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Practice Swing Vs. Real Swing - How Can One Make These THE SAME

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10 minutes ago, downbylaw11 said:

the hell are you talking about lol? systematic and scientific? 

You must not really read any of the good literature put forth by the creators and main contributors to this site. Or simply unaware of what those words mean...

Systematic: done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical.

Science: b)  something (such as a sport or technique) that may be studied or learned like systematized knowledge have it down to a science

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i understand words, but i fail to understand how youre using them and how it makes sense in your post. specifically "but I'm not sure how to go about doing that so I prefer to systematically change my actual swing when I do have a ball to look and function as a proper swing should and allow me to consistently flight the ball in the manner I'm looking for. By taking this systematic and scientific approach based on facts I think I'm taking a more reasonable route to improving my golf game."

 

youre saying you don't know how to replicate your practice swing, so you change your swing when you have a ball in front of you? I'm not sure I follow you. Im dying to be an internet smart ass but since I'm new to the forum, I'm just going to plead ignorance here and hopefully allow you to explain to me exactly what youre talking about using dumbed down language that my canadian brain can understand

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23 hours ago, saevel25 said:

There's is a big difference between swing at nothing versus a ball. 

Ideally you'd find a swing feel that produces your most successful shots and maybe routine that feel before a shot. I hardly ever take practice swings at full speed

 

13 hours ago, Grizvok said:

This is something I've noticed about pretty much every single tour player. Very very rarely do I notice them make a practice swing at full speed...it seems to be more about a few very loose practice swings focusing on some specific element.

I'm nowhere near a tour player, but I do very much the same.  My practice swings are slow speed, with the goal being to reinforce a single factor.  In my particular case, I want a consistent improved hip rotation during the forward swing.  I have one or two feels I can use to remind me to do that.  This approach is what others have labeled "systematic".  Identify the primary change needed, your "priority piece", and rehearse that piece during your practice swing.  Don't think about your entire swing, or multiple parts of it.  Focus on reinforcing a single specific point in your practice swing.  Then for your real swing, focus on hitting a shot.

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7 hours ago, downbylaw11 said:

i understand words, but i fail to understand how youre using them and how it makes sense in your post.

I believe he is saying that he rather not worry that his practice swing doesn't match his full swing. Which I would agree with.

I am pretty sure your question is, how can I make the actual swing more like the better feeling practice swing. The answer is, improve your swing. If you believe the practice swing is the swing you want then video tape the practice swing and use it as the base to change your swing with a ball. If you keep struggling then go get good instruction. In the end, maybe your practice swing isn't all that good either.

In the end there is no quick fix to making a swing feel or look different. If it was then a lot more people would be playing better golf quickly.

8 hours ago, Grizvok said:

You must not really read any of the good literature put forth by the creators and main contributors to this site. Or simply unaware of what those words mean...

There is no need to mock @downbylaw11.

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On 8/20/2017 at 2:19 AM, downbylaw11 said:

 I was surprised at how good it was, mostly because I have been having some issues with my longer clubs, but the video everything was there. I did this after I ran out of balls, so I went and got another bucket so I could try to replicate it with a ball, and I could not believe how bad it was.  I mean, I still sometimes hit decent shots, but it's a miracle that I can, because I suddenly had every single swing fault known to man in one swing. 

 

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

In the end, maybe your practice swing isn't all that good either.

First, a question.  I can't tell whether you continued to take video when you got more range balls, or whether you just had a bunch of bad shots.  Did you get video of real shots, and did your swing really look much different?  

Second, I'm not sure what your level of expertise is, but I know that even after playing for 45 years, and being a single-digit handicap for the last 15 or 20, I'm completely unqualified to analyze my own video, or anyone else's.  Its possible that what @saevel25 says is right.  Your practice swing may have looked good to you, but there could definitely be faults there that you just don't know enough to identify.

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Hi @downbylaw11, I think best to simplify the purpose of a practice swing to something very general like 'activate all' your joints which is much simpler and executable thought in your real swing instead of trying to create a detailed blueprint that you will try to replicate exactly in your ball swing. 

I don't know about you but I create some of the ugliest signatures when I try to consciously replicate the exact size and shape of the previous signature.   

I think 'ball focus' is a different subject all together but you can use soft focus techniques that @iacas has suggested on this site somewhere.  

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On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 1:19 AM, downbylaw11 said:

  does anyone have any new and improved tips getting over this mental hurdle?  I think if I'm locked in, I swing my shorter clubs quite well, but the longer the club, the more out of sorts things get.  Maybe because I feel like I need to kill the ball to make it go far?  If it's a problem with the ball being there, maybe I should try closing my eyes? 

Maybe two thoughts, think/act like you are hitting your 8 iron instead of the longer one you have in your hand.  And if I am striking the ball poorly because I am trying to 'hit' the ball, I change my focus out and look at where I want my divot to start, then swing to that like a practice swing.

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11 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I believe he is saying that he rather not worry that his practice swing doesn't match his full swing. Which I would agree with.

I am pretty sure your question is, how can I make the actual swing more like the better feeling practice swing. The answer is, improve your swing. If you believe the practice swing is the swing you want then video tape the practice swing and use it as the base to change your swing with a ball. If you keep struggling then go get good instruction. In the end, maybe your practice swing isn't all that good either.

In the end there is no quick fix to making a swing feel or look different. If it was then a lot more people would be playing better golf quickly.

There is no need to mock @downbylaw11.

one can improve their swing all they want, but if the ball being in the way causes them to completely change it, then this is less of a swing problem, and more of a mental problem. just ask charles barkley.  my swing isnt that bad of course, and I've certainly made good swings before, especially with shorter clubs as i'm able to really feel the movements i'm trying to make.  with longer clubs it's definitely much more difficult to feel it.  also, no need for for subtle digs about practice swings not being good. I wish people could just take others word for it when they are confident that they know what theyre talking about.  i'm a pretty decent golfer in spite of the current issue im having. 

 

also, can anyone explain to me why my profile picture is of tom waits from what i assume is the movie 'down by law' which i've never seen.  my user name is derived from a 90's punk band of the same name.  did an admin give me that picture? or did the this site and all of its technical glory force it upon me based on my username? that would be somethin. 

Edited by downbylaw11

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I never think about hitting the ball. I am always thinking about my swing. I literally run through a checklist just before my swing, reminding myself of key elements of my swing that I often screw up. At the end of the checklist, I state how much power I'm going to apply as a percentage of maximum, and then I take my swing. If I think about hitting the ball, I'll surely screw it up.

Most importantly, I do things exactly the same, whether I'm at home hitting foam balls into a net, on the range, or on the course. It calms me down and keeps me focused.

Sure enough, every time I fail to do this, my strike sucks and so does my shot.

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On 4/5/2013 at 4:35 AM, saevel25 said:

Try to look elsewere besides the ball, maybe a bit infront. Just stop focusing on the ball. I think the problem people get is, that they hone in on the ball so much they go from swinging to striking. Really i try to think of it as getting the club in the way of the ball. This is why i try to have one swing though, if that's rotating my chest, or keeping my right knee a bit flexed. Thinking of something else takes the ball out of my mind while i swing, and really helps.

Hmmm. While at the range today I gave this a try for a little bit and while it was pretty difficult for me to stop looking at the ball completely (I think my subconscious kept taking my eyes back there), I eventually was able to focus on a spot a few inches in front of the ball and man was contact really good. I definitely suffer from thinking about striking instead of just swinging and I think this mindset of the ball just being an object in the way of the club is very valuable. I wish I could find a good way to mesh these styles of focusing on the ball but still just viewing it as some object that gets in the way of my club...not seeing it as the sole reason I am swinging the club.

Regardless, I bet focusing on a spot in front of the ball gets a little more comfortable with repetition.

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I have suffered from this for longer than I'd like to admit. While my practice swing was/is far from good, it's much better than when hitting at a ball. But I'm starting to see a very faint light at the end of a very long tunnel.

This is what helped me....

  • I picked what I thought was the biggest difference between my practice swing and the real one. In my case, my weight shifted pretty well on my practice swing but stayed back while swinging at a ball. There were/are a lot of other issues, but that's what I decided was the biggest problem and the one I had the hardest time fixing.
  • I really slowed down and shortened the swing to try and develop the feel for the move while hitting a ball.
  • Even though I was hitting a ball, I had to really focus on the move. This was the hardest part and it will likely be the hardest part for others struggling with this. Not caring about contact is very difficult but absolutely necessary, IMO. I'm just not wired that way or something. You've got to have faith that good contact will be the easy part once you get that priority piece to feel a bit more natural. Just don't lose your focus and try to improve contact too soon.
  • Once I was able to accomplish the priority piece to where it felt a bit closer to natural with the slow, partial swing, I'd begin to lengthen my backswing. I would often fail at this point and have to go back to half swings. It was frustrating because during many of the practices, it felt like I'd never get it. 

I started this last fall and worked on it throughout the winter and spring. I should have taken video throughout that time but didn't. At some point in the early spring, something clicked and I felt like my full swings at a ball were much closer to my practice swings. I took video and there was some improvement. I lose it on the course all the time and revert to leaving my weight back, but at the same time, there are many swings on the course where I've felt that weight shifted properly. It's still very much a work in progress.

I'm not saying this is a recipe for success and god knows, I'm far from successful. But for many of us it just takes a lot more effort than we believe it should. There is, of course, no substitute for a good instructor if you can pull that off financially.

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1 hour ago, downbylaw11 said:

one can improve their swing all they want, but if the ball being in the way causes them to completely change it, then this is less of a swing problem, and more of a mental problem. just ask charles barkley.  my swing isnt that bad of course, and I've certainly made good swings before, especially with shorter clubs as i'm able to really feel the movements i'm trying to make.  with longer clubs it's definitely much more difficult to feel it.  also, no need for for subtle digs about practice swings not being good. I wish people could just take others word for it when they are confident that they know what theyre talking about.  i'm a pretty decent golfer in spite of the current issue im having. 

 

also, can anyone explain to me why my profile picture is of tom waits from what i assume is the movie 'down by law' which i've never seen.  my user name is derived from a 90's punk band of the same name.  did an admin give me that picture? or did the this site and all of its technical glory force it upon me based on my username? that would be somethin. 

The swing he is talking about improving is the one when a ball IS present. Of course there is merit to practice swings but to devote more time to a swing without a ball than with is a bit silly. 

Edited by Grizvok

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50 minutes ago, Grizvok said:

Hmmm. While at the range today I gave this a try for a little bit and while it was pretty difficult for me to stop looking at the ball completely (I think my subconscious kept taking my eyes back there),

You quoted me from 2013. Not sure I would give the same advice ;) 

 

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Just now, saevel25 said:

You quoted me from 2013. Not sure I would give the same advice ;) 

 

What would 2k17 saevel say? Laser focus on the ball?

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4 minutes ago, Grizvok said:

What would 2k17 saevel say? Laser focus on the ball?

I would say it probably depends on the golfer. I would be more inclined to guide golfers to using video to help change their swing. That way they can develop their own swing feels that produce consistent swings. Also that the practice swing doesn't need to be exactly the same as the actual swing. 

When I practice swing I am either trying to get a feel that works for me, that I have worked on the range before. I will just make a few swings to stretch a bit. I am never searching for the perfect practice swing hoping to copy it. 

Edited by saevel25

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4 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I would say it probably depends on the golfer. I would be more inclined to guide golfers to using video to help change their swing. That way they can develop their own swing feels that produce consistent swings. Also that the practice swing doesn't need to be exactly the same as the actual swing. 

When I practice swing I am either trying to get a feel that works for me, that I have worked on the range before. I will just make a few swings to stretch a bit. I am never searching for the perfect practice swing hoping to copy it. 

Hmm videoing and taking notes of how I strike the ball when using different focal points is something that never really crossed my mind to try. I guess today perhaps being the first time I made conscious effort to experiment with changing that up.

Edited by Grizvok

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29 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I have suffered from this for longer than I'd like to admit. While my practice swing was/is far from good, it's much better than when hitting at a ball. But I'm starting to see a very faint light at the end of a very long tunnel.

This is what helped me....

  • I picked what I thought was the biggest difference between my practice swing and the real one. In my case, my weight shifted pretty well on my practice swing but stayed back while swinging at a ball. There were/are a lot of other issues, but that's what I decided was the biggest problem and the one I had the hardest time fixing.
  • I really slowed down and shortened the swing to try and develop the feel for the move while hitting a ball.
  • Even though I was hitting a ball, I had to really focus on the move. This was the hardest part and it will likely be the hardest part for others struggling with this. Not caring about contact is very difficult but absolutely necessary, IMO. I'm just not wired that way or something. You've got to have faith that good contact will be the easy part once you get that priority piece to feel a bit more natural. Just don't lose your focus and try to improve contact too soon.
  • Once I was able to accomplish the priority piece to where it felt a bit closer to natural with the slow, partial swing, I'd begin to lengthen my backswing. I would often fail at this point and have to go back to half swings. It was frustrating because during many of the practices, it felt like I'd never get it. 

I started this last fall and worked on it throughout the winter and spring. I should have taken video throughout that time but didn't. At some point in the early spring, something clicked and I felt like my full swings at a ball were much closer to my practice swings. I took video and there was some improvement. I lose it on the course all the time and revert to leaving my weight back, but at the same time, there are many swings on the course where I've felt that weight shifted properly. It's still very much a work in progress.

I'm not saying this is a recipe for success and god knows, I'm far from successful. But for many of us it just takes a lot more effort than we believe it should. There is, of course, no substitute for a good instructor if you can pull that off financially.

great post.

 

I'd love to run over some things with an instructor, but I'd need to look around and find one that comes highly recommended.  unfortunately golf instructors are about as common as McDojos for martial arts and most end up trying to turn you into adam scott, instead of turning YOU into a better version of yourself, if you know what im sayin?

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1 minute ago, Grizvok said:

Hmm videoing and taking notes of how I strike the ball when using different focal points is something that never really crossed my mind to try. I guess today perhaps being the first time I made conscious effort to experiment with changing that up.

That isn't the conclusion that you should draw from what I sad. By saying, depends on the golfer, I mean that a golfer might not even need to worry about changing what they are already focusing on. They probably need to work on something else entirely. 

By using video I mean getting instruction on what single priority piece you need to work on and use video to support your practice. That way you can make sure you are developing the correct feels and motions necessary to change the swing for the better.

 

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