The 2013 Tampa Bay Championship Presented by Everbank Discussion Thread

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Nonsense.  They want god to be real, but no one is 100% certain of the existence of a supreme being, no matter how hard they thump that bible, because there has been absolutely no credible proof that a deity exists since... well, biblical times (and if one took a crack team of forensic scientists, experts in medicine, physics, engineering, geology, meterology, etc... back in history, you know that they would have an absolutely plausible, scientific explanation for every miracle attributed to a deity).

A few years back a door-to-door evangelist bothered me and my family as we were about to take our dog for a walk.  He came up to me and demanded "Is it important to you to be able to spend the rest of eternity with your family?"  I told him no, that it was important to spend every living day with my family.  He responded "Well I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and I know that I will be spending eternity in heaven with my family."  I told him that no, he did not know what will happen after he dies because no one knows and I told him that if he was so confident his beliefs were correct, he wouldn't be out trying to convince other people of it and reduce his own insecurities about his beliefs through comfort in numbers.  He didn't say anything - it was clear from the look on his face that I was right - and he just walked away.

If an atheist athlete announced in a post-match interview "I attribute my concentration that lead to the win today to my knowledge that there is no reliable proof of any sort that any deity exists and that if one did exist, it is either not all-powerful or not a good being, or both."  religious people would be outraged.  They would be screaming at the anti-Christian rhetoric (arrogantly forgetting that Christianity isn't the only theistic religion) and would altogether forget that such a statement is simply the non-religous equivalent of the devout athlete's devoting his victory to his god (which they find altogether appropriate).

My mom's best friend and her husband are among the only truly religious people I've ever met who were actually really good, conscientious people.  They never foist their beliefs upon others, they will candidly admit that there is a real degree of uncertainty about any religion including their own, and they are very heavily involved in charitable work through their church, volunteering many hours a week in a fashion that actually helps others (i.e. not just proseltyzing).  If all religious people were like this couple, we'd have no conflicts and issues regarding religion and the world would be a much better place.  One of my favorite quotes is "I like your Christ.  I do not like your Christians.  They are so unlike your Christ."  A rather famous man said that - Mahatma Ghandi.

In my mind, a person's choice of religious beliefs is a personal right, every bit as important as his or her choice of how he or she wants to conduct his or her love life; as long as no one is hurt, no one should be denied the right to exercise those two rights.  But one should keep one's beliefs to oneself or to a like-minded audience because religion is a personal choice.  Just as I do not wish to hear about how my neighbors enjoy using Batman and Robin costumes along with a bucket of Crisco in their bedroom, I also don't need to hear about their religion.  I don't want to hear about how that "quickie" Joe Fundamentalist had that morning with his wife prompted his great final round on the course and I don't want to hear about his damn religion.  Thank the fans, thank the tournament organizers, praise the course and the competition - it's not as if any athlete or coach has every said anything remotely interesting in a post-game interview in the history of sports (except maybe to announce a retirement).  Just keep your personal beliefs personal.

[Wisguy descends from the pulpit]

I found the highlighted passage amusing, in the middle of your own long dissertation on your personal religious beliefs.....

Streelman was not proselytizing. He simply gave credit where he felt it was due. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not particularly religious, but I didn't find it inappropriate at all.

[Wisguy]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I found the highlighted passage amusing, in the middle of your own long dissertation on your personal religious beliefs.....

Streelman was not proselytizing. He simply gave credit where he felt it was due. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not particularly religious, but I didn't find it inappropriate at all.

Yes, I'll admit there's a touch of irony there.  But I get so fed up with how righteous religious types can be that I sometimes like to remind them that their beliefs depend on faith and faith is adhering to bronze age and iron age myths, ideas for which there is little or no rational basis. In the words of Morgan Freeman in The Big Bounce, "God is an imaginary friend for grown-ups."  Want to believe that way?  Fine, just keep it to yourself.   If Streelman attributed his success to his new Wilson clubs, that would be a product endorsement, notwithstanding whether or not he urged others to go out and buy some Wilsons.  In my book, attributing a win to one's religion is still advocating that religion.

[Dave H]

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Yes, I'll admit there's a touch of irony there.  But I get so fed up with how righteous religious types can be that I sometimes like to remind them that their beliefs depend on faith and faith is adhering to bronze age and iron age myths, ideas for which there is little or no rational basis. In the words of Morgan Freeman in The Big Bounce, "God is an imaginary friend for grown-ups."  Want to believe that way?  Fine, just keep it to yourself.   If Streelman attributed his success to his new Wilson clubs, that would be a product endorsement, notwithstanding whether or not he urged others to go out and buy some Wilsons.  In my book, attributing a win to one's religion is still advocating that religion.

Be honest, there's more than a touch of irony there. If I were a jerk I'd call it complete hypocrisy, but I'm willing to accept that it's ok for you to espouse your beliefs, as long as Kevin Streelman and other Christians don't share theirs. Why does it matter what he chooses to attribute his win to?

To answer your previous post, it is a fact that the bible has been in existence for a long period of time. Whether or not you believe it is a personal choice.

[Rick Martin]

Charlie Beljan's recent tweet about Streelman

[Rick Martin]

http://gatewayprotour.com/alumni-update-streelman-finally-a-pga-tour-winner/

Link to article from mini tour website (Gateway Pro Tour) about Streelman (alumni from that tour).

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by Dave H

Be honest, there's more than a touch of irony there. If I were a jerk I'd call it complete hypocrisy,

Actually, you'd be grammatically correct by calling his statement hypocrisy, rather than irony.

An ironic statement uses words in a manner to intentionally convey a different (usually opposite) meaning.  As an example....."Boy, what a lovely day ! "......when it's actually 40 degrees, drizzling rain, and miserable. I believe Wisguy means exactly what he says, hence, no irony.

Hypocrisy is stating a belief, but acting in a different manner.  He states that people should keep their religious beliefs to themselves, but then does not do so himself.  Hypocrisy.

Mrs. Tomlinson would be proud, and probably a little surprised.  I actually absorbed something from 7th grade English!

[Rick Martin]

Schnedeker today "After about ten days, I prayed to heal"......guess it worked.

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

Charlie Beljan's recent tweet about Streelman

Thats pretty cool!