• Announcements

    • iacas

      Introducing TST "Clubs!"   08/28/2017

      No, we're not getting into the equipment business, but we do have "clubs" here on TST now. Groups. Check them out here:
Sign in to follow this  
golfjunky0331

Phil's hinge and hold vs pelz short game bible

Recommended Posts

I'm about 3/4 of the way through pelz short game bible, and I like his 3x4 system and his ideas. Just bought Phil's videos haven't got them yet but watched a few teaser clips and it confuses me as to why he plays the ball in the front of his stance which encourages skulked shots does it not? Also has anyone read book and watched videos would you share with me any helpful hints? It seems that with the ball in front of center it is more like a mini pitch shot whereas a mini chip would be either center or off back foot?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

You can incorporate both into your game.

Phil's stance is narrow, so it's tough to state the location of the ball. I think it is in the middle of the stance, but either way, I had no problems with Phil's method - no skulling. You need your weight on the front foot throughout the swing, and slide and pivot the hips. But don't let your head or shoulders go backwards - tuck your butt as you slide and pivot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I also saw in a couple of clips Phil changes where the swing bottoms out by moving his weight to front foot or equally on both feet while in the center. Is this referring to rough shots only, and on tight lies, do you find it easier hitting shots more upright with the toe more so than a square club face? Hope that didn't veer off topic too much

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He changes where it bottoms out depending on the situation. Certain bunker shots he likes weight balanced, most weight forward. And it seems more consistent off of a square club face than trying to toe it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by golfjunky0331

I also saw in a couple of clips Phil changes where the swing bottoms out by moving his weight to front foot or equally on both feet while in the center. Is this referring to rough shots only, and on tight lies, do you find it easier hitting shots more upright with the toe more so than a square club face? Hope that didn't veer off topic too much

Depends on what you're trying to do with the ball.

If I remember, in the rough, if your weight is front, the club will mostly pass under the ball. He also has the shot where you contact the ground with the bounce - taking the energy out of the shot...

He seems to like to open the face and then open the stance while the clubface closes until the clubface is aimed at the target

Keep on watching the video...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Yeah I'm anxious to get the videos which I paid $20 eBay... Gd deal from clips I've seen so far. One more question off a fairway gd lie or real short grass it's been said if you open the face a little it is easier to hit the ball, what is the logic there. Are you taking the bounce out by encouraging the leading edge to strike under the ball, Is he using the bounce when the club is square as opposed to being open?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by golfjunky0331

Yeah I'm anxious to get the videos which I paid $20 eBay... Gd deal from clips I've seen so far.

One more question off a fairway gd lie or real short grass it's been said if you open the face a little it is easier to hit the ball, what is the logic there. Are you taking the bounce out by encouraging the leading edge to strike under the ball, Is he using the bounce when the club is square as opposed to being open?

Originally Posted by golfjunky0331

I'm about 3/4 of the way through pelz short game bible, and I like his 3x4 system and his ideas. Just bought Phil's videos haven't got them yet but watched a few teaser clips and it confuses me as to why he plays the ball in the front of his stance which encourages skulked shots does it not? Also has anyone read book and watched videos would you share with me any helpful hints?

It seems that with the ball in front of center it is more like a mini pitch shot whereas a mini chip would be either center or off back foot?

Idk about Pelz book yet but I feel Phil's videos are the best you can get. The ball is in the front of your stance but your feet are close and slight open. You will skull if you flip at all. The premise of hinge and hold is keeping your hands considerably in front of the ball. If you watch his videos you will get all the tips you need and do not need to worry about the "bounce". He covers a multitude of lies and conditions that require alterations in ball placement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by golfjunky0331

Yeah I'm anxious to get the videos which I paid $20 eBay... Gd deal from clips I've seen so far.

One more question off a fairway gd lie or real short grass it's been said if you open the face a little it is easier to hit the ball, what is the logic there. Are you taking the bounce out by encouraging the leading edge to strike under the ball, Is he using the bounce when the club is square as opposed to being open?

With the square face, you're using the designed bounce. When one opens the face and leaves it open, you are typically adding bounce unless the designer has designed the sole with heel, toe, or trailing edge relief, or a combo of such.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

So off of a tight lie they recommend using the toe of the club is this in effect taking the bounce out of the equation and using the loft of the club face?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by golfjunky0331

So off of a tight lie they recommend using the toe of the club is this in effect taking the bounce out of the equation and using the loft of the club face?

Are you talking Pelz?

That book is so old.

I hit wedges off very tight, drought lies with a square face. You need the right wedge for your swing. Look at Utley - he uses 12 deg of bounce off a sidewalk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Ok, I'm not sure how but I was hitting a 56* sw and lw 60* Off concrete pad just to try it center of stance open With a slight wrist hinge and accelerated follow through. Question is, is it the bounce hitting the concrete and than The ball or is it the ball is sliding up the grooves of the face Of the wedge, or a little of both. And as far as ball position Pelz plays most everything from center of stance even flops And bump and runs, Phil seems more centered or front of stance Just from what I can see on his clips.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by golfjunky0331

Ok, I'm not sure how but I was hitting a 56* sw and lw 60*

Off concrete pad just to try it center of stance open

With a slight wrist hinge and accelerated follow through.

Question is, is it the bounce hitting the concrete and than

The ball or is it the ball is sliding up the grooves of the face

Of the wedge, or a little of both. And as far as ball position

Pelz plays most everything from center of stance even flops

And bump and runs, Phil seems more centered or front of stance

Just from what I can see on his clips.

Well, I don't advocate hitting off cement or practicing the technique off mats.

All of that depends on what you're trying to do as to hitting the ground, sliding the club, and then hitting ball; or hitting ball and ground simultaneously.

Wait for your Phil DVD's.

Patience, grasshopper.

Pelz has some good technique for troubled spots - and if you want to use his 3 swings with one club approach, fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Me. Desmond, Your response makes me laugh, yes I do need to be patient But it's so hard when you're excited knowing the short game Is most of my shots wasted from 50 yards and if i can improve that i will be so much better. Info is so Different on chipping and pitching between peltz, utley, and phil. But I will start with Phil's ideas and just Use the bump and run info as well as the 3x4 technique from Peltz's sgb. I do have utleys book coming too, I figure if I read the 2 books and watch the videos I will be able to use something from each. So much info so little time, very frustrating but that's golf!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by golfjunky0331

Me. Desmond,

Your response makes me laugh, yes I do need to be patient

But it's so hard when you're excited knowing the short game

Is most of my shots wasted from 50 yards and if i can improve that

i will be so much better. Info is so Different on chipping and pitching

between peltz, utley, and phil. But I will start with Phil's ideas and just

Use the bump and run info as well as the 3x4 technique from

Peltz's sgb. I do have utleys book coming too, I figure if I read the

2 books and watch the videos I will be able to use something from each.

So much info so little time, very frustrating but that's golf!!!!

Utley has some good vids on youtube.

I use Utley and some Phil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

From Phil's video, his swing key for chipping is to "keep the hands moving toward the target" (hinge hold, etc).  This helps for good contact and to insure your hands are ahead of the ball at contact.  Phil uses ball position in his video to vary the height the ball will come off the club face.  Back=lower trajectory, forward=higher.  I use this somewhat but use more of the Utley technique.

Practicing of grass is best, but you can use mats in the winter into a net.  Try to vary the trajectory with ball position but also work on direction.  Put a vertical line on the net and try to hit the line at different heights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I have utleys short game book coming as well But was curious is the diff that utley only pivots With no hinge and hold? Or a slight hinge and hold?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by golfjunky0331

I have utleys short game book coming as well

But was curious is the diff that utley only pivots

With no hinge and hold? Or a slight hinge and hold?

Think of Utley as a mini-golf swing.

ON youtube, he has a clinic where he talks about, essentially asks you to free up your wrists - depending on the shot that is required.

So, yeah, you could have a slight hinge and hold through the shot (but the club going around you like a golf swing), or you could hinge more, or if the shot requires it, you can let the clubhead pass the wrists.

But the basic seems to be a mini-swing around a center pivot.

I think you are hung on on labels - you need to do what the shot requires, but have a sound basis for your swing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

No, I'm not hung up on labels but they do seem to help. The way I understand it, the peltz off the back foot dead hands technique works well for a short chip. The Phil style with a "hinge and hold" is great for a chip with higher ball flight and when you need a sharper angle into the ball, and the utley pivot is good for most chips, and pitches up to 30 yards. I'm no expert in any means but I do like to get as much info on different styles and its nice that there is a forum to ask questions to those who have already spent some time trying out these methods. It's funny because everything does seem to have a label anymore. In putting ... Left hand low, pendulum, piston, traditional, belly putting. Just to name a few. I do appreciate all the feedback and thanks to all those with different ideas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2017 TST Partners

    Talamore Golf Resort
    PING Golf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Mission Belt
    Snell Golf
    Frogger Golf
    PitchFix USA
  • Posts

    • I started playing 3-4 months ago, having never been on a course of touched a golf club. I am really loving the game, but frustrated with my progress. On my little 9-hole course (2100 yards) I have gone from 82 to 63, but on my proper 9-hole (3200 yds) I am stuck at 75-80. I play 3 times a week (except some breaks when I travel for work), and take lessons. I can’t practice much more as the range seems to be contributing to various injuries. My technique is definitely improving, having more control around the green and at double/triple bogey on par 3s. My main issue seems to be getting to the green on par 4 and 5 where I often spend 6-7 strokes just getting there. My tee shots are inconsistent and max 120 yds, and even though I rarely shoot OB I often just shoot 50 yds ahead.  Looking at this forum, most people seem to struggle with the 100 to 120, so it is really discouraging to be at 160 (I count everything!). Did anyone start so badly, and was there a point in which things started coming together? Please share! At this point I still enjoy myself, but it’s starting to be demotivating. 
    • Brilliant info, I hadn't thought of that... Ha ha I'm afraid it does get very windy and wet here in Winter and I found that the hybrids were launching a little high and just wanted an iron that would keep it down a bit. I figured that the 24* driving iron with the bit of extra cavity/help in the back would be a solid option and then go from 5-PW with my set.   I think the shims work well ( from what I googled ) once the prep work is done correctly on the adapter and all parts are sanded to help better contact for the epoxy so should be good to go. Thank you @WUTiger appreciate the info
    • Not for me. If i duff my last few balls its just a case of "well they didnt go as planned, not a problem". I didnt used to be like that. I'd bring old balls with me so i could finish on a good shot but i feel, for me, doing that doesnt benefit me. Its a personnal kind of thing. If i've had a really good session then a few bad shots isnt the end of the world. I generally finish with pitches so there is less chance of finishing with a duff but if i do then its no biggie. Best to make the mistakes  in dress rehersal than on the night. I do agree with not going to bed angry though, never good.
    • 20" and 80" measuring devices will be on the market shortly.
    • That is not evidence of a conspiracy.  You can suspect collusion if you want, but there is absolutely no proof that anyone conspired to anything.  What little evidence that suspicion provides is completely circumstantial, and you can't provide a motive for such a conspiracy.   You may be right that there is a tacit conspiracy, but that would be very hard to prove to the point of meting out any punishment.  Suspicion and supposition certainly wouldn't convict anyone in a court of law, and I feel that you have to hold it to at least that high a standard. 
  • Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Covert
      Covert
      (74 years old)
    2. opie
      opie
      (40 years old)
    3. Robert Diddings
      Robert Diddings
      (33 years old)
  • Get Great Gear with Amazon