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i have no interest in "teeing it forward"


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I wouldn't have had nearly as much enjoyment from golf if I'd never been able to reach any par 5's in two.  The idea of having a potential opportunity to go for that occasional rare eagle is a great rush.  I would feel that I was not playing the right tees if I never had that chance.  But then, I don't feel obligated to always play driver on par 4 holes either.

I have most of the time played the middle tees, or in the case of multiple tees, usually what was just forward of the tips.  Before age started to lengthen the course for me, that meant that on my home course (6500 yards from the middle tee) I played driver on only 3 holes on the front nine (but on 7 holes on the back), because driver was more likely to get me in trouble in trees, native rough (as high as 3 feet tall), or water.  This also gave me the opportunity with a good drive to go for any of the par 5's in two (including the 520 yard 16th), but only after a good drive.  This is how I have always expected par 5 holes to play - not every par 5, but in my opinion there should be at least 2 out of the 4 that most courses have that are reachable in 2 good shots.  For me it would have been a bit underwhelming if most par 5's were mandatory driver, 3W, wedge.

I might add to that playing the middle tees also meant that I used every club in my bag on virtually every round.  To me that was a true test of a good golf course.  Now that age is catching up to me, I still use every club most rounds, but I rarely hit less than driver on any par 4 or par 5 holes, and it's been a few years since I was on a par 5 green in 2.  I'm glad I played the middle tees while I was younger and experienced the opportunity to play a risk/reward game with fun scoring opportunities.  Now I just don't have the distance any more to do that on the courses I play here.  Even the forward tees don't give that much of an advantage over the mids on most holes on my most played courses here.

I love going back to my old home course and playing their new senior tees, because it makes golf more fun for me, rather than a test of endurance.  I'll always try to play the tees that give me the best blend of challenge and fun.

I'm not even close to being a scratch golfer but I got the length and that dictates where i play from, sure i could move up a tee box or two and be hitting irons into par 5's, but where is the fun it that. When your on in two on a 570yrd par 5 (295 drive 275 3 wood) the feeling is much more meaningful, even when i miss the putt :doh: , more then it would be if I were only playing it at 500yrds.

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To be fair, someone that bad would stink from whatever set of tees he/she is playing from. Moving up won't help much at all.

I play from the tips because I have the distance. Moving up doesn't stop me from hitting errant drives. Plus, when I am driving the ball well, being able to reach par 5s in two and hitting pitch shots as approaches on par 4s just doesn't quite feel like golf.

Why not?  I see pros doing it all the time and I've never heard one of them say it doesn't quite feel like golf.  I'd rather give myself a chance to shoot a decent score than play from tees where GIRs are a rarity.

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Why not?  I see pros doing it all the time and I've never heard one of them say it doesn't quite feel like golf.  I'd rather give myself a chance to shoot a decent score than play from tees where GIRs are a rarity.

And it gives you shots you don't have normally.   And it helps your game!

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Every year my club has a "Red, White and Blue" tournament.   Each hole has a different tee that you play from.  And you have to count a different number of players' scores from each tee.

Blue = Standard Men's tees

White = Shorter set of men's tees  (there is a senior tee in front of white)

Red = Ladies tees

If you are on a hole where you tee off from the blue, I think you take 2 scores.   White is 3 scores and red is all 4.    What makes it interesting is that they of course set it up where you can drive a par 4, or easily try to reach a par 5...but if you aren't familiar with that shot, it can be off-putting.   I like moving up because it forces me to hit irons off some tees, or hit a lower percentage longer shot to try and score.   There's also something to be said for putting the pressure on yourself by playing forward and seeing if you can score better.

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I'm in the 14 HI range, and distance isn't my problem either. As mentioned in another thread, roughly half of my rounds are "walk-ons". Whether I'm playing with new friends or old golf buddies, I play what they play, usually white but often enough blue. If I kept close track, the blue or black rounds are probably a slightly higher scoring average. My short game is fairly decent and that is the equalizer.

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To be fair, someone that bad would stink from whatever set of tees he/she is playing from. Moving up won't help much at all.

I play from the tips because I have the distance. Moving up doesn't stop me from hitting errant drives. Plus, when I am driving the ball well, being able to reach par 5s in two and hitting pitch shots as approaches on par 4s just doesn't quite feel like golf.

Come on bill,

playing from the tips as a 19 HC is far from justified - if you have the distance, then obviously you have a low golf IQ and are teeing off with the wrong clubs.

Dont kid yourself, you are not hitting a significant amount of par 5s in 2 nor are you hitting pitch shots as your second shot on par 4s at your handicap.

Now if you have just not adjusted your profile handicap and dont know how to, then i take it all back.

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I wouldn't have had nearly as much enjoyment from golf if I'd never been able to reach any par 5's in two.  The idea of having a potential opportunity to go for that occasional rare eagle is a great rush.  I would feel that I was not playing the right tees if I never had that chance.

I'm not saying I don't want to be able to reach par 5's in two, but when par 5's become 440 yards, they're not really par 5's anymore.

I'll always try to play the tees that give me the best blend of challenge and fun.

I do the exact same thing. When I'm grinding, it's not because of the length of the course, it's because I'm swinging like :poo: . Like I said, moving up won't change that one bit.

Why not?  I see pros doing it all the time and I've never heard one of them say it doesn't quite feel like golf.  I'd rather give myself a chance to shoot a decent score than play from tees where GIRs are a rarity.

I don't know. I feel like you're supposed to hit irons or something? I admit it wasn't really a well thought out statement. I've played courses from different sets of tees, different courses of different lengths, etc. and I've found that I still average the same amount of GIR/round. My game is a little anomalous.

playing from the tips as a 19 HC is far from justified - if you have the distance, then obviously you have a low golf IQ and are teeing off with the wrong clubs.

I spoke too quickly. I play from the blues. Some courses, they're the tips. Others, as in the case of a couple of courses I started playing this year, have a championship tee as the tips. I don't play them. In case you're wondering, the yardages of the tees I usually play are: 6273, 3350 (9 holes), 6397, 6034, 6226, 2348 (9 holes), 7025. With the exception of the last one, I doubt anybody would consider them long.

Anyway as I understand it, tee selection should be based on how far you can hit the ball, not your handicap. Yes, distance is the largest determinant for difficulty, but it's not why I don't score well. As it turns out, hitting shots into the next zip code is not good for one's golf game.

If you're suggesting that I'll shoot better scores simply from having higher "golf IQ" or whatever, I have to disagree with you. I'll play better once I stop missing so dramatically. If you're suggesting that I tee off with something I'm guaranteed to keep in play, I'm still going to disagree with you. I'm not going to play golf with nothing but 6 iron and down. If you're suggesting I don't actually hit the ball a pretty good distance, then I don't know what to tell you.

Dont kid yourself, you are not hitting a significant amount of par 5s in 2 nor are you hitting pitch shots as your second shot on par 4s at your handicap.

I didn't say I always do that. I said, "when I drive well." I also never said that I'm actually hitting the greens in 2, just that I can reach them when I hit a good drive. Anyway, since you seem to have pretty good knowledge of my game, where do you think I can cut some strokes?

Edit: Don't worry about what I'm doing. Nobody is being held up no the course on my account.

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Come on bill, playing from the tips as a 19 HC is far from justified - if you have the distance, then obviously you have a low golf IQ and are teeing off with the wrong clubs. Dont kid yourself, you are not hitting a significant amount of par 5s in 2 nor are you hitting pitch shots as your second shot on par 4s at your handicap. Now if you have just not adjusted your profile handicap and dont know how to, then i take it all back.

So what handicap should someone carry before you think they should play from the tips.

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To be fair, someone that bad would stink from whatever set of tees he/she is playing from. Moving up won't help much at all.

I play from the tips because I have the distance. Moving up doesn't stop me from hitting errant drives. Plus, when I am driving the ball well, being able to reach par 5s in two and hitting pitch shots as approaches on par 4s just doesn't quite feel like golf.

I spoke too quickly. I play from the blues. Some courses, they're the tips. Others, as in the case of a couple of courses I started playing this year, have a championship tee as the tips. I don't play them. In case you're wondering, the yardages of the tees I usually play are: 6273, 3350 (9 holes), 6397, 6034, 6226, 2348 (9 holes), 7025. With the exception of the last one, I doubt anybody would consider them long.

Anyway as I understand it, tee selection should be based on how far you can hit the ball, not your handicap. Yes, distance is the largest determinant for difficulty, but it's not why I don't score well. As it turns out, hitting shots into the next zip code is not good for one's golf game.

If you're suggesting that I'll shoot better scores simply from having higher "golf IQ" or whatever, I have to disagree with you. I'll play better once I stop missing so dramatically. If you're suggesting that I tee off with something I'm guaranteed to keep in play, I'm still going to disagree with you. I'm not going to play golf with nothing but 6 iron and down. If you're suggesting I don't actually hit the ball a pretty good distance, then I don't know what to tell you.

I didn't say I always do that. I said, "when I drive well." I also never said that I'm actually hitting the greens in 2, just that I can reach them when I hit a good drive. Anyway, since you seem to have pretty good knowledge of my game, where do you think I can cut some strokes?

Edit: Don't worry about what I'm doing. Nobody is being held up no the course on my account.

My *knowledge* of your game was based on your previous post. You obviously like to play tees based on your one in a million shot, good for you - but teeing it forward will not hurt your game either.

But with a little further knowledge, the only tees you are playing that are out of your league is the 7000 yard one - you are correct, the rest of them are not long.

When you make a statement about playing from the tips, it comes across differently - colors mean nothing because they vary from course to course - when you say *tips* - it usually means back tees.

So what handicap should someone carry before you think they should play from the tips.

There is no set handicap - based on Bill's original statements, i felt he was wrong - his more explanatory post made the *tips* make sense for him. Every golfer/course is different - but just because someone is a long hitter, does not mean that they can not benefit from teeing it up. If they learned to hit their shorter clubs, the score may come down.

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So what handicap should someone carry before you think they should play from the tips.

FWIW, some courses give a recommendation on the scorecard as to what tees to play. I've never seen any recommendations based on length, just on handicap. Length is too subjective---

For instance, one that comes to mind is Torrey South. As I recall from memory, black tees (tips, 7500 ish) nobody unless with permission. blues (7000 ish) 0-5 hdcp, whites (6600 ish) 6-14 hdcp, gold (6200 ish) 15+.

Even that seems difficult, I'd submit most 5 hdcps would find the blues very difficult, as would most 14 hdcps find the whites too difficult.

And last time I played there (from the whites) some guys ahead of us played the blues but were obviously not 5 or lower hdcps. They hit it a long way, just not straight. At all. It was SOOO slow behind them, they had no business playing from back there.

I'd say basing tees on handicap is most legitimate.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I wouldn't have had nearly as much enjoyment from golf if I'd never been able to reach any par 5's in two.  The idea of having a potential opportunity to go for that occasional rare eagle is a great rush.  I would feel that I was not playing the right tees if I never had that chance.

I'm not saying I don't want to be able to reach par 5's in two, but when par 5's become 440 yards, they're not really par 5's anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I'll always try to play the tees that give me the best blend of challenge and fun.

I do the exact same thing. When I'm grinding, it's not because of the length of the course, it's because I'm swinging like . Like I said, moving up won't change that one bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac62

Why not?  I see pros doing it all the time and I've never heard one of them say it doesn't quite feel like golf.  I'd rather give myself a chance to shoot a decent score than play from tees where GIRs are a rarity.

I don't know. I feel like you're supposed to hit irons or something? I admit it wasn't really a well thought out statement. I've played courses from different sets of tees, different courses of different lengths, etc. and I've found that I still average the same amount of GIR/round. My game is a little anomalous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meenman

playing from the tips as a 19 HC is far from justified - if you have the distance, then obviously you have a low golf IQ and are teeing off with the wrong clubs.

I spoke too quickly. I play from the blues. Some courses, they're the tips. Others, as in the case of a couple of courses I started playing this year, have a championship tee as the tips. I don't play them. In case you're wondering, the yardages of the tees I usually play are: 6273, 3350 (9 holes), 6397, 6034, 6226, 2348 (9 holes), 7025. With the exception of the last one, I doubt anybody would consider them long.

Anyway as I understand it, tee selection should be based on how far you can hit the ball, not your handicap. Yes, distance is the largest determinant for difficulty, but it's not why I don't score well. As it turns out, hitting shots into the next zip code is not good for one's golf game.

If you're suggesting that I'll shoot better scores simply from having higher "golf IQ" or whatever, I have to disagree with you. I'll play better once I stop missing so dramatically. If you're suggesting that I tee off with something I'm guaranteed to keep in play, I'm still going to disagree with you. I'm not going to play golf with nothing but 6 iron and down. If you're suggesting I don't actually hit the ball a pretty good distance, then I don't know what to tell you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meenman

Dont kid yourself, you are not hitting a significant amount of par 5s in 2 nor are you hitting pitch shots as your second shot on par 4s at your handicap.

I didn't say I always do that. I said, "when I drive well." I also never said that I'm actually hitting the greens in 2, just that I can reach them when I hit a good drive. Anyway, since you seem to have pretty good knowledge of my game, where do you think I can cut some strokes?

Edit: Don't worry about what I'm doing. Nobody is being held up no the course on my account.

Just hitting the ball a long ways is not a guaranteed indicator that you should play back tees.  You need some semblance of control too.  If your handicap is that high then some part of your game clearly needs work, and since for most people the driver is one of the more difficult clubs to hit, that is where most instructors would begin questioning.  Long and wrong will always play slower than shorter and not so wrong.  There is no shame in playing a 3W from a shorter tee set.  Or from choking down on the driver and hitting it shorter.  I don't know you or anything about your game, but a 19.5 index tells me that you aren't getting the job done, and often that means that the player isn't keeping the ball in play off the tee.  For me, an 80 from the middle tees is a whole lot more fun than a 93 from the tips.

There has been at least one guy on this forum who tried to tell me that my lifetime best 73 wasn't really valid since it was from the middle tees - he discredited any score not played from the tips.  I called him a jerk or something similar which I regret, but his holier than thou attitude pissed me off.  All I can say is that it felt pretty damn good to me on a 6500 yard course.  Since it happened in the club championship, I didn't have any control over where I played from.  As a 10 to 12 handicap, my flight played the middle tees in men's club tournaments for 22 years, and I never felt like I should be playing from farther back.  I did play the back tees occasionally in a casual round, and I was capable of doing so, but it overburdened my game and wasn't a lot of fun usually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meenman

Come on bill,

playing from the tips as a 19 HC is far from justified - if you have the distance, then obviously you have a low golf IQ and are teeing off with the wrong clubs.

Dont kid yourself, you are not hitting a significant amount of par 5s in 2 nor are you hitting pitch shots as your second shot on par 4s at your handicap.

Now if you have just not adjusted your profile handicap and dont know how to, then i take it all back.

So what handicap should someone carry before you think they should play from the tips.

That depends on the course and the individual.  I've known older players (not yet seniors) who simply didn't hit the ball far enough to play comfortably from the tips on any course I've played, yet from the middle tees they maintained a single digit handicap.  This wasn't that uncommon back when I was learning the game.  The driver was a difficult club to master before metal woods were introduced, and a lot of players, myself included, played a 3W on most tee shots where driver would have been the normal club.

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Playing from the back tees was fun when targeting for a bogey. Now, if I'm looking at 450+ yards in two shots I think about how hard it will be to get it reasonably close. If I'm playing my average 390 yard par 4 hole, my worst drives will get me more than halfway. This puts me in a mental state that my worst drive will get me more than halfway, and my best drive will leave me a LW. Moving up is fun too, it's comfortable. . .
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My *knowledge* of your game was based on your previous post. You obviously like to play tees based on your one in a million shot, good for you - but teeing it forward will not hurt your game either.

But with a little further knowledge, the only tees you are playing that are out of your league is the 7000 yard one - you are correct, the rest of them are not long.

When you make a statement about playing from the tips, it comes across differently - colors mean nothing because they vary from course to course - when you say *tips* - it usually means back tees.

There is no set handicap - based on Bill's original statements, i felt he was wrong - his more explanatory post made the *tips* make sense for him. Every golfer/course is different - but just because someone is a long hitter, does not mean that they can not benefit from teeing it up. If they learned to hit their shorter clubs, the score may come down.

I feel like Bill and I are very similar in our games. In as much as length of course has very little to do with our scores. My handicap is pretty high, but it's more to do with having a handful of blowup holes than consistently hitting bad shots. I don't play from the back tees unless the course is ridiculously short though. I rarely hit more than an 8 or 9 iron into any par 4 on the courses I play and more often I'm hitting a wedge. It's entirely possible I could move back a set of tees and have my handicap drop because the course rating increases without really seeing my scores increase. I would not play 7000+ yardage courses because there aren't any in my area anyway.

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One of my main golf motivations is to lower my HI.  I don't use my HI for betting or tournaments, for me it's only a yardstick of my improvement.

I'll play whichever tee I think gives me the best chance to have a lower differential.  Normally that's the whites but sometimes the blues.

For example, Bear Mountain Golf course (9 hole course in Big Bear Lake, CA) is a close call for me.  Hole # 3 there is a small target to the green which is protected by a stream/gully and thick thickets about 15 yards shy of the green that also has a green side bunker.  From the whites with a decent tee shot I'll be approaching with a PW or SW but from the blues that's a 6i or 7i.  Then hole 7 which is all forced carry over water, I'm looking at my 7i vs. my 4h.  I'm guessing the blues on average would cost me 1 to 2 strokes over nine and the course only gives me for playing the blues .7 in the rating and about another .25 in the slope (with a 18 HI) for a total of about 1 stroke.

It's a close call, the whites are probably better for me.

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I feel like Bill and I are very similar in our games. In as much as length of course has very little to do with our scores. My handicap is pretty high, but it's more to do with having a handful of blowup holes than consistently hitting bad shots. I don't play from the back tees unless the course is ridiculously short though. I rarely hit more than an 8 or 9 iron into any par 4 on the courses I play and more often I'm hitting a wedge. It's entirely possible I could move back a set of tees and have my handicap drop because the course rating increases without really seeing my scores increase. I would not play 7000+ yardage courses because there aren't any in my area anyway.

How fun is it shooting 3 digit scores? At a 22 playing back tees, you are not breaking 100 often.

I had friends like you guys (mind you they are much older) - it took me years to finally convince them to move up.

All of them are long hitters and they are now enjoying the game a lot more moving up. None of us has had our index change much, but our scores are lower - that is the beauty of the handicap system - it takes all of that into consideration.

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How fun is it shooting 3 digit scores? At a 22 playing back tees, you are not breaking 100 often.

I had friends like you guys (mind you they are much older) - it took me years to finally convince them to move up.

All of them are long hitters and they are now enjoying the game a lot more moving up. None of us has had our index change much, but our scores are lower - that is the beauty of the handicap system - it takes all of that into consideration.

You are overestimating the length the back tees are at my local courses I think. Even the back tees here tend to hover around 6600 max yards and don't really bring any extra trouble into the picture.

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You are overestimating the length the back tees are at my local courses I think. Even the back tees here tend to hover around 6600 max yards and don't really bring any extra trouble into the picture.

I played at 6600 for years because my friends wouldnt move up - every yard adds more trouble for a higher HCer.

One mistake and I would shoot a 102.

Now from 6000 yards, 90 is breakable and I have to be really hungover to fear the triple digit score.

The change for me was 3 holes, one par 4 that went from guaranteed double to almost automatic bogey with a great par chance, a par 3 that is now hittable instead of a 190 yard shot that allowed for no mistake and another par 4 with a forced carry that took a left side tree out of play off the tee.

Now i do not use driver on every hole (although I can) - there is something about playing smarter vs hitting as far as you can.

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