2013 Masters Discussion Thread, Update with Tiger's Illegal Drop (Post #343)

[paxtonman]

Do they have a rules official with every group?  If not, why not?

[eich41]

Originally Posted by rehmwa

two things will come from this

1 - players won't do post game interviews (they shouldn't either - and they shouldn't be bad mouthed if they start taking that stance - they all should)

2 - like any other activity, we make the 'refs' responsible for enforcing the rules, not spectators, not bored TV watcher, not the players or the caddies - players should know the rules, but infractions should be called by the officials.

Two simple rules should be added

1 - people watching TV should be ignored, spectators should be ignored.  The rules officials should do their jobs.

2 - If a meet judge approves a move or makes a decision - independently or at the request of a player, then that should override.  A player can still DQ themselves after the fact if the ref screws up, but it's not required.  It's not their responsibility.

seriously, shouldn't players be able to trust that a meet official knows what's going on?

as for the rest of this tournament - it's up to Tiger to disqual himself if wants.  I think once he asked the other player, and the official, he did his due diligence

- the two stroke penalty is interesting, and should be added until rules get fixed

- HD TV should then be taken 100% of the time on 100% of the players and then provided to any anal rules spectator that asks for it - scores can't be posted live until everyone in the country gets to sign off - until the rules get fixed

In any other game, any spectator actively 2nd guessing the refs would be ejected from the center.......hell, this guy will likely get an interview on Golf Channel because they don't have anything better to show.

Tiger and his caddie should study up in the meantime, this is twice now this year?  Both times they asked the official if they were ok.  Both times the official said yes.  Hell, he should just ask the gallery if it's ok.

When did Tiger ask the officials about this ruling?  It wasn't done while on the course, and I'm still waiting to see anything that says that he brought it up prior to signing his card?

[boston blackie]

This BS has ruined the Masters for me.  All you armchair quarterbacks, as well as all the windbags on the Golf Channel should take a lesson from a 14 year old, and respect the decision of the rules committee.

[eich41]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Freddie who? Couples? That makes no sense ... Tiger was playing with Scott piercy and Luke Donald.

I've been wondering that as well.  But I'm just ****ing blind so what do I know.

[HOT IRISH]

It was an honest mistake at the time but if Woods doesn't withdraw it's heading into the territory of cheating by knowingly gaining an unfair advantage over your competitors. The masters commitee have made a right mess out of this with that stupid decision. If Woods plays on it could be the worst masters ever & if he wins it will taint the tournament & his beloved major record forever. It's time for him to do the decent thing for once....

[onephenom]

Do they have a rules official with every group?  If not, why not?

There is one available to ask for. A rules official's job is not to walk around and say "hey, you're about to break this rule!" "Hey, make sure you remember how to drop!"

[trh98]

How many times has Rule 33-7 been used? Anyone know? Not saying this about Tiger in particular but I don't remember anyone who would normally be DQ'd getting a pass under "exceptional circumstances."

[Zeph]

So basically we should erase all of Lebron Jame's career stats because every time he drives to the basket, he travels; right? Even though the refs rarely call him on it. But if you look at the footage, he travels; almost every time. Its Lebron's fault right?

It would help if your analogy involved golf. Everyone jumps in race walking, does that mean Tiger shouldn't be DQ'd? More TV-time, higher definition and viewers calling in is obviously hurting the players. Perhaps more than any, the players in the spotlight. Maybe they should use more rules officials to follow the players and try to pick up on any issues before the score card is signed, to give the players some help and time to get things right.

[LeftyTrevor]

How many times has Rule 33-7 been used? Anyone know? Not saying this about Tiger in particular but I don't remember anyone who would normally be DQ'd getting a pass under "exceptional circumstances."

This is the first time they will use the rule.

[laconic517]

Originally Posted by trh98

How many times has Rule 33-7 been used? Anyone know?

Not saying this about Tiger in particular but I don't remember anyone who would normally be DQ'd getting a pass under "exceptional circumstances."

Brandel told a story about Bobby Locke a while ago.  Moving his coin because it was in someones line and then forgetting to move it back to tap in to win the british open.

His argument was that he gained no advantage because hed make the putt anyway.  IMO thats a cop out and if a rule is truly a rule it should be enforced no matter what.  I feel like theres definitely precedence for this ruling based on the Bobby Locke example.

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

The committee had already ruled that he had proceeded correctly. He then signed and returned his card. The committee then reviewed the ruling and determined that he had dropped incorrectly after all.

I just don't believe this. Full stop.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

How many times has Rule 33-7 been used? Anyone know? Not saying this about Tiger in particular but I don't remember anyone who would normally be DQ'd getting a pass under "exceptional circumstances."

They showed examples with both Camillo Vejagas and Padraig Harrington.

[clarkeycats]

The official statement: Today's pin positions:

[Mordan]

Having had a bit more time to think about this, I think the right outcome has been reached.

Had the committee done a decent job of investigating the incident during the round yesterday, then Tiger would have been penalised 2 shots before he signed his score card.

Tiger should not be penalised for the failings of the committee, so a two shot penalty but no DQ is correct given the circumstances. There is leeway under rule 33, in the general exception (not 33-7 as has been erroneously mentioned).

A botched job all round, but the right and fair result in the end. The fact that nothing was released to the public regarding the committee's initial review of the drop is a bit of an indictment of the way things are run, a completely lack of transparency that in many ways fed the resulting twitter/media storm.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

The penalty of Disqualification was waived by the Committee under rule 33 as the Committee had previously reviewed the information and made its initial determination prior to the finish of the players round. That is the important part of this ruling.

[jamo]

Tiger (or Tiger's people) on Twitter, just a bit ago: Tiger Woods ‏@TigerWoods 10m At hole #15, I took a drop that I thought was correct and in accordance with the rules. I was unaware at that time I had violated any rules. Tiger Woods ‏@TigerWoods 8m I didn’t know I had taken an incorrect drop prior to signing my scorecard. Subsequently, I met with the Masters Committee Saturday morning.. Tiger Woods ‏@TigerWoods 7m and was advised they had reviewed the incident prior to the completion of my round. Their initial determination... Tiger Woods ‏@TigerWoods 5m was that there was no violation, but they had additional concerns based on my post-round interview. After discussing the situation... Tiger Woods ‏@TigerWoods 5m ...with them this morning, I was assessed a two-shot penalty. I understand and accept the penalty and respect the Committees’ decision.

[onephenom]

Anyone else notice they replaced brandel in the discussion with nobility and Lerner? :)

[clarkeycats]

Looks like Tiger will be playing then.