Could you imagine a Ryder Cup Playoff should the teams end in a tie? WOW.

Unfortunately, when it was set up way back when, they decided a tie went to whoever was in posession of the cup. That does seem to go against our hyper-competitive nature doesn't it?

I suspect a huge anticlimax because the light was shot. If they had the timings right it would be awful  it was hard enough watching yesterday.

The inter club comp I play in has a play off in ties. Each captain marks up his play off man before the afternoon matches. Never been picked to do the job thank goodness.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

I suspect a huge anticlimax because the light was shot. If they had the timings right it would be awful  it was hard enough watching yesterday.

The inter club comp I play in has a play off in ties. Each captain marks up his play off man before the afternoon matches. Never been picked to do the job thank goodness.

Novel concept: Tee off earlier. First match didn't go off til noon.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Novel concept: Tee off earlier. First match didn't go off til noon.

Won't work, TV wouldn't go for it.

[VOX]

If tiger had won the US record would have been 7-8-2 since continental Europe joined in the matches. It is now 7-9-1.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Novel concept: Tee off earlier. First match didn't go off til noon.

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

Won't work, TV wouldn't go for it.

Not to mention how hard it would be to get Rory to an earlier tee time.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Monte the Bear

I find this sudden taste for draws surprising - although I stand to be corrected, are draws allowed in any other domestic American sport? I seem to recall that there is overtime in Basketball and NFL, an 'ice off' (??? not sure that's correct) in hockey, extra innings in baseball, PGA tour events never end in a tie...just wondering why the sudden change of sporting culture?

I'm happy to correct you.  In the NFL, there are indeed ties.  They play one overtime quarter and if the score is tied then it ends in a tie (happens nearly every year in regular season games).  In MLB (baseball) it happens very rarely, though late in the season if a game is tied and it has to be called because of weather, and if the game has no playoff implications, and if there isn't room in the schedule to continue play, MLB can call it a "tie" (since the game "doesn't matter").  In the NHL (hockey), there's overtime but if the score is still tied (just like the NFL) then the game is recorded as a tie.

There's no change in sporting culture.  Actually, if anything, we've done more to eliminate ties the past 30 years than we did before.  Where have you been?

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by dave67az

I'm happy to correct you.  In the NFL, there are indeed ties.  They play one overtime quarter and if the score is tied then it ends in a tie (happens nearly every year in regular season games).  In MLB (baseball) it happens very rarely, though late in the season if a game is tied and it has to be called because of weather, and if the game has no playoff implications, and if there isn't room in the schedule to continue play, MLB can call it a "tie" (since the game "doesn't matter").  In the NHL (hockey), there's overtime but if the score is still tied (just like the NFL) then the game is recorded as a tie.

There's no change in sporting culture.  Actually, if anything, we've done more to eliminate ties the past 30 years than we did before.  Where have you been?

And I am happy to correct Dave too.

He is correct about ties in football, except not about the frequency ... there have been all of 4 ties in the last 22 1/2 season (since November of 1989)  And the last one was memorable because it's when we found out that the players (in that case Donovan McNabb I think) don't even know the rules.

In MLB, it never happens except in the all-star game several years ago when both teams ran out of pitchers.  (Your late season weather delay scenario is certainly plausible, but I can't say I've ever heard of that happening)

In the NHL, they USED to have ties, but they switched to a shoot-out format, I believe, the same year they came back from their last lockout, which was what?  2004?  (One rules quirk is that the team that loses the shootout still gets credit for an "overtime loss" and 1 point in the standings - the same amount of points teams used to get for a tie)

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

And I am happy to correct Dave too.

He is correct about ties in football, except not about the frequency ... there have been all of 4 ties in the last 22 1/2 season (since November of 1989)  And the last one was memorable because it's when we found out that the players (in that case Donovan McNabb I think) don't even know the rules.

In MLB, it never happens except in the all-star game several years ago when both teams ran out of pitchers.  (Your late season weather delay scenario is certainly plausible, but I can't say I've ever heard of that happening)

In the NHL, they USED to have ties, but they switched to a shoot-out format, I believe, the same year they came back from their last lockout, which was what?  2004?  (One rules quirk is that the team that loses the shootout still gets credit for an "overtime loss" and 1 point in the standings - the same amount of points teams used to get for a tie)

Also, in the Playoffs - there is no such thing as a tie. :P

Edit: In sports that 'matter' that is... I have no clue about Hockey!! LOL

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Also, in the Playoffs - there is no such thing as a tie. :P

Edit: In sports that 'matter' that is... I have no clue about Hockey!! LOL

Hey!  Hockey's awesome!  (Although since they apparently decided not to play it anymore, I guess one could argue it doesn't matter)

But back on topic ... I actually am on both sides of this in regards to the Ryder Cup.  It seems very silly to have a tie.  In an event of this magnitude, to say that one team gets to "win" with different parameters than the other seems pretty ludicrous.  "Alright Roger, since you won Wimbledon last year, you only have to win 2 sets to retain your title."

But on the other hand, it seems like it would be very anti-climactic to have one player on a 12 person team decide the entire teams fate.

All sporting events that I can think of that play out in a series (baseball, basketball and hockey playoffs, tennis matches, etc) all have one thing in common:  There is an odd number of games or sets played such that it is impossible to tie.

So, if I was the Ryder Cup Czar, my solution would be to make one of the earlier sessions (perhaps the opening session?) 5 matches long (or 3 if thats too much) instead of 4, and have each match played out to the end.  Yes, there would be some potentially long matches, but more often than not, somebody wins within a hole or 2 extra.  And with 29 (or 27) total points up for grabs and no halves, a tie would be impossible. :)

[FarWest]

I'm curious as to why anyone would believe that the match should have been called in on the 18th when the result of the competition hadn't been decided. Europe had retained the cup, but the record book would show a tie.  It would have been different if the last match was tied, but it is inconceivable that a full point would be conceded with the overall result in the balance.  As has been said Tiger had ample opportunity to concede the putt before he missed his own putt.  To be honest its beginning to look like a desperate race for the high moral ground, especially as even Westwood agreed that Kuchar was well within his rights to ask him to putt out from a foot or so for the win on 16.  I was amazed Woods conceded that putt, and really can't understand why he did it even after his comments on the matter.